Concord Kettle... which eBay seller?

[MaryB]

Current ads for current product, have you stopped to think they are testing materials now? And they are NOT advertised like that on their website!

I'll rephrase; it's not possible to make them in the US and make a profit and/or at a price where anyone would purchase them. I used to think like you as well. "Everything has to be made in the USA!". Well it's a world economy and not everything can be made here. You look at any large company and they have parts made from all over the world. Some places are better and more economical than others. I've been in this business for 5 years. We've had many many companies in the US quote our kettles and conicals; none have been economical. They would double our prices and people aren't willing to buying a $500 15gal brew kettle. Our old conical was US made and $775. It didn't have the features that the SS did and it was more or less a flop because of the price and lack of features.

We do a lot of work in house with our fab guys and welders. All of our pickup tubes, false bottoms and fixtures are made in the USA. Our brand new punch machine was custom made for us in the USA as well. One of the biggest factors I look at when judging the success of Spike is "How many people are employing directly and indirectly in the US?". You say you have a shop as well? I'm assuming you have a welder in there? Miller or Lincoln? Well if you crack those 'US' machines open you'll see most the components come from China. Again it's just a world economy.




If you can't believe 2 completely independent test results done at different times then I can't convince ya! However they do advertise as 304. 18/8 means 18% chromium and 8% nickel which is 304; 304 and 18/8 are interchangeable. Please see attached for just 3 quick references that I found from them. Also the "Commercial Quality" doesn't mean anything. It's just a marketing thing. They could put "Space Age Quality" and it would still be crappy knock off SS.

We are not sour at all. They are under cutting with a material that isn't what the customer thinks they are buying. Now if the customers cares or not is another thing but I think they should know what they are getting.




I'm not a materials expert but I will consider myself very knowledgeable on welding. It's not a wrong filler or shielding gas issue. The issue is there is almost no chromium and nickel. When you weld it heats the metal up super hot and you can 'blow away' all the chromium. This pretty much losses all the 'stainless' qualities in the HAZ (heat affected zone). This is why you will always see the rust issues along the bottom weld seam (as shown above), wall seam or around any couplers being welded. We were having a ton of issues with rusting bottom weld seams and couplers welding. Come to find out it's because the 304 we ordered was not 304 at all.



Again not trying to get a flame war going (as I know that tends to happen on the forums) but I'm just trying to give the facts for others that are interested.

-Ben

 

[02RedWS6TA]

More Beer's tanks are not made in the US. Blichmann recently moved their 20 gallon and smaller tanks back to the US. However they recently came out with the 'economy' Anvil line which indicates to me that the US line isn't selling as well.

Unfortunately that's not how business works. The biggest cost with US production is always tooling. When we quoted our kettles with a US manufacturer the tooling alone for each tank was about $100,000. So that would be about a half of a million dollars.

-Ben

So more beer is lying then? Serious question, it says right on their site their conicals are built here. You'd know more than an of us. When I asked blichmann over the winter about their conicals and pots they said they were all made here.

So no pots are made in the US at companies that already have tooling? I can't believe no one in the states makes them already for commercial cooking, that's nuts.

 

[SpikeBrewing]

Current ads for current product, have you stopped to think they are testing materials now? And they are NOT advertised like that on their website!

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by current ads for current products but I do know how Concord operates as we worked with them for years and spent a lot of money with them. The metallurgy report that was posted by someone else was very recent. It sounds like you have your mind made up. Cheers!

So more beer is lying then? Serious question, it says right on their site their conicals are built here. You'd know more than an of us. When I asked blichmann over the winter about their conicals and pots they said they were all made here.

So no pots are made in the US at companies that already have tooling? I can't believe no one in the states makes them already for commercial cooking, that's nuts.

The More Beer and Blichmann conicals look to be made from the same company we had them made from. I see More Beer has their 14gal USA made conical on sale for $300. I'd be surprised if they continue to offer these going forward. Like I said before these can not be made in the USA any longer and still offer any profit for the company. It's unfortunate but it's the fact of the matter. Blichmann has their 20gal and smaller pots made here though.

Volrath which is about 100mi from our facility is one of (if not the largest) kettle manufacturers in the US. To just stamp the kettle (no polish, no logo, no volume etching, no lid, no handles) it would have increased our cost by 2. Now tack on the $100,000 tooling fee per kettle and it quickly becomes unfeasible.

-Ben

 

[wilserbrewer]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1473512796.487214.jpg

 

[02RedWS6TA]

View attachment 369534

Lol my point

 

[SpikeBrewing]

.

Lol my point

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I'm hoping this can show our true intentions as we've had this come up before. Please see an email from back in June regarding this issue. This is a supplier mistake but we will make sure it is corrected right away.

If you see on the main link it is correct: https://www.homebrewsupply.com/brewing-equipment/spike-brewing.html?gclid=COThn7OEhc8CFQIPaQodeRcCpg

 

[02RedWS6TA]

I hope you don't take any of this the wrong way man, I'm not attacking you or anything like that. I think you guys make great stuff, your products always look awesome and seem to be top notch. I've sent a couple people your way and I have spoken with you in emails a few times. You answer all questions asked and really seem to have great customer service. These things happen, things get twisted, or look misinterpreted at times. One of concords resellers saying it's 304 vs "commercial grade" and "built in the USA" vs "welded in the USA" .

I have no doubts your kettles are better than my concord kettle. I bought mine with a system and it's definitely not the highest quality kettle on the market.

 

[SpikeBrewing]

I hope you don't take any of this the wrong way man, I'm not attacking you or anything like that. I think you guys make great stuff, your products always look awesome and seem to be top notch. I've sent a couple people your way and I have spoken with you in emails a few times. You answer all questions asked and really seem to have great customer service. These things happen, things get twisted, or look misinterpreted at times. One of concords resellers saying it's 304 vs "commercial grade" and "built in the USA" vs "welded in the USA" .

I have no doubts your kettles are better than my concord kettle. I bought mine with a system and it's definitely not the highest quality kettle on the market.

Absolutely not. It's an open discussion and I haven't been on the forums in a while so it's good to get the 'pulse of the customer'. I just want to educate consumers of what is going on behind the scenes. Concord isn't a brand and they do not have wholesalers they are just a turn and burn importer.

We don't look at Concord as a competitor and we're not trying to sway people to buy our products. They sell an ultra economy pot and we are a premium quality brand. It's better to have educated consumers out there for all of us!

-Ben

 

[MidAtlanticBrew]

Hey man, Here's my view. I hope to be alive and functioning for another 35 years. I hope I don't inadvertantly poison my friends. I have a 21 year old daughter, who will have children some day, and she drinks my homebrew. The fact that SS, Blich and Spike test the metals is enough for me to pay a little extra. China is a country where the leading baby food manufacturer put poison in baby food to pass a specification. Sure the CEO was executed when caught, but many babies died. This was just 4 years ago.

Have fun, take your risk to save $100, not me ...... The fact is you do not know and I find it amazing that what risks people will take to save $100, which over a lifetime of brewing is about 3 bucks a year. People pay $1000 per year in car insurance but won't pay $3 in brewing equipment health insurance. Makes little sense to me.

 

[cbier60]

I posted earlier in this thread that I have been very happy with the quality of my higher-end heavy duty 20 gal Concorde kettle, which I paid $160 for. Well, I took the plunge for a bargain cave Spike kettle that I found through this thread. The Concorde pot is well-made, but it's just a stock pot (albeit with a steamer insert that's great for BIAB), not a brewing-optimized kettle. For only $60 more, I'm getting a better 1.2 aspect ratio and 2 welded couplers plus a few other features for a true brew kettle. I'll be glad to post back in a few weeks after using the new kettle to provide an objective comparison of the two.