Conditioning and taste

[Devilsnight]

So I'm wondering... Is it always normal for a beer to taste 'green' a week or so after bottling? If I let the bottles sit another week or month whats going on in there that will change the taste so dramatically?

I took a sip when I tested gravity on my last batch, when bottling. It seems like thats standard practice? It smelled like beer, but it didn't taste like beer at all. Now after a week, Bottles are carbed up (I do one plastic bottle to keep an eye on this) they seem crystal clear inside. Same thing but carbonated, Real harsh, cidery, blah! Or maybe I just made an awful tasting beer? Please shed some light on this for me, as I haven't seen a good explanation of when the beer(or wort) should achieve the correct taste!

And yes I realize, all brews are different, some need to age or condition for months. This is an IPA

 

[NewWestBrewer]

Yes beer can definitely taste green after only a week. Leave it at least 3 weeks. I am a little concerned that your sample didn't taste like flat beer but still let them sit for at least another two weeks.

 

[Devilsnight]

So out of the fermenter it should taste pretty close? Just warm, flat, uncarbonated. Perhaps its an aquired tase, I enjoy my beer cold and carbed

 

[RM-MN]

For being such a small creature, yeast are incredibly complex and while we think that they only produce CO2 and alcohol to make our beer the truth is that they make lots of different compounds. Some of these compounds are intermediate steps on the way to alcohol and we perceive them to be off flavors or "green beer" flavors. Since you have live yeast in the bottles to carbonate, they make these intermediate products when you add the priming sugars and it takes a bit for the yeast to complete breaking them down. There is also a continuing process that makes the flavors "meld" into the complex that we prefer and for some beers it takes longer than for others.

 

[Calder]

For being such a small creature, yeast are incredibly complex and while we think that they only produce CO2 and alcohol to make our beer the truth is that they make lots of different compounds. Some of these compounds are intermediate steps on the way to alcohol and we perceive them to be off flavors or "green beer" flavors. Since you have live yeast in the bottles to carbonate, they make these intermediate products when you add the priming sugars and it takes a bit for the yeast to complete breaking them down. There is also a continuing process that makes the flavors "meld" into the complex that we prefer and for some beers it takes longer than for others.

I've never heard of it happening at bottling, but I guess it can.

Green apple or cidery taste is often due to acetalhedye. As RM noted, this is an intermediate product produced by the yeast, and certain things can increase the amount produced, such as low O2, low pitch rate, or old yeast, and probably many others. Improving the brewing process minimizes the amount of these esters, and leaving the beer on the yeast cake longer helps the yeast clean it up quicker.

The good news (if this is your problem) is that there is still some yeast in the bottles which will slowly breakdown this flavor compound. I can't say how long, but it could be a couple of months ....... you probably won't wait, you will drink all the bottles, and then say (as most of us have said at sometime) the last bottle was really great, I wish I would have left them longer.

 

[BigFloyd]

Nobody has asked yet, so I suppose I will.

What yeast did you use and what were your 1) pitch and 2) fermentation temperatures?

 

[Devilsnight]

I used s-33 dry yeast, made a starter. Fermentation definately was problematic... I had a stick on thermometer, but since I never used one before, I didn't know if it was working or not. I think it fermented at like 80 deg. Primary fermentation happened in like 24 hours. Oops!

On the plus side I learned from this experience and have a cherry stout in the fermenter right now. I was able to keep this batch steady at 68. I took a gravity reading on it tonight and a taste test and much to my suprise, It tastes pretty darn good! This is what I was trying to get at, Im a beginner, lots of unanswered questions, so thanks alot guys for the explanation.

As for the IPA, It won't bother me sitting on the shelf for another month or two. I'll try another one then.

 

[Devilsnight]

Just thought i'd follow up. after 22 days in the bottle all the harshness has subsided. It doesn't really taste like anything (just "beer") but is drinkable now.

 

[BigFloyd]

Thanks for the update.

1) Don't make a starter when using dry yeast. You rehydrate it instead for better cell count.

2) A batch fermented on S-33 at 80*F is probably never going to taste very good, even after months in the bottles. Lesson learned.

Sounds like the second batch at 68*F is going to be much better. If possible next time, try to get the pitch/ferment temps down into the 63-64*F range.

 

[unionrdr]

I've found that the best time to make a starter for dry yeast is if it's old. It takes quite some time for them to degrade completely. For example,I bought a can of Coop[er's OS Lager for a recipe I use them with. When I got home,I noticed that it & the 7g yeast packet in the false lid were ywo years old. Damn,stuck again...what to do? I made a small starter to put it in for the 3.5-4 hours the brew took to make & cool down. Starter had a great krausen on it by then. so I got it in the fermenter,stirred the resulting yeast cream,& pitched it. Good thing I had a blow off rig waiting. It def needed it. That was my second brew,& it made the Summer ale (more like a Salvator doppelbock) that got me the full 3 thumbs up from Gary at Home Brewer TV!
But with fresh(er) yeast,I use 400mL of room temp tap water in my 1L Earlynmeir flask with a packet of yeast for 30-45 minutes. Swirl it up & pitch within 10 degrees of current wort temp for a healthy pitch.
Having said all that, I give the beer time to reach a stable FG in primary. Then give it another 3-7 days to clean up normally produced by products of fermentation & settle out clear or slightly misty. Thes by products are in Parts PER Million & aren't usually noticeable if you got a healthy yeast pitch & kept it in the yeasts' ideal temp range. But get an un-healthy pitch,under/over pitch,ferment at to high a temp & you'll produce these by products of fermentation in larger quantities that you can now taste &/or smell. This is how shiz happens.
So the extra 3-7 days after FG is reached help the yeast to clean these compounds up by the yeasts' actions to break them down when there's nothing else left to eat. Then time in the bottles,at least 3 weeks,will help to further break down more of these compounds. weeks at room temp in the bottles,then at least a week in the fridge will produce a better beer,among the other things mentioned.