Cheap compact wort pump

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chordwizard said:
Good to know, thanks. Probably take the KISS route and just position it so that the outlet is pointing up and not have to worry about it.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. Much appreciated!
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If it helps I found that slitting the difference so the outlet faced up enough to let ir escape but still off to one side also works... eventually though I decided to just move the pump from the base of my HLT to the inlet of my three way valve on my rims which was mounted further down allowing more pressure for gravity priming.
 
BryanG said:
I am using an 18v battery from my Ryobi cordless drill. Works great.
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It just won't power the pump at full speed or strength but 18v is close enough where it would still work OK... But being that a 2 amp 24v power supply can be bought for like $5. Why?
If it's a 12v version you will burn up the motor with 18v over time there actually a couple people here who have found that out already... And a 2 amp 12v power supply is even cheaper so..
 
FYI
I was starting to brew after a hiatus over the holidays and my cheap compact pump did not function. I took it apart assuming that it was clogged with some hop residue but not so, all channels were clear. What I did find out was that the impeller/magnet was not turning on the shaft. Further examination revealed that itself had spots of corrosion on it from where I had put it away wet. I was surprised at this as I thought the shaft was stainless steel. If it is it is potentially subject to corrosion, so check it if your pump stops working. I brought it back on line by polishing the shaft with emory paper.
 
nealm said:
FYI
I was starting to brew after a hiatus over the holidays and my cheap compact pump did not function. I took it apart assuming that it was clogged with some hop residue but not so, all channels were clear. What I did find out was that the impeller/magnet was not turning on the shaft. Further examination revealed that itself had spots of corrosion on it from where I had put it away wet. I was surprised at this as I thought the shaft was stainless steel. If it is it is potentially subject to corrosion, so check it if your pump stops working. I brought it back on line by polishing the shaft with emory paper.
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what kind of pump do you have? The tan pumps most of us are using have a white ceramic shaft and everything else is sealed in pps besides a stainless disc under the impeller, It would have to have been some nasty gunk in there to lock it up or if there was corrosion it sounds like your not using a food grade pump. Are you using a solar utility pump like a topsflo?
 
One of the little tan ones that I bought over two years ago. Has worked like a trooper all this time. Did they change from a ss spindle to a ceramic recently?
Perhaps I should upgrade and maybe go to 24v.
 
nealm said:
One of the little tan ones that I bought over two years ago. Has worked like a trooper all this time. Did they change from a ss spindle to a ceramic recently?
Perhaps I should upgrade and maybe go to 24v.
Click to expand...

strange? I have 7 of these pumps including a few 12v versions starting 4 years ago and I bought them with all different branding from different seller and all mine are identical with the ceramic shafts. Can you take a pic and post it? im curious. does it have the encapsulated sealed magnet inside the tan plastic?

hers is a pic of one of mine , notice the white shaft.

IMG_20170130_083053001[1].jpg
 
A quick note on quick disconnects. I use 3/8" thick walled silicone tubing on 1/2" nipples. They stay on without clamp all day long. If you need to swap connections, just pinch the tube and pull.
 
I grabbed one of the 24V tan pumps last month and used it on one batch. To my surprise it worked perfectly and it was so much easier to work with (and quieter) than my March pump. I used it to recirculate strike and sparge water, to pump boiling wort through my CFC, to pump wort through CFC into the fermenter, and then to circulate PBW, water, and StarSan through the system during clean-up.

Fast forward to yesterday's batch - I set it up to recirculate strike water as it heated. I noticed after a few minutes of running it started to make noise and noticeably slow down. I disassembled the pump and it was completely clean. It spun freely and quietly, so I reassembled it and gave it another shot. Same deal. I disassembled it again and couldn't find anything wrong, so I reassembled it and put it back to work. After a few minutes, it completely died.

Fortunately I had a spare that I put into service. I'm wondering if I just got a lemon, or if I did something wrong. I really like these little things and they are cheap - but not if they only last one batch :).
 
Sockmonkey said:
I grabbed one of the 24V tan pumps last month and used it on one batch. To my surprise it worked perfectly and it was so much easier to work with (and quieter) than my March pump. I used it to recirculate strike and sparge water, to pump boiling wort through my CFC, to pump wort through CFC into the fermenter, and then to circulate PBW, water, and StarSan through the system during clean-up.

Fast forward to yesterday's batch - I set it up to recirculate strike water as it heated. I noticed after a few minutes of running it started to make noise and noticeably slow down. I disassembled the pump and it was completely clean. It spun freely and quietly, so I reassembled it and gave it another shot. Same deal. I disassembled it again and couldn't find anything wrong, so I reassembled it and put it back to work. After a few minutes, it completely died.

Fortunately I had a spare that I put into service. I'm wondering if I just got a lemon, or if I did something wrong. I really like these little things and they are cheap - but not if they only last one batch :).
Click to expand...

I dont believe its the pump Ive got hundreds of hours on my 3 in my setup now...

Can you post the specs of your power supply? 9 out of 10 times its the power supply thats the issue... you really need a 2 amp or larger 24v supply. running them on anything less than 1 amp will make they weak at best and the power supply wont hold up long.
 
So I measured the actual amp draw on my new 24v pump today (tan p38i style most used in this thread ) the pump actually draws about 1.6-1.8amps of current at 24v so many sellers advertise them with incorrect specs.
 
Could someone dummy proof this for me.. I assume most of you are using the 12volt tan pump.
I have no clue on how to supply power to it with an outlet. Could you post me a link to what I need to power it with? Either Amazon or Ebay... Thanks!

Can I just splice a power cord into the wiring of this pump? I have plenty of 12v 2 amp ac/dc wall plugs lying around
 
jcorn said:
Could someone dummy proof this for me.. I assume most of you are using the 12volt tan pump.
I have no clue on how to supply power to it with an outlet. Could you post me a link to what I need to power it with? Either Amazon or Ebay... Thanks!

Can I just splice a power cord into the wiring of this pump? I have plenty of 12v 2 amp ac/dc wall plugs lying around
Click to expand...

Just buy this one of amazon, it comes with the power source. It'b been working great for me for months.

http://amzn.to/2mMlpgZ
 
jcorn said:
Could someone dummy proof this for me.. I assume most of you are using the 12volt tan pump.
I have no clue on how to supply power to it with an outlet. Could you post me a link to what I need to power it with? Either Amazon or Ebay... Thanks!

Can I just splice a power cord into the wiring of this pump? I have plenty of 12v 2 amp ac/dc wall plugs lying around
Click to expand...
if your going with the lower flow 12v version you need a 12v dc power suplly that puts out as least 1 amp if your going with the 24v version which is a third stronger and pumps more than you need a 24v dc power supply 2 amps or bigger... The 24v is no more costly to buy or power so I am confused why so many go with the weaker 12v?

When on ebay search "12v dc powersupply" (or 24v) and most sellers will sell multiple versions... pick the one that suites the amount of pumps you expect to power at the same time (2 pumps would need at least 2 amps) then you need a regular ac power cord with ground to connect the line in, neutral and ground as well as some lamp cord or 2 wire power cord to make the power cord going from the pump to the power supply. you can also buy the inline power supplies with the cords already attached but they usually have a higher failure rate IMHO..
Wiring that is just like a car or any battery... the + goes to the red and the - negative goes to the black wire on the pump...
if you use a speed controller you just wire that inline (+&- in and + &- ) out to pump...
 
So I got my 24v pump plumbed up last night for a test run, it recirculated boiling water just fine for about 30 minutes. I noticed immediately a plastic smell from the pump. Is the smell normal, or at least the first time you run it at those temps? Will it go away?

If I can smell it I can't help but wonder what will go into the wort.

(electric kettle so no burner flames burning it from the outside)
 
thekraken said:
So I got my 24v pump plumbed up last night for a test run, it recirculated boiling water just fine for about 30 minutes. I noticed immediately a plastic smell from the pump. Is the smell normal, or at least the first time you run it at those temps? Will it go away?

If I can smell it I can't help but wonder what will go into the wort.

(electric kettle so no burner flames burning it from the outside)
Click to expand...
I dont know, I never noticed any plastic smell myself... The pump is made from a very dense (and brittle/hard) pps plastic which is almost more like a bakelite material and appears to possibly have glass fiber in it.
Its designed to be stable and safe at boiling temps vs the other plastics like ABS plastic used on most pond pumps and non foodgrade pumps like the plastic topsflo and solar pond pumps many others like brau supply sells for brewing..
Some of those plastics are not safe at temps abouve 170 degrees (like the plastic a cooler liner is made from that sometimes warps due to this)
https://www.curbellplastics.com/Research-Solutions/Materials/PPS

http://www.cpchem.com/en-us/news/Pa...Chemical-Adds-New-Ryton®-PPS-Grades-for-.aspx (one of the manufacturers claims was these pumps were designed for coffe and tea makers)

I dont generally pump boiling liquids with my pumps myself besides the chiller pump which honestly only pumps boiling temps for a few minutes at a time...
 
augiedoggy said:
I dont know, I never noticed any plastic smell myself... The pump is made from a very dense (and brittle/hard) pps plastic which is almost more like a bakelite material and appears to possibly have glass fiber in it.
Its designed to be stable and safe at boiling temps vs the other plastics like ABS plastic used on most pond pumps and non foodgrade pumps like the plastic topsflo and solar pond pumps many others like brau supply sells for brewing..
Some of those plastics are not safe at temps abouve 170 degrees (like the plastic a cooler liner is made from that sometimes warps due to this)
https://www.curbellplastics.com/Research-Solutions/Materials/PPS

http://www.cpchem.com/en-us/news/Pa...Chemical-Adds-New-Ryton®-PPS-Grades-for-.aspx (one of the manufacturers claims was these pumps were designed for coffe and tea makers)

I dont generally pump boiling liquids with my pumps myself besides the chiller pump which honestly only pumps boiling temps for a few minutes at a time...
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Topsflo pumps use polysulfone not abs…
 
wbarber69 said:
Topsflo pumps use polysulfone not abs…
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I think It depends on the model of pump.. topsflos foodgrade pumps are made of the same tan pps plastic http://www.topsflo.com/brushless-pump/ (they actually make a couple variants of the p38i pumps) I also have a topsflo style clone pump and emailed the manufacturer about it being foodgrade and they stated no due to the abs plastic construction and non sealed magnet..
the ts5 is a solar hot water heater and utility pump.. It was not designed, built or intended for food grade use.. It works and different companies order them with different propellers and magnets (Great brew used to have the magnets coated so they could be sold for food grade use but the coating starts flaking off after the first use so I believe they abandoned that.) I think this is also why the TD5 stainless sealed head pump came about.. its just at too high of a pricepoint to be popular.
 
The s5 can be bought in 2 options… polysulphone only, and polysulphone with stainless threads. the d5 is a completely stainless option. all have ceramic coated impellers. imposters may use abs but topsflo does not. I've spent countless emails going back and forth with some us sellers over the mds sheets they have on their products. ultimately I was the first person in the US to purchase a D5 model for use in brewing. now they're all over the place. stop spreading lies about topsflo pumps just because you like the tan model. just because you find a pump online and it's tan doesn't mean it's going to be food safe. just because you got one email from a seller stating they thought the pump was abs that doesn't make it true.
 
wbarber69 said:
The s5 can be bought in 2 options… polysulphone only, and polysulphone with stainless threads. the d5 is a completely stainless option. all have ceramic coated impellers. imposters may use abs but topsflo does not. I've spent countless emails going back and forth with some us sellers over the mds sheets they have on their products. ultimately I was the first person in the US to purchase a D5 model for use in brewing. now they're all over the place. stop spreading lies about topsflo pumps just because you like the tan model. just because you find a pump online and it's tan doesn't mean it's going to be food safe. just because you got one email from a seller stating they thought the pump was abs that doesn't make it true.
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Hey man I'm not spreading anything.. there sold with different components and there's plenty if threads here with pictures as well as posts comparing the different versions.. you sound like the one who doesn't like what they are hearing.. maybe you need to go back and do a little research of your own. Us solar sells a version with a different impeller as well.
The stainless head version is a completely different pump with a sealed magnetically coupled impeller..
 
I own both versions of topsflo and the beige one y'all seem to love on here. im not putting down one over the other, I just can't stand it when you guys in here state blaring misinformation. you'd be hard pressed to find a topsflo pump in the US today without a coated impeller, since brewing has brought in nearly half of their sales. with solar bringing in half of that, btw the solar pumps are meant to move both water for cleaning and for drinking. I specifically went to great lengths to do my research before I ever put a pump into use. and I can assure you there isn't a solar pump on the market that is made out of abs unless it's a rip off of a real topsflo. and even when they were shipping them with un-coated impellers, it's not like they were unsafe to use anyway. The reason you see so many brew supply houses carry the topsflo pumps is because they are food safe. unless you are boiling your wort at 485f then you don't have anything to worry about...
 
I think part of the problem here is there are like 4 different model topsflo pumps commonly being bought and used on this forum there one with the sealed magnetically coupled stainless head, a stainless headed TD5 and a TD5 and the TS5..

It wasnt the impellers I remember being coated it was the magnets, I remember this because theres a thread here with a bunch of pictures were the coating started flaking off in some guys wort o the first use.. at that time supposedly greatbrew supply in canada had the magnets specially coated just for the ones they sold.. I had no idea they changed the design without changing the model number, I dont own one. The last I heard about these was a while back when a member here posted comparison pictures of a topsflo he bought from US solor vs a topflo he bought on amazon and the impeller assemblies where a different color entirely.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=515918&highlight=topsflo&page=2

You dont find it odd that every chinese pump maker seems to only advertise the tan pps model pumps they make as for food grade use and they have actual encapsulated seal magnets but the other pumps are like the ts5 were only advertised as solor hot water utility pumps. even now when you compare the foodgrade line on topflos website only the tan ones are widely advertised as such in the brief description. I believe both the Td5 and Ts5 actually have circuitry to shut them down when recirculating boiling liquids for more than a minute or so to prevent overheating? They also use mppt power circuitry because they were designed to be run off solar panels.
looking at topsflos site now they clearly changed the specs on the pump at some point because they were NOT advertised for food grade use before. They seemsed to have changed and improved them likely BECAUSE of the feedback and shortcomings in the earlier designs ..
theres another good read on these pumps. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=317600&page=31
 
They also won't shut down just because of boiling wort. the temp at the motor has to exceed 185c if I remember correctly. at least the hastily translated documentation says so. the mppt control of the motor is an upside and a downside, if you are feeding off a power supply that's slightly underpowered, you'll get nearly the same quality output of a slightly larger ps. but it does mean you can't use any kind of speed controller with it. but in reality that's a bad practice anyway.
 
wbarber69 said:
They also won't shut down just because of boiling wort. the temp at the motor has to exceed 185c if I remember correctly. at least the hastily translated documentation says so. the mppt control of the motor is an upside and a downside, if you are feeding off a power supply that's slightly underpowered, you'll get nearly the same quality output of a slightly larger ps. but it does mean you can't use any kind of speed controller with it. but in reality that's a bad practice anyway.
Click to expand...

Please enlighten me as to why the pwm speed controllers Ive been using for 4 years with no problems is bad practice on a brushless dc motor? Especially compared to manually creating more restriction on the pump with a ball valve which if anything actually creates more sideload on the the shaft bushing area on these type of pumps and wears them out faster..

The pumps shutting down is a very real downside the way I see it as well as all the people who complained of it in the last thread I linked.. the tan PPS pumps dont do this meaning I can use them to whirlpool if I wanted..
I actually stopped using the topsflo clone I had because of the same thermal safety shutdown which happened to me more than once.. I thought the pump was defective before researching why it was doing this. The mppt tech is nice if you only run it at full power but again its there because these pumps were designed to squeeze as much efficiency out of solar panels with varying voltages and not really for food grade use applications..

BTW Not to split hairs here but when you jumped all over me for the ABS plastic comment me you stated the topflo pump in question is made of polysulfone (PSU) but topsflo states its made of PPS? which is a completely different plastic unless I missed something here? What were you saying about blaring misinformation? I see the pot calling the kettle black here since it appears you been doing some assuming of your own.
 
So I mixed up my high temperature non-solvent plastics… my bad. either way they're totally safe for high temperatures. the "bad practice" of using a pwm or other speed controller I was talking about is that most of us will also put a valve on the outflow, so it's kind of pointless to have a speed controller when all you have to do is turn the valve to control the flow. not so much bad practice just pointless really, since 90 percent of the work you're doing with the pump can be done at full speed.
 
not to mention its a lot easier for me to get consistent flow rates when using a setting value vs manually playing with the ball valve... if I ever automate my system the pwm will have a dramatic advantage as well.


I never did explanation of why its "Bad practice" or is this just "misinformation" like you were complaining I was offering? to me using a ball valve to counteract the pump is just inefficient and generates unneeded wear and heat with the wasted energy. its like carrying around a trailer full of weights behind my car with my pedal to the floor instead of just giving it less gas with the accelerator pedal to slow it down.

Its not used very often for controlling the output of an AC pump because its not as easily and cost effectively done with AC vs DC but make no mistake thats how the "variable speed" works on a lot of power tools... they vary the voltage or duty cycle not run it at full blast and try to use a brake to control speed...
 
If you were talking about an industrial sized pump, maybe. but the flow rate is so negligible here it makes no sense. you're talking about the difference between 1.5 and 4 gpm with you're speed controller. basically the difference between gravity feed and having the pump on…
 
thekraken said:
Soooo... it's not pointless? ;)
Click to expand...


I don't think you know what you're arguing with me about.

Anyway, I lost all my 12/24v pumps last year to a massive flood. im currently building out a temporary solution for my future brewery and I'm switching over to AC power for everything with pou relays. was looking at some pumps like this going forward, anyone else got any experience with these:

http://s.aliexpress.com/2qmeUZVf
 
wbarber69 said:
was looking at some pumps like this going forward, anyone else got any experience with these:

http://s.aliexpress.com/2qmeUZVf
Click to expand...
I'd like to hear what people have to say about these; it looks like there are plenty of suppliers for the comparable pump. I have a Chugger I use for high flow rates and one of the tan cheapies which is nice for mash recirc at low rates.

Max Capacity: 16/19 L/min
Rated Capacity: 8/12 L/min
Max Head :2.7/3.4 Meter
Rated Head:1.5 Meter
110V US Plug and 230V Europe plug Both available
​
I'm assuming the 1st values listed are for 110V US. However, I'm not sure what the Max vs Rated Capacity difference is, 2:1 for (assumed) US. I'd expect a fixed flow rate. Finally, the rated flow rate the same low 2.1 G/m as the tan cheapies.
 
wbarber69 said:
I don't think you know what you're arguing with me about.
Click to expand...

Indeed, it was a hasty response while I was standing in the lunch line...

But to the point you were trying to make there is a valve on the output of most vessels, these pumps are conducive to just being "loose" or part of the hose it self.

To you say you don't need flow control between 1.5 to 4 gpm just isn't true. I personally need flow control down to 1/4 gpm at times for RIMS recirculation.
 
cbier60 said:
I'd like to hear what people have to say about these; it looks like there are plenty of suppliers for the comparable pump. I have a Chugger I use for high flow rates and one of the tan cheapies which is nice for mash recirc at low rates.

Max Capacity: 16/19 L/min
Rated Capacity: 8/12 L/min
Max Head :2.7/3.4 Meter
Rated Head:1.5 Meter
110V US Plug and 230V Europe plug Both available
​
I'm assuming the 1st values listed are for 110V US. However, I'm not sure what the Max vs Rated Capacity difference is, 2:1 for (assumed) US. I'd expect a fixed flow rate. Finally, the rated flow rate the same low 2.1 G/m as the tan cheapies.
Click to expand...

the lower wattage 24v tan cheapies actually outflow some of them at 3.1-3.2 gallons per minute with a stronger head height value...

I do deal with those cheap ac pumps on the equipment I service and maintain... they wear out requiring replacement every couple years but they get a lot more use in plate processors for prepress than they would in a home brewery..some use the stainless head and some use plastic headed versions in both 240 and 120v.
I didnt bother with them because the flow rate is less than what I have and the pumps work well in my setup... I also dont want to be adding more ball valves to mess with either.. since I dont have to move hoses around they are not an ideal solution for me.

I recirculate my rims mash at 1.8 gpm myself but generally go a lot lower than that when sparging. I also have a single tier system so gravity flow doesnt work all that well for flow control. as it stands now I can write a script to automate the whole process if I just add the automated 3 way valves..

Another advantage to the tan pumps is they are waterproof making them flood proof as well :mug:
 

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