Gose critique, please.

[Vikings]

All Grain
4.5lbs white wheat
4.0lbs of German Pilsner
0.75lb of flaked barley
15g of Sea Salt (10 min)
20g of fresh ground coriander (10 min)
0.5oz Sorachi Ace (20 min)
0.5oz Sorachi Ace (flame out or dry hop)
Wyeast 3068
Lacto starter

The plan is to mash and do a short boil (10 min) to kill the wild bugs. Next allow to cool to 100F, and then pitch the lacto. Give this several days to sour at 100F, then do the primary boil with the rest of the ingredients outlined above. Pitch the yeast at and maintain temp at 65F. Finally bottle condition when finished. Any thoughts? This will be my first beer. I've done several wines and a couple of meads, but beer is a different animal. Thoughts, advise, and/or critique of the recipe is welcome!

Will I need rice hulls?

 

[Thorpe429]

Don't boil initially to kill everything. If you want to do no boil, you just need to get temp up to 180-200 (I can find the right temperature when not on my phone), as getting up to boiling and doing so for such a short time produces the DMS precursor and you could end up with a beer with a nice canned corn flavor.

It's possible this would later be eliminated by the full boil, but I'm not certain, and wouldn't want to take chances with that.


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[Thorpe429]

I've looked around a bit and I think what you need to do is never let it get above 180 F, or do a full boil. DMS is created from SMM (which is present in all malt) and this starts to happen at 180 and any DMS that is created above 180 needs to be boiled off.

This is all based off of Internet research, but I will say that I do no boil Berliners where I mash around 150 and mash out at 170 straight into the kettle and cooler from there, and have never had noticeable DMS in any Berliner I've done.

EDIT: This post indicates a conversion temperature of 176 F: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/dms-where-does-140f-come-132559/#post1501662


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[Vikings]

Thanks for the input! Maybe I'll try to hold it around 160 to pasteurize.

Has anyone done a gose and have any thoughts about the recipe?

 

[bovineblitz]

Why flameout/dry hop it? That seems counter to the style.

 

[TimT]

Have you considered that "less is more"? You are making a hefeweizen american salty sour coriander beer not a gose.
I did the recipe from brewing with wheat, with the salt toned down (40g) and it was quite good but salty. 15g should be enough to be noticeable but for sure not too much.

 

[bovineblitz]

Have you considered that "less is more"? You are making a hefeweizen american salty sour coriander beer not a gose.
I did the recipe from brewing with wheat, with the salt toned down (40g) and it was quite good but salty. 15g should be enough to be noticeable but for sure not too much.

How much salt to use is going to be dependent on your water. Personally I add a conservative estimate of the amount I think I'm going to need at the end of the boil, and add more at bottling if necessary.

Ground coriander might overdo it, usually cracked is the way to go.

 

[metic]

I made the Gose in Brewing with Wheat, added the specified amount of salt, and liked the result. That recipe is definitely for a salty beer, which can seem strange at first and takes some getting used to. I like Kristen England's description of it: "it should remind you of a lunch of crusty bread eaten besides the ocean"

The gose you can get in Leipzig these days, at least at Bayrischer Bahnhof, does not taste at all salty.

 

[duboman]

I use 20-25 grams sea salt and it's perfect for my 5.5 gallon batch.

No late addition hops are needed and not to style, hop aroma should be low to none, it just need a bittering charge to balance

There is no need to boil before the lacto, chill to 80-100, pitch the lacto and cover the kettle with Saran Wrap, leave sit 24-48 hours to sour and then proceed with traditional boil and ingredients.


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[Vikings]

I went with the late additions because the Sorachi ace is supposed to lend a lemony/citrusy flavor more than a traditional hop bitterness and aroma. According to beersmith it would put me around 15 IBU , where a 60 and 39 addition would put me at like 50 IBU.(Sorachi has a lot of bitter I guess) That being said, I have 0 experience with what hops bring to the beer and when. Does anyone here have experience with this specific hop?

 

[duboman]

Personally I think you're trying to do too much with an old style, relatively rare style of beer.

The Gose I brew is with Hibiscus flowers to add some floral aroma but my hops are strictly Noble and only for a small bittering charge.

I think the beer is really about the salt and sour balance but don't let me detract you from experimenting just my .02



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[Vikings]

It is why I ask! I appreciate the input. Here's what I'm thinking, going with the less is more theory. .25 oz at 30 min, and .25 at 15. That brings the IBU from 15 to 12ish, and will decrease the hop aroma while maybe still getting some of the citrus flavor that I thought would go we'll with the salt and coriander. That also leaves me with half an ounce to play with in another project.

 

[Majafoo]

20g coriander is too much imo. I use 14g in my wit sometimes and that's already pretty powerful. I would recommend dropping it down to about 10g.

Playing with hops and lacto is risky business as well, they REALLY don't like hops. I'm pretty sure you're supposed to aim for about 10 IBU max.

 

[Vikings]

20g coriander is too much imo. I use 14g in my wit sometimes and that's already pretty powerful. I would recommend dropping it down to about 10g.

Playing with hops and lacto is risky business as well, they REALLY don't like hops. I'm pretty sure you're supposed to aim for about 10 IBU max.

Ok, I'll add 14 and give it a taste. Measure twice and cut once, right? Lol. I'm doing the lacto fermentation prior to the boil, so while the bugs are working there will be 0 hops.

 

[timos]

Sounds really neat. How did the brewing go? Will you be bottling this soon?

 

[TheCanisDirus]

Also very interested to see how this turned out. I've been wanted to brew a Gose and was concerned with dialing in the amount of salt.

 

[Vikings]

This turned out pretty good, just below great. I learned a couple of things. 1. 14g of salt was too much. I think 10-12g would be fine (starting at 10). 2. It gets more salty as it dries out, so you can't trust the original tasting. 3. You have to either not boil after the lactobacillus fermentation or add in some DME to bring the gravity up to replace what the lactobacillus fermented (which is what I did.) otherwise you'll end up with a 3% beer.

This beer is very sour, not quite Oude Tart sour, but sour and refreshing. It was a great hit at a recent weekend BBQ. I'm going to give it another shot in a couple of weeks with less salt. I salvaged some yeast cake and lacto.

 

[italarican]

Happy to see another homebrewing take a crack at gose. Glad you enjoyed it!

Interesting r.e the amount of salt. I have a gose in secondary that I'm about to bottle. I used twice that amount of sea salt (0.2 oz per gallon = about 28g for 5 gallons) and find it perfect. I was aiming more for the level of salinity in Westbrook Gose. To each their own!

 

[Vikings]

I think that a little body can cover up a lot of salt. I recently had one made with 3oz for 5 gallons that was definitely more salty than mine, but it also had a lot more residual sugar so the salt wasn't as startling. Mine fermented down to 1.000 and his was around 1.010. I like mine more, it's very refreshing and tart, but if I could tone down the salt and sour a tad I think it'd an exceptional hot weather drink. I'm about to do a supplication clone, but once that is a aging away in a carboy I'm going to take another shot at the gose.

The only gose I've had to compare it to is the Leipziger Gose from Gasthaus & Gosebrauerei Bayerischer Bahnhof. Mine is about three times as sour and twice as salty.

 

[tootal]

That's a helluva place to start brewing at!

As far as Gose is concerned, I just returned from a 4 country, 11 city beer tour of Europe and we did make it to Leipzig. We went to both brewery's there and one of them had a special Gose that was fantastic yet all of those tasted didn't have any salt taste. In fact I thought they were very close to a Berliner Weisse. Enjoyed them just the same and good luck dialing in your recipe!

 

[dantheman13]

I think that a little body can cover up a lot of salt. I recently had one made with 3oz for 5 gallons that was definitely more salty than mine, but it also had a lot more residual sugar so the salt wasn't as startling. Mine fermented down to 1.000 and his was around 1.010. I like mine more, it's very refreshing and tart, but if I could tone down the salt and sour a tad I think it'd an exceptional hot weather drink. I'm about to do a supplication clone, but once that is a aging away in a carboy I'm going to take another shot at the gose.

The only gose I've had to compare it to is the Leipziger Gose from Gasthaus & Gosebrauerei Bayerischer Bahnhof. Mine is about three times as sour and twice as salty.

Makes sense based on my experience with sour beers and too much water salts! I went crazy with my water salts on a wee heavy, and didn't realize it because of the heavy malt profile. I used the same exact recipe for a sour brown ale. 2 months into the fermentation I tasted it and it tasted like it had been brewed with sea water.

Interestingly enough, after another 3 months of aging, the saltiness went away completely in the sour brown ale. I don't know why.