Verdant in American/West Coast IPA?

[slurms]

I've only used Verdant once in a hazy type of IPA, but somehow I have 6 packs of the yeast...

I'm making an American/West Coast (ish) IPA with the recipe below. I'd normally use US-05 for something like this, but since I have a bunch of Verdant, I thought maybe I'd use it here. Anyone have any experience with Verdant in a non-hazy/juicy type of an IPA? My guess is it'll turn out fine. Also, I've never made this beer before since I didn't have the hops I wanted so I just threw something together, so ultimately it probably doesn't matter, but any input would be appreciated.

Recipe:
12lb 2-Row
2lb Munich
.25lb Biscuit

Columbus bittering
Chinook/Idaho 7 end of boil
Columbus/amarillo hopstand and dryhop

 

[Dgallo]

I've only used Verdant once in a hazy type of IPA, but somehow I have 6 packs of the yeast...

I'm making an American/West Coast (ish) IPA with the recipe below. I'd normally use US-05 for something like this, but since I have a bunch of Verdant, I thought maybe I'd use it here. Anyone have any experience with Verdant in a non-hazy/juicy type of an IPA? My guess is it'll turn out fine. Also, I've never made this beer before since I didn't have the hops I wanted so I just threw something together, so ultimately it probably doesn't matter, but any input would be appreciated.

Recipe:
12lb 2-Row
2lb Munich
.25lb Biscuit

Columbus bittering
Chinook/Idaho 7 end of boil
Columbus/amarillo hopstand and dryhop

I personally wouldn’t use Verdant, it doesn’t attenuate enough for the style. Also too ester forward in my opinion but that could be personal preference.

 

[day_trippr]

I agree, I'd expect the finish to end up distinctly not "West Coast".
I'm a Chico fan for wcipas...

Cheers!

 

[slurms]

I'd agree with you guys. Although, I already rolled with the Verdant. I've always liked the hazy kinda beers that had a little classic IPA hops in it, so I'm hoping for the best. I'm sure it will not be the worst on-the-fly recipe I've made.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Look toward English IPA. Verdant is descended from London Ale III. Many UK beers are using New World hops these days.

 

[InspectorJon]

I don't know about Verdant specifically. I live in the Sacramento, California area. One of the larger breweries around here, Out of Bounds, told me they use LA III for their IPAs. They brew several clear, dry IPAs. My guess is one would have to mash for a very fermentable wort to get those results. Mash low and and maybe a little longer. As I understand it many breweries make various styles of beer using a single house yeast and varying other aspects of the brewing process.

 

[day_trippr]

I'd say 60% of what I've been brewing over the last four years has been pitched with LAIII but they were all neipas. Everything else gets pitched with some different strain for particular reasons: ~25% are Chico derivatives, 10% are Whitbread associated, and the last 5% random, including Westmalle originated wy3787. I can't see trying to do a dry wcipa with a strain known for decidedly "un-dry" beer...

Cheers!

 

[SanPancho]

I'd agree with you guys. Although, I already rolled with the Verdant. I've always liked the hazy kinda beers that had a little classic IPA hops in it, so I'm hoping for the best. I'm sure it will not be the worst on-the-fly recipe I've made.

so pitch some chico or other high attenuator with neutral profile in today. best of both worlds.

 

[slurms]

I guess when I said west coast I meant more in regards to the hops. The only thing is if the esters from the verdant compliment the hops or if it just is too opposing.

I'm thinking it'll turn out fine. Not worried about it but was just curious of people's thoughts, so thanks for that!

 

[Dgallo]

I guess when I said west coast I meant more in regards to the hops. The only thing is if the esters from the verdant compliment the hops or if it just is too opposing.

I'm thinking it'll turn out fine. Not worried about it but was just curious of people's thoughts, so thanks for that!

There is nothing wrong with what you did. As long as your strong with your skill and process, especially with fermentation and anti o2. it will make a fine beer.

People have such varying pedagogies for brewing. Some brew for the fun of it, some brewers just to say they made their own beer, some follow recipes, some build their own, some don’t care at all about style guidelines, and some brew directly to styles. And due to that, you will always get varied advice on any topic.

I will say the longer I’m in this hobby, the more I care about style guidelines and entering competitions.

 

[Beer-lord]

Look toward English IPA. Verdant is descended from London Ale III. Many UK beers are using New World hops these days.

^^^^^this!
It makes a tasty English IPA and while I agree with many of the other statements, I think many should try their normal WCIPA recipe and substitute the yeast with Verdant and I think you'll be happy with it.

 

[slurms]

For what it's worth, this beer turned out very good. Still a bit young but I'd make it again.

I have a hard time picking out any of the yeast attributes from the verdant. I'd need a side by side comparison with a Chico yeast to tell. But maybe it's because if fermented it lower around 62F

 

[Miraculix]

I've only used Verdant once in a hazy type of IPA, but somehow I have 6 packs of the yeast...

I'm making an American/West Coast (ish) IPA with the recipe below. I'd normally use US-05 for something like this, but since I have a bunch of Verdant, I thought maybe I'd use it here. Anyone have any experience with Verdant in a non-hazy/juicy type of an IPA? My guess is it'll turn out fine. Also, I've never made this beer before since I didn't have the hops I wanted so I just threw something together, so ultimately it probably doesn't matter, but any input would be appreciated.

Recipe:
12lb 2-Row
2lb Munich
.25lb Biscuit

Columbus bittering
Chinook/Idaho 7 end of boil
Columbus/amarillo hopstand and dryhop

I almost exclusively use Verdant for American hop forward ales nowadays. The specific yeast expression pairs perfectly with the American hops and leaves the impression of hop flavour enhancement.

Anything I would use us05 in is a candidate for verdant to me.

 

[alestateyall]

I almost exclusively use Verdant for American hop forward ales nowadays. The specific yeast expression pairs perfectly with the American hops and leaves the impression of hop flavour enhancement.

Anything I would use us05 in is a candidate for verdant to me.

I agree. I have used Verdant in lots of American hoppy beers; IPA, APA, Amber, and even a blonde ale. I think it is a great substitute for Chico. I think Verdant gives a nice crisp finish with pleasant, but mild fruity esters.

 

[Miraculix]

I agree. I have used Verdant in lots of American hoppy beers; IPA, APA, Amber, and even a blonde ale. I think it is a great substitute for Chico. I think Verdant gives a nice crisp finish with pleasant, but mild fruity esters.

I agree! But only in combination with American hops! With noble hops, it is a fruit basket bomb.

 

[day_trippr]

I agree! But only in combination with American hops! With noble hops, it is a fruit basket bomb.

How does that happen?

 

[alestateyall]

How does that happen?

Maybe the noble hops have less fruit character so the fruity esters are more noticeable? That’s interesting. I have only tried Verdant in American English recipes.

 

[morebeer]

I've been trying Verdant in all sorts of stuff lately. It just works. I recently made a West Coastish IPA with it and it tastes fantastic. The mouthfeel and soft fruity esters play well with American hops. Although it is not quite as clear as I would like, but that may have been from the dry hopping?

I've also made an American Amber and a Oat Stout with it recently. Both were great.

 

[Dgallo]

I've been trying Verdant in all sorts of stuff lately. It just works. I recently made a West Coastish IPA with it and it tastes fantastic. The mouthfeel and soft fruity esters play well with American hops. Although it is not quite as clear as I would like, but that may have been from the dry hopping?

I've also made an American Amber and a Oat Stout with it recently. Both were great.

verdant doesn’t have the attenuation for me to use it in anything other than hazies. Ambers or wc ipas I need far drier than what verdant can do

 

[Miraculix]

I love it in anything american hop related. For everything else, it is too overpowering for my tastebuds. The esters are STRONG with this one. These Esters go really well with american Hops but do not work well wih anything else. My yeast of choice for everything American!

verdant doesn’t have attenuation for me to use it in anything other than hazies. Ambers or wc ipas I need far drier than what verdant can do

Have you tried a hoch kurz mash schedule? 30 minutes at 62 C and 30 minutes at 72 C? I mainly brew sub 5% beers, so the attenuation is not as critical here as with stronger beers...

 

[Dgallo]

I love it in anything american hop related. For everything else, it is too overpowering for my tastebuds. The esters are STRONG with this one. These Esters go really well with american Hops but do not work well wih anything else. My yeast of choice for everything American!



Have you tried a hoch kurz mash schedule? 30 minutes at 62 C and 30 minutes at 72 C? I mainly brew sub 5% beers, so the attenuation is not as critical here as with stronger beers...

I do some step mashing but not at the same rests. Verdant only gives me 75ish attenuation. Sometimes 78

 

[natmartin]

I used Verdant in an IPA that was designed as a west-coast. Came out delicious, great esters and hop character, getting lots of compliments on it. However, despite the use of Clearzyme, Silafine, and a good cold crash, it's never cleared. So if that's something you need in a west coast, try a different yeast. If you don't care about some haze, go for it!

 

[Dgallo]

I used Verdant in an IPA that was designed as a west-coast. Came out delicious, great esters and hop character, getting lots of compliments on it. However, despite the use of Clearzyme, Silafine, and a good cold crash, it's never cleared. So if that's something you need in a west coast, try a different yeast. If you don't care about some haze, go for it!

It’s the finish as to why I wouldn’t use it for a West coast ipa. They really should finish around 1.012 -1.008

 

[natmartin]

It’s the finish as to why I wouldn’t use it for a West coast ipa. They really should finish around 1.012 -1.008

That worked out fine for me. OG 1.060, FG 1.011, 81% Apparent Attenuation.

 

[Dgallo]

That worked out fine for me. OG 1.060, FG 1.011, 81% Apparent Attenuation.

That’s really good attenuation for verdant. I haven’t seen that unfortunately when using it

 

[morebeer]

Mine finished right at 1.010

 

[Dgallo]

Mine finished right at 1.010

How low was your og?

 

[Miraculix]

That’s really good attenuation for verdant. I haven’t seen that unfortunately when using it

I also usually get something around 77%, +- a bit.

 

[morebeer]

How low was your og?

I think it was 1.056

 

[hiphoppotamuss]

I used it in an IPA with 93% pale ale malt 4% Carapils and 3% Caramel 10L. All Centennial for bittering, aroma and dry hop. Fermented at 65F. 80% Attenuation.

I thought it was absolutely fantastic. Dry, hoppy and fruity. My wife, however, hated it. She said “there’s a weird aftertaste to it” which, I assume was the added, fruitiness contributed by the Verdant? I would definitely brew it again… and not share…

 

[AlcheMania]

First time Verdant user here.
Im looking to work some Verdant into West Coast ish IPA (English Base, English yeast, old skool West Coast IPA hops) im already very happy with WLP007 as the yeast for this recipe but thought i could sprinkle maybe 1/3 pack (3.6g) of verdant onto a fresh spent Brit Bitter yeast cake prior to topping with the wort this time. Just a touch of that tropical ester character would be a nice addition me thinks.

 

[Miraculix]

First time Verdant user here.
Im looking to work some Verdant into West Coast ish IPA (English Base, English yeast, old skool West Coast IPA hops) im already very happy with WLP007 as the yeast for this recipe but thought i could sprinkle maybe 1/3 pack (3.6g) of verdant onto a fresh spent Brit Bitter yeast cake prior to topping with the wort this time. Just a touch of that tropical ester character would be a nice addition me thinks.

With American hops you can go all Verdant. No need to cut it.

 

[AlcheMania]

With American hops you can go all Verdant. No need to cut it.

Im already using a spent wlp 007 cake for the IPA that ive had great results with and lookin to add a little tropical from the verdant addition. Plus the 007 flocs like a champ unlike the verdant that ive read permahazes with dry hopping.

 

[AlcheMania]

Im already using a spent wlp 007 cake for the IPA that ive had great results with and lookin to add a little tropical from the verdant addition. Plus the 007 flocs like a champ unlike the verdant that ive read permahazes with dry hopping.

Vitals​

Original Gravity: 1.064
Final Gravity: 1.013
IBU (Tinseth): 45
BU/GU: 0.71
Color: 12.5 SRM

Mash​

Strike Temp — 157.3 °F
Temperature — 150 °F — 30 min
Temperature — 152 °F — 10 min
Temperature — 153 °F — 10 min
Temperature — 154 °F — 10 min

Malts (11 lb 2.8 oz)​

9 lb 1.2 oz (81.2%) — Maris Otter Pale Malt, Maris Otter — Grain — 2.8 °L
1 lb 1.9 oz (10%) — BESTMALZ BEST Munich Dark — Grain — 9.9 °L
8.9 oz (5%) — Briess Aromatic Munich Malt 20L — Grain — 20 °L
5.4 oz (3%) — Weyermann Caramunich II — Grain — 47.1 °L
1.4 oz (0.8%) — Weyermann Carafa Special II — Grain — 412.8 °L

Hops (3.89 oz)​

0.22 oz (10 IBU) — Chinook 11.9% — Boil — 60 min
0.39 oz (14 IBU) — Chinook 11.9% — Boil — 30 min
0.68 oz (16 IBU) — Centennial 11.2% — Boil — 15 min
0.5 oz (2 IBU) — Centennial 11.2% — Aroma — 15 min hopstand
0.5 oz (3 IBU) — Simcoe 12.8% — Aroma — 15 min hopstand
0.6 oz — Citra 11.4% — Dry Hop — day 2
0.5 oz — Centennial 11.2% — Dry Hop — day 2
0.5 oz — Simcoe 12.8% — Dry Hop — day 2

Miscs​

2 g — Baking Soda (NaHCO3) — Mash
3.7 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Mash
1 g — Canning Salt (NaCl) — Mash
1 g — Epsom Salt (MgSO4) — Mash
8.4 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Mash
2.5 ml — Lactic Acid 88% — Mash

Yeast​

Spent Cake— White Labs WLP007 Dry English Ale 80%
0.333 pkg — Lallemand (LalBrew) Verdant IPA 78%

Fermentation​

Primary — 68 °F — 4 days
Primary — 72 °F — 2 days

Water Profile​

Ca2+ 112
Mg2+ 4
Na+ 36
Cl- 90
SO42- 191
HCO3- 54

 

[Genuine]

I've used Verdant in the last 4-5 hazies I've brewed and was going to comment on how well it holds onto haze. I had one that I let sit for a sold 2-3 months in the keg and it never dropped anywhere near clear...even on the last pint. I figured using it on any style with dry hopping it would hold onto some sort of haze.

 

[AlcheMania]

I've used Verdant in the last 4-5 hazies I've brewed and was going to comment on how well it holds onto haze. I had one that I let sit for a sold 2-3 months in the keg and it never dropped anywhere near clear...even on the last pint. I figured using it on any style with dry hopping it would hold onto some sort of haze.

Yep. Prayin' a small co pitch with wlp 007 will remedy that on my non Hazy style IPA. Any body have experience with Verdant plus gel finings ?

 

[Dgallo]

Yep. Prayin' a small co pitch with wlp 007 will remedy that on my non Hazy style IPA. Any body have experience with Verdant plus gel finings ?

If you’re really interested in making a west coast IPAs, I wouldn’t suggest verdant. Leaves too much body in my opinion for trying to make a crisp beer.

Now if that doesn’t bother you and you just really want to use verdant, mash lower, say 148-150*f. Use hotside finings like whirlfloc and then cold side finings, use biofine. I use it at 4-5 ml per gallon if I want it really clear.

 

[Miraculix]

Am I getting it right, you guys are complaining that your hazies stay hazy with verdant?

Just for the record, I've never had any clearing issues with verdant, but I never went beyond normal dry hopping levels with it.

Exclaimer: My German "normal" might be different to the American "normal".

 

[Dgallo]

Am I getting it right, you guys are complaining that your hazies stay hazy with verdant?

Just for the record, I've never had any clearing issues with verdant, but I never went beyond normal dry hopping levels with it.

Exclaimer: My German "normal" might be different to the American "normal".

Idt that’s the complaint. This thread is titled American/west coast ipa which should be clear or only slightly hazy from the dryhop. So I think the true take is that verdant being English based, higher in ester, lower in attenuation and flocculation, isn’t quite the best fit for the targeted style. But that all depends on how strict people want to be with styles. The longer I brew the more style guidelines matter to me

 

[Miraculix]

Idt that’s the complaint. This thread is titled American/west coast ipa which should be clear or only slightly hazy from the dryhop. So I think the true take is that verdant being English based, higher in ester, lower in attenuation and flocculation, isn’t quite the best fit for the targeted style. But that all depends on how strict people want to be with styles. The longer I brew the more style guidelines matter to me

It flocks better than us05 in my experience. So no need to fear the verdant! Attenuation-wise, that would need to be compensated for. It does not attenuate like us05 but it is also not a low attenuator. Somewhere in the middle, I would say.