East Coast v. West Coast IPA recipe needed

[hennesse]

I need ideas for an IPA recipe that will best display the differences between (a) WLP001 California Ale yeast, and (b) WLP008 East Coast Ale yeast.

Remember in high school they taught us "only change one variable at a time"? I brew 10 gallon batches that get split into two 5 gallon carboys - this gives me the opportunity to compare the effect of two different yeasts on an otherwise identical recipe.

But what should that recipe be? Will the yeasts show a marked difference with a simple IPA recipe that's low IBU? High IBU? One of those lazy/hazy/juicy IPAs (which I'm not overly fond of). Something in-between? I'm easy - tell me what to brew and I'll do it!

Here are the available puzzle pieces:
Briess 2-row, Rahr 2-row, Maris Otter, Golden Promise
Caramel 20, 60 and Cara-Pils, Munich, Vienna, Victory
Non-barley malts and flaked grains - I can get nearby
Amarillo, Azacca, Cascade, Cashmere, Citra, Fuggles

What can we concoct that will make these yeasts show their true colors?

 

[Dgallo]

I need ideas for an IPA recipe that will best display the differences between (a) WLP001 California Ale yeast, and (b) WLP008 East Coast Ale yeast.

Remember in high school they taught us "only change one variable at a time"? I brew 10 gallon batches that get split into two 5 gallon carboys - this gives me the opportunity to compare the effect of two different yeasts on an otherwise identical recipe.

But what should that recipe be? Will the yeasts show a marked difference with a simple IPA recipe that's low IBU? High IBU? One of those lazy/hazy/juicy IPAs (which I'm not overly fond of). Something in-between? I'm easy - tell me what to brew and I'll do it!

Here are the available puzzle pieces:
Briess 2-row, Rahr 2-row, Maris Otter, Golden Promise
Caramel 20, 60 and Cara-Pils, Munich, Vienna, Victory
Non-barley malts and flaked grains - I can get nearby
Amarillo, Azacca, Cascade, Cashmere, Citra, Fuggles

What can we concoct that will make these yeasts show their true colors?

Well the yeast won’t make the major difference between an NEIPA vs. WCIPA, I actually make plenty NEIPAS with Chico yeast. Grain bill, hopping schedule, and water profile will be far more indicative of what makes them different. If I’m you I’m going back to the drawing board for your experiment

 

[hennesse]

Well the yeast won’t make the major difference between an NEIPA vs. WCIPA, I actually make plenty NEIPAS with Chico yeast. Grain bill, hopping schedule, and water profile will be far more indicative of what makes them different. If I’m you I’m going back to the drawing board for your experiment

Perhaps I did not make myself clear. I know the yeast is NOT the difference between a NEIPA and a WCIPA.

OK. I recently made a 10-gal split-batch of "Azanook" - an IPA with Chinook bittering hops and Azacca flavor/aroma hops. One 5-gal fermenter ("US") used WLP001 California Ale yeast, and the other 5-gal fermenter ("UK") used WLP002 English Ale yeast. I didn't spend a lot of time word-smithing, but the "UK" was much smoother than the "US", and I drank it 3 times as fast! The next time I make a similar recipe, I'll use WLP002.

The idea here is to follow the scientific method and do an experiment CHANGING ONLY ONE VARIABLE - the yeast strain - and observe what difference (if any) it makes.

White Labs, and Wyeast, each make about 50 different yeast strains. You can follow the same recipe, changing only the yeast strain, and obtain 50 different beers. It may be that you can't tell the difference between all 50, or it might be that one tastes particularly good - or particularly bad - but you don't know until you try.

-----
Another comparison I make with the split-batches is dry-hopping. I make one 10-gal batch of beer, and split it at the dry-hopping stage. One 5-gallon keg gets dry-hopped with Cascade, while the other 5-gallon keg gets dry-hopped with Citra. Which one tastes better?

Inquiring minds want to know...
Dave

 

[Kickass]

You’ve set some challenging constraints. The differences between those beer styles are vast and, quite frankly, the task is impossible if you don’t change more than one variable. You can change one variable but you won’t have both a NEIPA and WCIPA.

 

[shoreman]

That’s going to be difficult as others have mentioned.

For instance, I’ve been using the West Coast IPA strain this year for all of my hazy NewEnglands. That’s a super clean yeast that flocs really well - but I get a nice hazy with adjuncts & large dry hop.

On the flipside, I’ve made an amazingly clear Mild with the Alchemist Vermont strain. That beer had no adjuncts and little hops - dropped clear in 2 weeks.

If you wanted to compare Belgian IPA to West Coast with yeast, you’d have a better shot.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I need ideas for an IPA recipe that will best display the differences between (a) WLP001 California Ale yeast, and (b) WLP008 East Coast Ale yeast.

What are the known, stated, or claimed differences between the two strains of yeast? What style / recipe would work well help confirm (or challenge) those statements?

You could use the descriptions here:

• WLP001 California Ale Yeast® | White Labs
• WLP008 East Coast Ale Yeast | White Labs

as a starting point, then identify a recipe / style that would show those differences.

 

[AMessenger]

How about 2, 1 gal malt only beers, fermented with each of these. It won’t necessarily be something you’d want to drink much of but will make any differences between the two clear

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Basic Brewing Radio™ 2019 - February 14, 2019 - Golden Ale Yeast Experiment

Kyle Swallow of Twin Lakes Homebrew Club and Rapps Barren Brewing in Mountain Home, Arkansas, talks about an experiment fermenting one Golden Ale wort with 13 different yeasts.

 

[Dgallo]

Perhaps I did not make myself clear. I know the yeast is NOT the difference between a NEIPA and a WCIPA.

OK. I recently made a 10-gal split-batch of "Azanook" - an IPA with Chinook bittering hops and Azacca flavor/aroma hops. One 5-gal fermenter ("US") used WLP001 California Ale yeast, and the other 5-gal fermenter ("UK") used WLP002 English Ale yeast. I didn't spend a lot of time word-smithing, but the "UK" was much smoother than the "US", and I drank it 3 times as fast! The next time I make a similar recipe, I'll use WLP002.

The idea here is to follow the scientific method and do an experiment CHANGING ONLY ONE VARIABLE - the yeast strain - and observe what difference (if any) it makes.

White Labs, and Wyeast, each make about 50 different yeast strains. You can follow the same recipe, changing only the yeast strain, and obtain 50 different beers. It may be that you can't tell the difference between all 50, or it might be that one tastes particularly good - or particularly bad - but you don't know until you try.

-----
Another comparison I make with the split-batches is dry-hopping. I make one 10-gal batch of beer, and split it at the dry-hopping stage. One 5-gallon keg gets dry-hopped with Cascade, while the other 5-gallon keg gets dry-hopped with Citra. Which one tastes better?

Inquiring minds want to know...
Dave

So you can certainly do that. You will find yeast can dramatically effect final flavor and body of a beer. For the beers you were dividing, 002 is a higher floccing and lower attenuating yeast in comparison to 001 so that why you noticed the difference in mouthfeel/body. If I took a guess the one with 002 finished about 2-4 points higher than the 001 beer. If I were you I would just do smash beers for this experiment. You’ll cut out a lot of extraneous variables

 

[VikeMan]

For the beers you were dividing, 002 is a lower floccing and lower attenuation yeast in comparison to 001 so that why you noticed the difference in mouthfeel or body.

I'm guessing you meant "higher floccing." WLP002 is arguably the most flocculent strain on the planet.

 

[Dgallo]

I'm guessing you meant "higher floccing." WLP002 is arguably the most flocculent strain on the planet.

Yep lol high floccing and lower attenuating is what I meant to say

 

[bobeer]

If youre going for the yeast profile only id keep it a simple grist. Straight up basemalt or maybe a dash of crystal for some flavor and keep the mash on the lower side to get a drier beer. Maybe even keep it to a smash beer to let the yeast shine as much as possible. Some yeast can bring out the hop profile so id keep the hops to a minimum or just enough to make it to the style.

 

[eric19312]

Brew something you like. Ideally a repeat of a previous brew that you really enjoyed and pitch that side by side with the two different yeasts. You will have 10 gallons of this to drink no point in making something you don't care for for the sake of "science".

If you like both west coast and NEIPAs why not do the experiment twice? Make a west coast IPA wort and pitch both yeasts side by side. Then while you are evaluating/drinking that make a NEIPA wort and repeat.

I like the experimental design of filling two kegs and seeing which one kicks first. Just label them one and two and get some friends to help with the data collection. Don't tell your friends the variable being tested or even that there is a test. Just say its a couple slightly different IPAs try a flight and then help yourself to refills

 

[ejf063]

I do this all the time... And I found out how much I love 008 as a result. I agree if you keep it simple you'll have two vastly different beers.
For a recipe I would go 80% base malt to 20% wheat or oats. If you want it "cloudy" then drop the base 70% up the adjunct to 30%.
For the base, you could divide it between 2-row and one of the specialty mlats. Something like 55% 2-row, 25% Golden Promise, 20% wheat. I would bitter hop with Azacca to somewhere between 30-50 IBU then add Citra, Amarillo and Cascade (or a variety thereof) for flavor and aroma with additions from 10 minutes down to whirlpool.

Dry hop then with that hop combo towards the end of fermentation.

The 008 will not be cloudy AF but it will have haze and the 001 should be pretty clear. I do a blonde ale with 80% base to 20% wheat and depending on what is available, a California yeast strain. Turns out pretty clear.

 

[hennesse]

Thank you everybody for your suggestions. I adopted eric19312's suggestion of "Brew something you like" - that seems like a pretty sensible idea to me. I also adopted bobeer's suggestion of "keep it a simple grist".

Brew 54B will be called "East-WEST Highway". The name comes from MD Route 410 which runs through my former hometown of Bethesda, Maryland.

This IPA is pretty simple in every category. Hopefully, it will clearly show the differences between WLP001 and WLP008.

It'll take a couple weeks before I brew, then a month "in-process", and then a few weeks before I can get the results of eric19312's test, "filling two kegs and seeing which one kicks first". I'll report back then.

Thanks everyone!

22 lbs Brewers Malt 2-Row (Briess) (1.8 SRM)
1 lbs Caramel Malt - 60L (Briess) (60.0 SRM)
2.00 oz Azacca (2019) [12.70 %] - Boil 60.0 min
1.00 oz Citra (2017) [14.30 %] - Boil 30.0 min
1.00 oz Citra (2019) [13.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min
- split batch at fermentation -
1 pkg East Coast Ale (White Labs #WLP008)
1 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001)

 

[Kickass]

4 oz of hops for 10gals of IPA might be on the low side but that allows more room for yeast expression, your goal.