Cheap compact wort pump

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GHawk said:
12v-3a Power Supply to a

Toggle Switch breaking the current to a

PWM Controler All enclosed in a

Project Box

Butt Spliced into

12v 3a Pumps.

electrical-drawing-67539.jpg
Click to expand...



Why would I hear a very steady clicking sound from the power supply? About 100 clicks per minute when it's powered up and pump is switched OFF.

I noticed this and listened again when I turn the pump ON and it wasn't clicking while running.
 
augiedoggy said:
yes and it came with one of the wall wort ones that normally sell for like 3-5 bucks that was designed to power low amp elctrical devices like a router or camera... It may have an advertised rating of 1 amp but in reality it may not be able to handle a sustained load that large... Many of those power supplies are clones of someone elses design originally rated for less and they use even cheaper knock off components like no name capacitors and such which can often mean they dont perform as well as the originals they were modeled after...

I have had many many of these cheap wall wort supplies become unreliable and "sort of work" for example I bought a bunch of android tv boxes for myself and friends and had 3 of the power supplies act up causing the box to lock up or reboot. When I put a monitor on it the voltage was the correct amount of volts until you put a load on it and then it dropped...

in a nutshell , cheap crap power supply can = cheap crap power = crappy results... You could get lucky and have no issues or the pump could be working but be a lot weaker than it could be which was the results I had when I tried a cheap 1 amp power supply..
Click to expand...

It's a 12v 2A power supply that came with it. Works great for my needs. YMMV
 
This is my setup for pumping through my CFC

The output with my 24V pump set to max on the PWM is pretty low flow rate.
Could I put the outlet of the pump at the same elevation of the input to the chiller? or how can I provide more pumping power? It struggles in the current setup

20161009_114240.jpg
 
TorMag said:
It's a 12v 2A power supply that came with it. Works great for my needs. YMMV
Click to expand...

Ok but how do you know its a 2a power supply? because the sticker on the side says so? I bet if you thew an amp meter on it you would find these cheap generic supplies are like cheap stereo amplifiers... They are rated unrealistically by what they peaked in a for fraction of time rather than an rms load...thats because that type of supply was never intended to run a motor but maybe power a router or neon light on a wall clock...

If it works and your happy with it that all that really matters.. and it might be powering the pump fine.

When my 6amp original supply failure from a short I accidentally caused, I temporarily used a cheap 1 amp supply it worked too but the pump was noticeably struggling more and even got stuck at one point when it was hot which it never normally did which indicated something was wrong... when my replacement supply finally arrived I noticed a change in the way the pump performed the pwm controller response was instant and the pump would take off strong where before it was sluggish to start up.
 
Does anyone know how the frequency of the PWM effects the output? I see some are 13 kHz and some are 10 kHz ?
 
stever1000 said:
Does anyone know how the frequency of the PWM effects the output? I see some are 13 kHz and some are 10 kHz ?
Click to expand...

Yes... The higher frequency ones are better suited for driving motors such as these pumps... 21khz and up... The lower ones that you mentioned are for controlling led lighting they will make a lot of noise when driving the motor and it may be much less powerful due to the amount and speed of pulses of power in a given timeframe which effect the power level and control over the motor movement as well as the amount of heat generated by the motor but honestly I forgot a lot of what I read about it...

this is what I use...25khz..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/320910156730?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Theres no fancy readout which is honestly pointless since you can just as easily make reference marking around the dial but I understand the readout looks cooler. Thats more important it seems to some and that's their choice.. also to be fair, a lot of folks probably just saw others using them and didnt see the many posts following where I tried to give a heads up that the higher frequency ones were better suited to the task.. either will work but just like the 24v pumps work better than the 12v version or a 2amp power supply work better than a 1 amp, the higher frequency pwm controllers will work better to power the pump or so Ive read from researching it on other tech sites and forums.
 
augiedoggy said:
Yes... The higher frequency ones are better suited for driving motors such as these pumps... 21khz and up... The lower ones that you mentioned are for controlling led lighting they will make a lot of noise when driving the motor and it may be much less powerful due to the amount and speed of pulses of power in a given timeframe which effect the power level and control over the motor movement as well as the amount of heat generated by the motor but honestly I forgot a lot of what I read about it...

this is what I use...25khz..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/320910156730?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Theres no fancy readout which is honestly pointless since you can just as easily make reference marking around the dial but I understand the readout looks cooler. Thats more important it seems to some and that's their choice.. also to be fair, a lot of folks probably just saw others using them and didnt see the many posts following where I tried to give a heads up that the higher frequency ones were better suited to the task.. either will work but just like the 24v pumps work better than the 12v version or a 2amp power supply work better than a 1 amp, the higher frequency pwm controllers will work better to power the pump or so Ive read from researching it on other tech sites and forums.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the informative reply. I didn't understand the relationship of the different frequencies .

To add to my confusion, my PWM says its 500khz...
it's this one:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/12V-36V-Puls...-12V-24V-3A-/381375070029?hash=item58cbb9bf4d

Before I read this I also ordered another PWM yesterday but it is 13kHz...
 
Read into it some more

seems like most motors are driven at 25 kHz... this is above the audible range but still low enough that there are significant energy losses

so (if you can confirm) if my current PWM is 13 khz...that explains the "whining" i get from the pump. The new one I ordered is at 500khz and that will be too high of a frequency and cause inefficiencies/power loss and heat ?

dammit....
 
stever1000 said:
Read into it some more

seems like most motors are driven at 25 kHz... this is above the audible range but still low enough that there are significant energy losses

so (if you can confirm) if my current PWM is 13 khz...that explains the "whining" i get from the pump. The new one I ordered is at 500khz and that will be too high of a frequency and cause inefficiencies/power loss and heat ?

dammit....
Click to expand...
I knew the 20-25khz range was ideal but honestly it's been like 4 years since I read about it myself when I bought my pumps and controllers.
 
I think I will just order another one at 25 khz for my pump

What other uses for PWM are there? I don't have any LED's :D
 
Does anyone have any suggestions on waterproof/water resistant, low profile quick connectors for the pump leads? I have two pumps that I swap in and out in case one gets blocked or plugged. I would like to easily disconnect the pumps within 1' of the where the connections go into the pump body

Thanks:mug:
 
Killed a pump yesterday. Kept sticking. So tore it apart and pried the guts out. Broke the retaining disk.
 
stever1000 said:
Does anyone have any suggestions on waterproof/water resistant, low profile quick connectors for the pump leads? I have two pumps that I swap in and out in case one gets blocked or plugged. I would like to easily disconnect the pumps within 1' of the where the connections go into the pump body

Thanks:mug:
Click to expand...
you dont have to worry since its 12v/24v dc...

I learned with my setup the better investment was to use good filtration so theres no risk of plugging the pump. It can be done. I had one of my pumps stop pumping for the first time in over three years on Thursday when my false bottom wasnt installed correctly I have a bazooka tube under that with a braided stainless piece inside the bazooka tube... This prevented my pump from actually getting plugged but when the bazooka tube became plugged it choked off flow for the pump. besides this incident I have brewed 100s of gallons without even the slightest stuck flow or pump issue.
 
Wolfairious said:
Killed a pump yesterday. Kept sticking. So tore it apart and pried the guts out. Broke the retaining disk.
Click to expand...

spare parts for the replacement pump... thats what I kept the one I dropped and cracked for..:mug:

Out of the 7 I own I had one that kept sticking from the get go so I swapped the impeller assy with one from a pump I dropped and cracked and its bee fine since.. for whatever reason the plastic on the magnet wasnt molded very evenly it seems on that one and it fit tight so when the pump got hot and things expanded it rubbed.
 
augiedoggy said:
you dont have to worry since its 12v/24v dc...

I learned with my setup the better investment was to use good filtration so theres no risk of plugging the pump. It can be done. I had one of my pumps stop pumping for the first time in over three years on Thursday when my false bottom wasnt installed correctly I have a bazooka tube under that with a braided stainless piece inside the bazooka tube... This prevented my pump from actually getting plugged but when the bazooka tube became plugged it choked off flow for the pump. besides this incident I have brewed 100s of gallons without even the slightest stuck flow or pump issue.
Click to expand...

Good info, I will get a braided stainless piece from home depot :mug:
 
silly question ... looking at this 24volt pump. I have 24 volt outdoor lighting transformer that is just sitting in the garage ... will that power this pump?
 
Figured I would add my set up with this awesome little pump, currently going through its inaugural brew of a hoppy amber, sorry for the sideways pictures can't get them to go right

20161126_092708.jpg


20161126_092720.jpg
 
I have things wired up as shown in the picture. When I plugged in the power supply it burned up on me. Does the wiring look out of place. I pirated a switch from some other electrical equipment. For the switch on the - side there are two black wires coming out from the bottom. On the O side there is a blue and brown wire coming out. The switch was in the off position as in the picture. The 110V or 220V switch was in the 110V position pluged into a US outlet. Thanks.

24V Solar Pump.png
 
The switch is wired wrong. It should only break the hot side (+ Power) and the - Power should be wired directly to the PC board. You created a short wired that way.

EDIT: Sorry, the picture didn't match your description, I only see 2 connection points on the picture, not 4. I would still meter the switch and see if you created a short.
 
Konadog said:
The switch is wired wrong. It should only break the hot side (+ Power) and the - Power should be wired directly to the PC board. You created a short wired that way.

EDIT: Sorry, the picture didn't match your description, I only see 2 connection points on the picture, not 4. I would still meter the switch and see if you created a short.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your insight. I checked the wires and found out how things are connected. I just assumed the Brown and Blue wires were on the same side and that the Black wires were joined. It turns out the Brown wire and one of the Black wires on the same side are connected with the switch and and Blue and other Black wire on the same side of the switch are connected together. So I screwed the pooch on this one.

That's why I don't work so much with electricity and run into burning buildings.
 
TripleHopped said:
Thanks for your insight. I checked the wires and found out how things are connected. I just assumed the Brown and Blue wires were on the same side and that the Black wires were joined. It turns out the Brown wire and one of the Black wires on the same side are connected with the switch and and Blue and other Black wire on the same side of the switch are connected together. So I screwed the pooch on this one.

That's why I don't work so much with electricity and run into burning buildings.
Click to expand...

dont feel bad...I made a similiar mistake and burned out my first 24v supply for my 24v pumps and I DO work with electricity everyday... just made a careless mistake..
 
A couple of quick questions. My apologies if they have been asked before but this thread is long enough now that to wade through it is pretty onerous.
Are these pumps self priming?
Can they be placed in any orientation or do they have to be horizontal with the base down?
 
chordwizard said:
A couple of quick questions. My apologies if they have been asked before but this thread is long enough now that to wade through it is pretty onerous.
Are these pumps self priming?
Can they be placed in any orientation or do they have to be horizontal with the base down?
Click to expand...

They are not self priming so the pump should either be placed directly at the base of the kettle or lower in the system. orientation doesnt matter except your right in thinking they prime easier with one of the ports facing up. it doesnt matter which really you just dont want to encourage an air pocket.
 
Awesome, thanks. My hope was to mount it vertically and have the wort drop straight in and pump out the side.
 
Good to know, thanks. Probably take the KISS route and just position it so that the outlet is pointing up and not have to worry about it.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. Much appreciated!
 

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