Long time reader, first time posting
Ok, to start with, this is an ongoing issue and as I've tried to work through it I've probably read through every posting online related to keg foam issues, pressure issues, keg balancing, etc. I've been brewing for about 2 years, just bought my first keg setup back in December. Since then I've had 6 batches of beer in the keg with varying results, but the consistent issue I've had with every batch has been excessive amounts of foam. In all this time (and through almost 20 gallons of beer) I've had maybe 2-3 decent pours out of the keg.
The Details
The keg is a 3 gallon AMCYL type with ball-lock posts. I have a 5lb CO2 tank with a Taprite Dual-Gauge regulator mounted to it and high quality SS fittings at the connection to the disconnect. Disconnects are both the plastic type, not sure if there is a better variety. On the beverage side I've currently got 10' of 3/16 ID beverage tubing to a cobra tap. The whole setup currently sits in a high quality JennAir Refridgerator with a built in thermostat set to 33F. In a previous apartment I had the keg in a crappy old fridge (and assumed lack of consistent temps contributed to foaming) but diligently tried multiple temperature settings from 31F-37F with fairly consistent (read: foamy) results. These temps were measured in fridge with a wine thermometer in a glass of water. I've also tried my digital thermometer and now have a thermometer with a digital reading in the fridge.
As far as equipment details go that's about it, except to say I typically ferment in a glass carboy, have dry-hopped most of the beers going into the keg (and have definitely had a significant amount of hop particles in there in several batches). You should also know I am in Vancouver Canada, basically at sea level. Also, after each keg kicks I have taken the whole thing apart, soaked in PBW, cleaned out all poppets and disconnects, run PBW through hoses, then flushed with water and then StarSan.
Foam Description
Most batches, when everything is set up nicely, I'm not getting bubbles visible in the line, but the beer coming out of the tap foams up fast enough that by the time my glass is full (typically drink out of 500ml stemless wine glasses) it is 3/4 foam. When the foam settles I end up with half a glass of beer, usually still with a good amount of carbonation. On occasion, I have had trouble with foam appearing in the line (ie CO2 coming out of solution) - usually because I have gotten frustrated and started messing with my regulator trying to get a good pour. Foam appearance has varied from "normal" looking, to soapy or creamy on some batches, to big bubbles on freshly carbed batches done the shaking method.
Troubeshooting
Balancing - so based on everything I encountered online when I first had trouble, my first expectation was that my system was not balanced. I increased my line length initially from about 4ft (what I was sold at the LHBS) to about 8ft. This did not appear to make a hint of a difference. My first couple of kegs were carbed the set-and-forget method at 12psi. With these settings, the beer was still rocketing out of the tap, even with 8ft of line. Ultimately I bought 12ft of line, but still had foam issues. Beer would rocket out of tap and immediately foam like crazy.
One thing I discovered early on was how easily the poppets clog with hop material. After the second batch, cleaning poppets I found a huge amount of hop material jamming the poppet on the liquid out line. After this experience I made a concerted effort to limit hop material in the keg, mainly being more careful with racking and even clamping a fine nylon hop bag over the end of the tube when racking into the keg. I've had a variety of beer in there, from cloudy and full of hops to clear beer, either way I had massive foam with every pour.
After the ruling out hop material as the foam catalyst, I wondered if somehow I had a leak in the system. However, after spraying it all down with starsan on several occasions, and no sign of loss of pressure over time, this does not appear to be the problem.
After the first 3 batches I trimmed the liquid out back to about 10'. Mainly because when I did have foam in the line it seemed to make it worse, and didn't seem to make any difference in terms of pour velocity anyhow. Rocketing no matter what. I started rather to turn down my regulators pressure - first to ten, then 8, then 6, then down lower and lower. Unfortunately at these pressures I start to lose a lot of accuracy, as the needle seems to get jammed when the pressure is below about 8.
The last batch, I force carbed at a regulator reading of 6 psi. Gave it some light shaking, refilled head space at 6 psi, more light shaking, then hooked it up. I actually got some decent pours that first evening. As the batch has matured, it seemed to get more and more carbonated. I mean, I go to breweries all the time, and I seldom encounter beer as carbonated as what I am getting. At 6 psi. It comes out at a reasonable rate at 6 psi - still pretty fast - but tends to foam up at least 60/40 foam to beer. Usually worse.
I've read all about how opening the fridge alot can cause foam. Obviously a keg in the main house fridge is not ideal (ask my wife!) but surely it should still be functional beyond what I am getting. Keg, CO2 tank and line are all in the fridge, kept at a relatively constant 33F.
I'm literally at a loss. I've searched out tons of forum posts. It seems like everyone has trouble initially balancing their system, but then they hit the sweet spot and have good pours. I read about people force carbing at 30 psi, serving at 10-12psi, and I literally cannot believe it based on my experiences. Please, please somebody help! I love the convenience of kegging over bottling, having beer on hand at all times. It's great. But I need to be able to pour a decent glass! I want to upgrade to a dedicated fridge with flow control taps, but I'm afraid I'll drop another couple hundred bucks and still have endless foam. What am I doing wrong? Is my regulator broken? I've talked to the guy who sold it to me, he isn't much help (ie not an expert)... I have no way to prove it doesn't work and it's been used for like 6 months now.
Final Thoughts
Beyond what I've mentioned above, I've got a number of potential theories, but it would be great if someone has had a similar experience and can speak to how they solved it.
- As a person with a reasoned approach, I am not inclined to blame a relatively foolproof, brand-new piece of equipment, however it really does seem odd that my regulator shows 6 psi with excessively carbed and overly foamy beer. Right? Has anyone else encountered this? I've searched forums for regulator issues but haven't come across this (ie low reading, high output);
- Do smaller kegs skew the numbers? Ie the 3 gallon keg is shorter than a standard corny, the dip tube is shorter; does it take less pressure or longer lines to balance the system? I really don't want to have 20' of beverage line in the fridge, but will try it if people think that really is the issue;
- Cobra taps suck. Even when I do have reasonable pours, the end of the pour always adds a bit of extra foam, no matter how hard I try to quickly release the lever. Can someone please invent a better cobra tap! And maybe a better liquid disconnect system that doesn't jam with hop material... I'd pay to upgrade. As mentioned, I plan to upgrade to Perlick flow control tap in a dedicated beer fridge... But suspect I will still get massive foam unless I can find the root problem here.
- One other thing: the high pressure gauge on the reg that is supposed to indicate an empty tank has never once read over 500. With a full tank outside the fridge (ie warmed up) it has shown a reading just above the red area (never in the green). On the first tank, when it ran out, it indicated empty for ages before it finally kicked. Are the gauges directly related?
Ok, that's it. Any help, sympathy, information or similar experiences welcome. Sorry for the novel.
Regards;
Ok, to start with, this is an ongoing issue and as I've tried to work through it I've probably read through every posting online related to keg foam issues, pressure issues, keg balancing, etc. I've been brewing for about 2 years, just bought my first keg setup back in December. Since then I've had 6 batches of beer in the keg with varying results, but the consistent issue I've had with every batch has been excessive amounts of foam. In all this time (and through almost 20 gallons of beer) I've had maybe 2-3 decent pours out of the keg.
The Details
The keg is a 3 gallon AMCYL type with ball-lock posts. I have a 5lb CO2 tank with a Taprite Dual-Gauge regulator mounted to it and high quality SS fittings at the connection to the disconnect. Disconnects are both the plastic type, not sure if there is a better variety. On the beverage side I've currently got 10' of 3/16 ID beverage tubing to a cobra tap. The whole setup currently sits in a high quality JennAir Refridgerator with a built in thermostat set to 33F. In a previous apartment I had the keg in a crappy old fridge (and assumed lack of consistent temps contributed to foaming) but diligently tried multiple temperature settings from 31F-37F with fairly consistent (read: foamy) results. These temps were measured in fridge with a wine thermometer in a glass of water. I've also tried my digital thermometer and now have a thermometer with a digital reading in the fridge.
As far as equipment details go that's about it, except to say I typically ferment in a glass carboy, have dry-hopped most of the beers going into the keg (and have definitely had a significant amount of hop particles in there in several batches). You should also know I am in Vancouver Canada, basically at sea level. Also, after each keg kicks I have taken the whole thing apart, soaked in PBW, cleaned out all poppets and disconnects, run PBW through hoses, then flushed with water and then StarSan.
Foam Description
Most batches, when everything is set up nicely, I'm not getting bubbles visible in the line, but the beer coming out of the tap foams up fast enough that by the time my glass is full (typically drink out of 500ml stemless wine glasses) it is 3/4 foam. When the foam settles I end up with half a glass of beer, usually still with a good amount of carbonation. On occasion, I have had trouble with foam appearing in the line (ie CO2 coming out of solution) - usually because I have gotten frustrated and started messing with my regulator trying to get a good pour. Foam appearance has varied from "normal" looking, to soapy or creamy on some batches, to big bubbles on freshly carbed batches done the shaking method.
Troubeshooting
Balancing - so based on everything I encountered online when I first had trouble, my first expectation was that my system was not balanced. I increased my line length initially from about 4ft (what I was sold at the LHBS) to about 8ft. This did not appear to make a hint of a difference. My first couple of kegs were carbed the set-and-forget method at 12psi. With these settings, the beer was still rocketing out of the tap, even with 8ft of line. Ultimately I bought 12ft of line, but still had foam issues. Beer would rocket out of tap and immediately foam like crazy.
One thing I discovered early on was how easily the poppets clog with hop material. After the second batch, cleaning poppets I found a huge amount of hop material jamming the poppet on the liquid out line. After this experience I made a concerted effort to limit hop material in the keg, mainly being more careful with racking and even clamping a fine nylon hop bag over the end of the tube when racking into the keg. I've had a variety of beer in there, from cloudy and full of hops to clear beer, either way I had massive foam with every pour.
After the ruling out hop material as the foam catalyst, I wondered if somehow I had a leak in the system. However, after spraying it all down with starsan on several occasions, and no sign of loss of pressure over time, this does not appear to be the problem.
After the first 3 batches I trimmed the liquid out back to about 10'. Mainly because when I did have foam in the line it seemed to make it worse, and didn't seem to make any difference in terms of pour velocity anyhow. Rocketing no matter what. I started rather to turn down my regulators pressure - first to ten, then 8, then 6, then down lower and lower. Unfortunately at these pressures I start to lose a lot of accuracy, as the needle seems to get jammed when the pressure is below about 8.
The last batch, I force carbed at a regulator reading of 6 psi. Gave it some light shaking, refilled head space at 6 psi, more light shaking, then hooked it up. I actually got some decent pours that first evening. As the batch has matured, it seemed to get more and more carbonated. I mean, I go to breweries all the time, and I seldom encounter beer as carbonated as what I am getting. At 6 psi. It comes out at a reasonable rate at 6 psi - still pretty fast - but tends to foam up at least 60/40 foam to beer. Usually worse.
I've read all about how opening the fridge alot can cause foam. Obviously a keg in the main house fridge is not ideal (ask my wife!) but surely it should still be functional beyond what I am getting. Keg, CO2 tank and line are all in the fridge, kept at a relatively constant 33F.
I'm literally at a loss. I've searched out tons of forum posts. It seems like everyone has trouble initially balancing their system, but then they hit the sweet spot and have good pours. I read about people force carbing at 30 psi, serving at 10-12psi, and I literally cannot believe it based on my experiences. Please, please somebody help! I love the convenience of kegging over bottling, having beer on hand at all times. It's great. But I need to be able to pour a decent glass! I want to upgrade to a dedicated fridge with flow control taps, but I'm afraid I'll drop another couple hundred bucks and still have endless foam. What am I doing wrong? Is my regulator broken? I've talked to the guy who sold it to me, he isn't much help (ie not an expert)... I have no way to prove it doesn't work and it's been used for like 6 months now.
Final Thoughts
Beyond what I've mentioned above, I've got a number of potential theories, but it would be great if someone has had a similar experience and can speak to how they solved it.
- As a person with a reasoned approach, I am not inclined to blame a relatively foolproof, brand-new piece of equipment, however it really does seem odd that my regulator shows 6 psi with excessively carbed and overly foamy beer. Right? Has anyone else encountered this? I've searched forums for regulator issues but haven't come across this (ie low reading, high output);
- Do smaller kegs skew the numbers? Ie the 3 gallon keg is shorter than a standard corny, the dip tube is shorter; does it take less pressure or longer lines to balance the system? I really don't want to have 20' of beverage line in the fridge, but will try it if people think that really is the issue;
- Cobra taps suck. Even when I do have reasonable pours, the end of the pour always adds a bit of extra foam, no matter how hard I try to quickly release the lever. Can someone please invent a better cobra tap! And maybe a better liquid disconnect system that doesn't jam with hop material... I'd pay to upgrade. As mentioned, I plan to upgrade to Perlick flow control tap in a dedicated beer fridge... But suspect I will still get massive foam unless I can find the root problem here.
- One other thing: the high pressure gauge on the reg that is supposed to indicate an empty tank has never once read over 500. With a full tank outside the fridge (ie warmed up) it has shown a reading just above the red area (never in the green). On the first tank, when it ran out, it indicated empty for ages before it finally kicked. Are the gauges directly related?
Ok, that's it. Any help, sympathy, information or similar experiences welcome. Sorry for the novel.
Regards;
