Closed-system pressurized fermentation technique!
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Lennie
Well-Known Member
Glad to hear it because I bought one for my first spunding valve. Suckers are a lot more expensive though. I bought a cheaper one for my second valve.
tdogg
Well-Known Member
First lessoned learned this morning. Those who attach the Spunding valve to the liquid port on a corny will be met with horrifying results.
OP
OP
Yep, lol, it's like you have a built in CO2 dispensing system if you do it that way. 
I pushed my batch size up to 15 gallons on a maibock that's currently bubbling away at 4psi thanks to fermcap s keeping the krausen down. What I haven't noticed before with my other bock beers is how strong an odor this fermentation is especially when trapped in a stand up freezer. I am so happy I pushed my rig to the limits at 36lbs of grain. It actually performs the best.
kpr121
Well-Known Member
flananuts said:
What does your brew setup consist of? I just did a 15 gal batch of pale ale, concentrated boil in a keggle. Added the additional water at flameout.
Single tier 15.5 gallon HERMS setup. Fermenter is a 15.5 gallon keg with a brewers hardware ss I lamp fitting.
kpr121
Well-Known Member
flananuts said:
Sweet. Did you have to do any dilution or were you able to brew it all in the kettle? I'm really liking the concentrated boil and diluting at flameout or in the fermenter. I think I will be doing 15 gallon batches of normal of brews from now on, just because.
I boiled 14.5 gallons but had to top back off after boil. I boil off a S$&T ton doing a 90 minute boil. In the future I'd like to move up to a 30 gallon BK in the future so I don't have to dilute or top off. D use fermcap s when boiling 14 gallons.
Hey WortMonger,
Excellent thread.
Check out Zymurgy Vol.15 No. 4 Special 1992, Page 64.
Your thread provides more information then the article in Zymurgy. She uses a blow off tube for the first couple of days then caps with a pressure gage and ball valve. The biggest difference is that you're using a adjustable pressure valve on a sanke keg and she using a pressure gage and a ball valve (bleeder valve assembly) on a corney keg. You have more control over pressure with an adjustable pressure valve, then Teri using a pressure gage and ball valve. Which explains why she lets the pressure bleeds off for a couple of days before capping off.
I plan on using this technique on next batch. I found a new use for my bleeder valve assembly. I replaced the ball valve and blow off tube for an adjustable pressure valve assembly (CR-25 Drillspot.com 0-100 psi)
Excellent thread.
Check out Zymurgy Vol.15 No. 4 Special 1992, Page 64.
Your thread provides more information then the article in Zymurgy. She uses a blow off tube for the first couple of days then caps with a pressure gage and ball valve. The biggest difference is that you're using a adjustable pressure valve on a sanke keg and she using a pressure gage and a ball valve (bleeder valve assembly) on a corney keg. You have more control over pressure with an adjustable pressure valve, then Teri using a pressure gage and ball valve. Which explains why she lets the pressure bleeds off for a couple of days before capping off.
I plan on using this technique on next batch. I found a new use for my bleeder valve assembly. I replaced the ball valve and blow off tube for an adjustable pressure valve assembly (CR-25 Drillspot.com 0-100 psi)
OP
OP
Well, Teri Fahrendorf is one of the people responsible for this mammoth thread. It was her article on her website that led me down this path. If you love this thread... she's one to thank. Cheers Teri
Great thread. I finally got my pressure gauge and pressure release valve installed. I just put it on a finishing beer. I welded up the 2" triclamp with 1/4 npt couplers today. Overall, I think this will be a great setup.
Do you have a separate racking cane for your beer when done? Welds look nice and clean.
I have all but one part. I'll order that next week, and I'll be joining the ranks. Thanks guys!
So if I see this correctly you swap in the racking cane when you're ready to transfer? I like the racking cane design. I prefer having it all in one closed system so I don't have to to depressurize the fermenter and the only time my beer will see oxygen is when it's in the glass.
Islandboy85
Well-Known Member
ohararp said:
Are you using o-rings or the standard olive in the compression fitting to hold the racking cane in place?
dstar26t
If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing
ohararp, that is similar to the ones I made. Instead of a tee, I used a 3-way valve so the racking tube can be removed without loosing pressure in the fermenter. Spunding, racking and thermowell in one:
-MG-
Well-Known Member
So finally am using this setup.
I put my lager into the sanke around 1 am sunday morning. Pitched the yeast and sealed it up. I anxiously was looking at it all sunday with nothing happening. I set the PSI to 5 and its still sitting at 0.
we are almost 36 hours into it, and I'm getting kind of nervous no activity is happening. However, this morning when I went to check on it, there was no pressure, but I definately picked up a sulfur smell near the keg in my fermentor. So maybe it was just the lag time for a lager yeast to get started. It's also sitting at 53 F, so that could be affecting the little bit of pressure I have it set to.
I'm hoping to see that PSI guage kick up by tonight.
I put my lager into the sanke around 1 am sunday morning. Pitched the yeast and sealed it up. I anxiously was looking at it all sunday with nothing happening. I set the PSI to 5 and its still sitting at 0.
we are almost 36 hours into it, and I'm getting kind of nervous no activity is happening. However, this morning when I went to check on it, there was no pressure, but I definately picked up a sulfur smell near the keg in my fermentor. So maybe it was just the lag time for a lager yeast to get started. It's also sitting at 53 F, so that could be affecting the little bit of pressure I have it set to.
I'm hoping to see that PSI guage kick up by tonight.
What was your batch size and amount of lager yeast you put in? I typically use 3x the initial yeast size in a vial and oxygenate the wort. That will usually get you started quickly. I have pitched a single yeast lager pack before and it has taken a couple days before showing activity. Stay the course and leave it be.
kpr121
Well-Known Member
Also, not sure if you have this issue with sankes, but I know sometimes I need to give my cornies a burst of CO2 (usually 5 to 10 psi works, I don’t want to overburden the yeast with 30 psi) to get everything sealed up so that there are no air leaks.
Seems like you wouldn’t have that problem with the way a sanke is connected though….
Seems like you wouldn’t have that problem with the way a sanke is connected though….
I had this happen and at 2 days, right before re-pitching, found a leak in my plumbing. It was fermenting away. Try looking in the fermenter or covering the opening with a piece of syran wrap or something to check .
-MG-
Well-Known Member
I got about 12g into the sanke and I pitched right about 48g of Safalager 34/70 dry yeast. MrMalty says I need 46.
I'll report back after lunch on whats going on. I may take a starsan spray bottle and go over all the connections in my valve to see if I have any leaks.
dstar26t
If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing
-MG-
Well-Known Member
aw crap, that is where I messed up. I just finished my Kal clone and was so excited about everything and the system I completed missed that step and pitched right into the wort.
Ideas at this point?
kpr121
Well-Known Member
Let it go.
Or if you are paranoid worried, and its easily available, pitch more dry yeast.
-MG-
Well-Known Member
I'll check at lunch and see how things are going. I know you can pitch dry yeast like I can, just you will have longer lag times and could possibly have some issues. Like I said, this morning I smelled sulfur, so I think its starting up. I'll report back soon.
dstar26t
If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing
I'm sure it will ferment, it just won't be as clean as it should be and now is too late to pitch more to avoid that. If you use Mr.Malty as a guide for dried yeast, you have to rehydrate. If you don't rehydrate, double what Mr.Malty suggests because about half the yeast will die.
-MG-
Well-Known Member
I checked at lunch. Openned her up and looked in and sure enough its fermenting. I resealed it up sanitized the beer line again and didn't tap it for about 5 min.
I put it on and immediately the pressure relief is letting gas out. I had it set to around 5 psi and it let out for about 5 seconds audible. The pressure guage however didn't move. So I untapped waitted 5 min, turned my relief up to about 30 psi just to see the guage move, and it doesnt move... I don't get it.
I start slowly turning down the relief and sure enough again, its releasing the pressure. So I set my relief to sit at 5 psi for now and will just let it be.
Why wouldn't the gauge be working?
I put it on and immediately the pressure relief is letting gas out. I had it set to around 5 psi and it let out for about 5 seconds audible. The pressure guage however didn't move. So I untapped waitted 5 min, turned my relief up to about 30 psi just to see the guage move, and it doesnt move... I don't get it.
I start slowly turning down the relief and sure enough again, its releasing the pressure. So I set my relief to sit at 5 psi for now and will just let it be.
Why wouldn't the gauge be working?
Lennie
Well-Known Member
Wow what is that, five packs? $30 worth of yeast?
Lennie
Well-Known Member
I've seen this estimate and think its an overestimate or worst case scenario (like pitching yeast into a very cool must rather than wort). If the beer's OG isn't terribly high the yeast won't have a big problem overcoming the osmotic pressure.
Better yet, make a starter batch of beer and use the cake for the big batch.
kpr121
Well-Known Member
You would be surprised at how long it takes to get up to 5 psi (longer than 5 minutes I would say unless you are gangbuster ferment).
Additionally, I've found that my dial pressure gauge just does not move very accurately below 5 psi. You are definitely cabable of holding pressure, and also releasing pressure as you tested. If I were you I would leave it set at 30 psi for longer (maybe an hour or two) to see if it creeps up. Just dont forget about it! You could also hit it quickly with CO2 at a known pressure for an instant check.
Either way, sounds like you are making beer! RDWHAHB!
Additionally, I've found that my dial pressure gauge just does not move very accurately below 5 psi. You are definitely cabable of holding pressure, and also releasing pressure as you tested. If I were you I would leave it set at 30 psi for longer (maybe an hour or two) to see if it creeps up. Just dont forget about it! You could also hit it quickly with CO2 at a known pressure for an instant check.
Either way, sounds like you are making beer! RDWHAHB!
Lennie
Well-Known Member
My second spunding valve gauge isn't working either. Its on its maiden voyage now, I can hear hissing through the valve and no pressure is registering. I put the other spunding valve on and its reading a few psi. I'm wondering if the gauge is defective or stuck. I'm going to put it on a line going to my CO2 tank tonight and see if I can get a reading at 30psi. Otherwise, I don't see how the thing can't be sensing the pressure. Its a 60psi gauge though, my other was 30psi (and glycerin filled). I'm wondering if the keg or the valve itself has a leak and although you get pressure coming out the valve, nothing is building up to a point that will register. In any case its as good as an airlock.
Oh and I'm not worried about it, its just a minor annoyance. I've got two pressurized fermentations in cornies now, a bitter and a hefe. I'm really interested to see how the hefe comes out. Its got a good 4gal in the cornie, I'm hoping it doesn't push krausen out the valve.
Oh and I'm not worried about it, its just a minor annoyance. I've got two pressurized fermentations in cornies now, a bitter and a hefe. I'm really interested to see how the hefe comes out. Its got a good 4gal in the cornie, I'm hoping it doesn't push krausen out the valve.
-MG-
Well-Known Member
I did this and within 45 min it easily passed 5psi. Satisfied that things are going according to plan I am going to have it hold 5 psi for 3-4 days than take a sample and probably start ramping up 1-2 psi each day. Or how would someone else suggest going about this.
Lennie
Well-Known Member
I'd wait three days and run it straight up to 15psi without testing. Opening the fermentor seems to be defeating one of the primary purposes of pressurized fermentation, prevention of oxidation. It'll take anywhere from several hous to a day or the pressure to ramp up anyway.
-MG-
Well-Known Member
Even for a lager you would ramp it up that quick? I was trying to find an example in this thread of people giving fermentation numbers for lagers but couldn't really find how accelerated the process was.
I brew the first 50% at 4psi at 50 degrees then ramp to 8psi until I get to about 1.025 then I ramp to 16psi for the duration and don't change the valve through lagering and cold crashing. I've brewed about 4 lagers this way and I've had no diacetyl and perfectly naturally carbonated lager.
Lennie
Well-Known Member
Does a commercial operation ramp up pressure slowly? I think their yeast experiences the higher pressures from the beginning due to fermentor size. I don't know of any evidence that there is a physiological adaptation to various pressures.
Lagers tend to ferment at a rather modest steady rate, I don't know that turning the relief valve to 15psi would instantly result in htat pressure, it would maybe take at least hours to overnight. Seems like theres less of a chance of causing cells to implode by squeezing them, than causing them to explode with a rapid decompression.
Lagers tend to ferment at a rather modest steady rate, I don't know that turning the relief valve to 15psi would instantly result in htat pressure, it would maybe take at least hours to overnight. Seems like theres less of a chance of causing cells to implode by squeezing them, than causing them to explode with a rapid decompression.
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