Brewmasters warehouse can't ship within Georgia?

[dontman]

You know what, at this point I am just going to back out of this. But first I am prepared to say that I over reacted to the one post I quoted above calling for the boycott. I actually reread looking for more and there was only one other post that I saw where he said that even though the competitor is a nice guy with good helpful employees that he was not going to shop there anymore.

I will say though, Ed, that you really can not hold it against someone for drawing a wrong conclusion when you spoon feed chosen details and withhold others.

I can't believe in this litigious day and age that a company can officially approve a location for distribution rights in writing, sign a contract to that effect, have you spend the thousands of dollars in start up costs and other fees, and then simply refuse to honor the contract and renege on the deal. And then demand that you sign a revised contract nullifying the first one? Is this specifically what you are saying your distributor did to you?

Because if that, specifically, is what you are saying happened to you, then you have every right to be outraged and even litigious.

 

[zac]

Dontman:

One way to get what you want is to "vote" with your dollars. I vote with my dollars all the time. If we as consumers don't like a business practices, we still have the right (some might argue the responsibility (sp)) to make our choices felt by the way we spend our over-taxed dollars. I vote with my dollars everytime I part with them. I have places that I simply don't do business with because I don't agree with their business practices. It's not like I'm going to shut down Wal-Mart or McDonalds, but hey, my dollars don't go to them.

If other retailers in the greater ATL area were really concerned that a "new guy" was getting hosed by the distributor, then they would be screaming for fair competition. They would be worried that the distrib would do the same to them. "You can't sell to Ga customers? Give me a break. What are they worried about? I don't see them calling for the distrib. to quit monkey-a$$ing around with Ed, so in my book, they support what this distrib. is doing. Sometimes what you don't say is WAY more important than what you do say.

All this said, I have no dog in this fight. I don't live in Ga. I don't consider BMW my LHBS, but what is happening to him is wrong. Deals like this just cry of something NOT RIGHT. I own a small contracting business, and I have walked on several deals that would have been very lucrative, but folks wanted stuff changed after we signed on the dotted line.

I do know Ed is a fair person, a decent guy, and is living his dream, which is what this country was founded upon. I think it's pretty $hitty that he could be brought down by a deal that absolutely happend in a back room somewhere that involved his competition complaining. In my business, I 100% encourage my local competition. Its good for me & it's good for my customers. We both win. I keep prices low, & customers get a better product in the end. I'm great freinds with "the other guy" and we colloberate on projects quite often when we're both too busy to maintain our own standards.

Sorry bout the spelling mistakes. I didnt use spell check.

/rant off

 

[zac]

dontman,

Didnt see your last post before I typed mine.

 

[Donner]

You know what, at this point I am just going to back out of this. But first I am prepared to say that I over reacted to the one post I quoted above calling for the boycott. I actually reread looking for more and there was only one other post that I saw where he said that even though the competitor is a nice guy with good helpful employees that he was not going to shop there anymore.

I will say though, Ed, that you really can not hold it against someone for drawing a wrong conclusion when you spoon feed chosen details and withhold others.

I can't believe in this litigious day and age that a company can officially approve a location for distribution rights in writing, sign a contract to that effect, have you spend the thousands of dollars in start up costs and other fees, and then simply refuse to honor the contract and renege on the deal. And then demand that you sign a revised contract nullifying the first one? Is this specifically what you are saying your distributor did to you?

Because if that, specifically, is what you are saying happened to you, then you have every right to be outraged and even litigious.

Long threads make things run together. I don't think anyone holds anything against you. Several of us have dealt with Ed and hold him in high regard. I'm personally inclined to believe what he tells us. I think we came to his aide quickly because we felt you weren't following what he had said in previous posts, which you later admitted you didn't see the first time around.

I think everyone can agree it is a crappy situation for him and that the people in GA are especially hurt because Ed runs a great business and they should have the option of working with him if they choose.

no harm, no foul. Now, i personally suggest you give brewmaster's warehouse a try (providing you aren't in GA). I think you'll be impressed.

 

[dontman]

dontman,

Didnt see your last post before I typed mine.

Doesn't change the validity of what you said in your post. As per usual I agree with what you posted.

I agree especially with two things you said:

"Sometimes what you don't say is WAY more important than what you do say." This was kinda my point to Ed in my first post.

And this: "I have no dog in this fight." I really don't have a dog in this fight, so I should just stay out of it. ( Not that I would put a dog in a fight, to you Atlanta people who might be sensitive to that topic. ) OTOH, I have been following it closely because as I have alluded I am busily putting my plans to open a LHBS in place and now I am very worried about the Distributor reneging on any agreement that we write at their whim.

 

[zac]

Dontman,
Sweet. We agree.

I'm sorta the stand up for the little guy type. (But I work for the Gov't..go figure)

I have a buddy that travels to Philly quite often, if you open up a shop, I will throw some business your way.

Cheers dude. I think we were disagreeing (sp?? again) over something we agreed on in the end.

Ed is a good guy. He deserves his fair shot, just like everybody in this great country does. If you open a LHBS, i hope you have more business than you know what to do with!

 

[dontman]

Dontman,
Sweet. We agree.

I'm sorta the stand up for the little guy type. (But I work for the Gov't..go figure)

Maybe Ed's company is bigger than the distributor. JK!

I owned a distribution company for 8 years covering the Ohio Valley region and a lot of my customers were bigger than I was. I wrote a lot of contracts. Never rewrote one once.

Ed's Little Distribution Company is giving distributors a bad name though.

 

[zac]

Maybe they deserve it, with what information we have been given in this thread.
I'm in bed. 0400 comes early.

 

[Revvy]

Based on my experience, and what I went through, you may have a problem with the other LHBS being 3 miles away. The magic number thrown around when I was choosing a location was 25 miles, and that was from a winery with an on premise wine making. I do not even sell wine anything to give you an idea on how strict things can get.

I read this thread with interest but was going to stay out of it until I saw this post.


I live in a town with a population of 32338 that is 12.2 square miles in size... I have a Lhbs, a Wine on premises shop that sells some homebrew equipment AND a beer store with a small aisle of homebrew ingredients and equipment The LHBs and the winery are less than 5 miles apart...and the winery and beer shop are less than a half mile apart, on the same road....



And in the suburbs of Detroit, there are several LHBS within 7-10 miles of each other.

Just so you know, your situation is the exception and not the rule.

 

[de_ronde]

Conspiring with other retailers not to compete in a geographic area to keep prices there high is akin to price fixing and monopoly and is against the law.

 

[SumnerH]

Conspiring with other retailers not to compete in a geographic area to keep prices there high is akin to price fixing and monopoly and is against the law.

Yes. Conspiring between a distributor and their own retailers is allowed, though, _if_ it doesn't affect competition with other brands (only intrabrand competition).

 

[IrregularPulse]

I read this thread with interest but was going to stay out of it until I saw this post.
I live in a town with a population of 32338 that is 12.2 square miles in size... I have a Lhbs, a Wine on premises shop that sells some homebrew equipment AND a beer store with a small aisle of homebrew ingredients and equipment The LHBs and the winery are less than 5 miles apart...and the winery and beer shop are less than a half mile apart, on the same road....
And in the suburbs of Detroit, there are several LHBS within 7-10 miles of each other.

oohh ahh I'm Revvy and I have access to 157 HBSs!

But seriously, This doesn't sound right to me but I'm sure there's more than meets the eye, but I wouldn't have mentioned any of it here unless you wanted to spill it all. I hope you get what you need to succeed, but I won't be purchasing from you just because this whole thread throws a scent of Sketch into the air IMO.
The whole fact that you don't want to spend money on a lawyer for it is weird for me. How can you have a business and NOT talk with some lawyers. Protect yourself. I have to admit the first 7-8 (apprx guess) pages had me thinking Mob!
Hopefully everything works out for you and you business strives. I don't wish failure on any HBS.
But to those who are talking about devoting all your orders to this guy because he isn't willing to stand up for himself, Don't forget about your LHBS's who never did anything to deserve getting dissed. They are helping your community as well! Not saying don't order from this place, just don't forget the guy that's been good to you for years because this guy got himself in a bind.

 

[Revvy]

oohh ahh I'm Revvy and I have access to 157 HBSs!

Jealous much???

Why do you think the Michigan contingent us so huge on here? There's at least 20 shops in Michigan that I know of, and over 50 brewpubs or breweries...We likes our beer here...

 

[Brewmasters Warehouse]

The whole fact that you don't want to spend money on a lawyer for it is weird for me. How can you have a business and NOT talk with some lawyers.

I have spoken to lawyers about this situation, although I do admit that I did not want to spend the money on them. Thank you to everyone that has encouraged me to go see a lawyer, as it has made me feel a little better about the situation. Just so everyone knows, one of the reasons I did not go see a lawyer right away, is that I am fairly well versed in the UCC and have dealt with many clients in tough situations, like mine, from my time working as an accountant in a CPA firm.

After meeting with them I found out exactly what I thought was true. If I went the legal route I would have a small chance to win the case, and that if I did win the case then I would end up in the same situation as I would be in if I simply walked away from the agreement, only I would have burnt bridges with the distributor, and ran up legal bills that would be substantial.

The bottom line when it comes to suing someone in this case is, to sue them trying to accomplish what? To punish them for backing out on the original agreement, sure it would punish them and leave me high and dry with the distributor. Go get another distributor to replace the original one. That is much easier said then done. Sue them to force them to honor the original agreement. The lawyers said there is no way I would win.

Even the lawyers agreed that I am in a tough spot, and that the best course currently for my business is to continue doing what I am doing.


Ed

 

[Orfy]

I don't think any one was suggesting suing any one but that doesn't mean what hey are doing is right.
Yes it is a very tricky situation. You're between a rock and a hard place.
I hope business is brisk enough to take you're mind off it.
It must be frustrating for local the customers that you are refusing to do business with because of the distributors.
If I was them I really would order from out of state rather than give the profit to the distributor.

 

[zac]

lookout Orfy. Last time I said what you said in your last line... I kinda got jumped on a little bit...for just mentioning it.

 

[dontman]

I don't think any one was suggesting suing any one but that doesn't mean what hey are doing is right.
Yes it is a very tricky situation. You're between a rock and a hard place.
I hope business is brisk enough to take you're mind off it.
It must be frustrating for local the customers that you are refusing to do business with because of the distributors.
If I was them I really would order from out of state rather than give the profit to the distributor.

The distributor is national and supplying most of those with whom they would shop anyway.

A couple notable exceptions would be the larger online vendors.

If you really care you could boycott every manufacturer that the distributor represents. They are the ones who ultimately dictate how the distributor acts anyway.

 

[Beerrific]

It must be frustrating for local the customers that you are refusing to do business with because of the distributors.
If I was them I really would order from out of state rather than give the profit to the distributor.

This is pretty much what I plan on doing.

The distributor is national and supplying most of those with whom they would shop anyway.

A couple notable exceptions would be the larger online vendors.

Yup, those are the shops that are getting my business. There are other (not local) shops as well that buy from a differnt supplier/distributor. I will shop at these stores as well.

If you really care you could boycott every manufacturer that the distributor represents. They are the ones who ultimately dictate how the distributor acts anyway.

I could also stop buying from US companies because this is apparently legal (and I have a feeling it is pretty common). But I will not be silly about it, have to draw the line somewhere.

 

[brrman]

Ed called me one night to tell me that one item in my order - a $2 racking cane clip was not available right away and would ship a day or two later... Called me on the phone for that!! Keep what you're doing, Ed and you'll have my business forever.

Georgia might want you (which is a good thing), but you don't need Georgia to run a successful business and livelyhood. I understand your predicament, and I know full well from experience that simply because something is not right or fair it doesn't mean the US justice system will stand up for the oppressed. The legal costs would cripple you, your distributor would ignore you, and all your dreams go down the toilet.

You don't need to martyr yourself like that. A lot of the outspoken people here, to their credit, see the wrong in the situation, but not the reality of yours. Grow your business to the point where you can approach manufacturers or other distributors directly - I have a feeling that was your idea anyways.

Good luck!!
Bryan R

 

[Brewmasters Warehouse]

Orfy - You are right about the suing. Nearly all of the conversation was directed around injuctions, and court proceedings, not suing. Poor choice of words on my part.

Dontman - I know you are looking into setting up a shop, if you ever want to know anything about some of the things I learned actually getting going, give me a call anytime.

Brrman - Thanks for your support, we will of course continue giving the customer service people deserve.


Ed

 

[Revvy]

Ed, I think you must realized, by ALL the comments on this thread...that we respect you..and we look at you as an HBT brother...one of us...and that we want you to succeed!!!

AND that we look after our own....

 

[Brewmasters Warehouse]

I very much feel that way, and it feels good.

Ed

 

[llazy_llama]

AND that we look after our own....

Hell yes. For the longest time I bought exclusively from Midwest. After a few conversations with Forrest, and threads like this one with Ed, I said goodbye to them. Ed and Forrest seem like great guys, and they're our guys. Unless they just don't have what I need, I'll be buying through them from now on. Keep up the great work, you two.

 

[rhomer]

So what if you simply ignore the agreement and sell to locals? What are the ramifications? What about setting up a different named business to sell to locals?

 

[Kungpaodog]

I just read this whole thread, and now I've got blue balls. There's no ending! What's the status?

 

[Kronin]

sounds like a supplier issue... "This is a matter that deals with protected area within a distribution chain. "
many supplier sources (for any product) will protect territory of their distributers so there is not too much competition with themselves....

 

[Brewmasters Warehouse]

I just read this whole thread, and now I've got blue balls. There's no ending! What's the status?

The status is currently the same, as it has been. The petition is now up to 105 sigs, which is a great start, and shows some good interest in having the store open. I keep working towards opening everyday.

So I am afraid you may have to ice the berries down for a while.

Ed

 

[davesrose]

I too just happened on this thread while I was trying to look up more info about what ever happened to the chance of BMW becoming a local retailer. Shoot! Would love to throw more business your way, Ed. But I can only imagine what kind of hurdles a merchant has to go through to get on distributers good sides. And I suspect it's harder in Georgia. Don't know if it's related, but I've heard the same frustrations over beer distribution. Last weekend I was at a package store that seemed to have a good beer selection. One of the employees came over to ask if there was anything in particular I was looking for. On a whim, I mentioned that I had heard good things about Pliny the Elder. He'd never heard of it, so I googled to see who the brewer was. He mentioned he never heard of Russian River, and that it might a beer that they couldn't get nor any national internet site could sell to me. That apparently GA is part of a distribution tier that only allows one distributer. He said that wine buyers/makers were more on target and have gotten those laws changed....but with beer, it's still in the books. That's probably a seperate petition.....

I've already signed the petition and I'll keep an eye out to see when you might be able to sell to GA folks. Previously you mentioned something about physical distance.....maybe the best scenario is that your internet business booms so big that you can easily open a retail location far from the other retailers. In all likelihood, it might still be less of a drive for me then if I currently need to make an emergancy run to a LHBS.

No matter if and when you are able to sell to GA, best of luck!

 

[Kungpaodog]

The status is currently the same, as it has been. The petition is now up to 105 sigs, which is a great start, and shows some good interest in having the store open. I keep working towards opening everyday.

So I am afraid you may have to ice the berries down for a while.

Ed

Thanks for the update. I wish you the best and I hope that all turns out well for you, Ed. I can't say that I'll be ordering anything from you since my LHBS treats me well and I believe in supporting local shops, but if the responses from everyone here are indicative of your service then your shop should have a long and healthy life ahead of it.

 

[Orfy]

Here's a thought.

Ship from outa town. for GA packages......

 

[camiller]

I read this thread with interest but was going to stay out of it until I saw this post.


I live in a town with a population of 32338 that is 12.2 square miles in size... I have a Lhbs, a Wine on premises shop that sells some homebrew equipment AND a beer store with a small aisle of homebrew ingredients and equipment The LHBs and the winery are less than 5 miles apart...and the winery and beer shop are less than a half mile apart, on the same road....



And in the suburbs of Detroit, there are several LHBS within 7-10 miles of each other.

Just so you know, your situation is the exception and not the rule.

Heh, the LHBS I work part time at is about half a block from the other LHBS. I could almost throw a rock from our back door through his.


Ed.

Best of luck to you. If I ever need anything I can't order myself I'll keep you in mind.

 

[Sizz]

Outdated i know but I just wanted to chime in and say that this remains truly unfair. There's only one store on the north side which has decent prices and good stock. While BMW may be only 20miles away, it's actually quite a difference in commute due to our wonderful highway architecture. I live up 75 in Kennesaw and in order to get to the 'Local' HBS the quickest, I have to go south on 75 for 15 miles, east on 285 for 6 miles, then back north on 400 for 13 miles, basically making a large 'U'. Add in the fact that metro Atlanta is ranked 12th in traffic congestion and one could see why many Georgians are getting screwed. I have switched to online only but would love to support a truly local business. Please sign the petition for us.

 

[masonsjax]

Ed, is there any update on this? I'm not in Georgia, but I'm curious. Would be cool if the situation gets resolved.

 

[Brewmasters Warehouse]

Ed, is there any update on this? I'm not in Georgia, but I'm curious. Would be cool if the situation gets resolved.

Still no update as of yet. Still actively working on it, but I beleive that the other local stores may be having a rough year which makes it even harder to get some movement on this issue.

 

[masonsjax]

Maybe they'll all go belly-up, then you'll be free and clear
j/k of course, don't wish hard times on anyone.

 

[limulus]

signed it.

 

[Brewmasters Warehouse]

signed it.

Thank you very much.

 

[Brewmasters Warehouse]

I am very pleased to announce that our long struggle to open to customers in Georgia is as of now over. Effective immediately we are shipping to customers within Georgia and have an instore pickup option for local customers.

We are in the process of changing the store over from a stricty online operation to a full blown retail location. We will have regular retail store hours coming very soon. If you are in the area you can stop by and we will of course take care of you, just please do not mind all of the rearranging taking place.

I want to especially thank everyone that has ordered from us, and signed the petition. This was resolved due to the tremendous growth that we have had over the time we have been open. Without you guys none of this would have happened.

Now it is time for some:

Thank You,

Ed

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

AWESOME! Congratulations to you. I will hoist one tonight in your honor.

 

[Brewmasters Warehouse]

AWESOME! Congratulations to you. I will hoist one tonight in your honor.

I will be hoisting many tonight, and I thank you for your support.