beer tastes like star san

[beerhound28]

Hello everyone
I have heard hundreds of people say " star san does not affect flavor" bla bla bla..anyway i find this to be complete BS..i always brew my beer with as much care as possible..i am very crazy about my sanitation and process..but once again my beer taste like what star san smells like...i never tasted star san straight but it has a smell..maybe citrusy IDK..its ruining my beer..i use 1 oz per 5 gallon dilution just like it says to use ..anybody know whats up with this? is it maybe my water supply having a diverse reaction with it? all i do is spend money and more money to brew some beer..but so far i cannot make drinkable beer its been like 3 years now since i started..one F$#$ up after the other..just a disgrace..along with other off flavors and failures..i cannot quit the hobby..soon i will need to go to fermenters Anonymous..WTF?

 

[madcow_number_6]

What are your fementation temps like?

 

[funkapottomous]

I doubt its your star san unless you're a super taster.

Is your ferm temp well controlled?

 

[beerhound28]

What are your fementation temps like?

i always keep my fermentation temps at 62*-68*

 

[Cambone]

Have someone with a lot of experience brewing/tasting and see if they point to starsan as the flavour. Don't tell them ahead of time so you don't influence their opinion.

I've racked onto an inch of starsan with no noticeable effect on the taste of my beer.

 

[gstrawn]

Hello everyone
I have heard hundreds of people say " star san does not affect flavor" bla bla bla..anyway i find this to be complete BS..i always brew my beer with as much care as possible..i am very crazy about my sanitation and process..but once again my beer taste like what star san smells like...i never tasted star san straight but it has a smell..maybe citrusy IDK..its ruining my beer..i use 1 oz per 5 gallon dilution just like it says to use ..anybody know whats up with this? is it maybe my water supply having a diverse reaction with it? all i do is spend money and more money to brew some beer..but so far i cannot make drinkable beer its been like 3 years now since i started..one F$#$ up after the other..just a disgrace..along with other off flavors and failures..i cannot quit the hobby..soon i will need to go to fermenters Anonymous..WTF?

Alright man relax! Star san doesn't have much flavor at all. I've tasted it, not really intentionally but if anything its just a little sour. I really doubt that's the issue. I don't know what the off flavor is, but maybe if you listed your process we could figure out what might be the culprit.

 

[beerhound28]

I doubt its your star san unless you're a super taster.

Is your ferm temp well controlled?

i usually ferment in a cool room(ambient 50's) and pretty controlled..but im at the end of the road for "quessing" im gonna go get a controller and a fridge or chest freezer and hopefully i can get some good beer

 

[madcow_number_6]

Mayhaps its the yeasties? Wyeast 1056, White labs 025 and 380 all are said to produce some citrusy flavors.

 

[beerhound28]

Alright man relax! Star san doesn't have much flavor at all. I've tasted it, not really intentionally but if anything its just a little sour. I really doubt that's the issue. I don't know what the off flavor is, but maybe if you listed your process we could figure out what might be the culprit.

Alright..my process for my most recent disaster..

2 liter pacman starter
I mashed in at 162*
my target was 152*
i achieved 150*
rested for 60 mins
did not sparge
boiled for 60 mins normally added hops at 60 mins etc
cooled the wort very quickly to 68-70
while i was mashing i was cleaning/sanitizing my gear
aerated the work by shaking for about 45 seconds -1 min
pitched yeast
kept temp in the mid 60's for 2 weeks
did the 3 day hydrometer..OG 1.060 FG 1.010


when i bottle
i add the priming solution to bottling bucket -1oz per gallon
bottle
wait 2 weeks to carb
condition for another 2 then drink it(try to drink it)
I wish i could relax but i must have spent 2-5 Gs and its been a complete waste of dough

 

[jholen]

How are you supplying your brewing water?

I had my first two brews turn out with something similar to what you describe - I came to the conclusion it was due chlorinated water/fermenting at room temps. I've since moved to using a carbon filter for my water and using a rubbermaid cooler filled with water up to the beer line of my carboy with an insulated lid to control my temps.

 

[poislb]

What are you brewing, all grain? extract? are you using starters, under pitching perhaps. Low effecicancy with all grain? There are so many varibles to a bad batch, infections could be your issue as well. Ive drank star san before cause I wanted "to know" what was being left behind in my beer after I sanitize. Its almost taste less, maybe a bit sour but will "not" make your beer undrinkable. Maybe try using one step on your next batch and see if theres a differance, or iodaphor (sp)

Whats your water like, try using store bought water..

 

[beerhound28]

bottled spring water

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

The main ingredient in StarSan is phosphoric acid, so a "lemon like/acid like" flavor wouldn't be too far-fetched.

You may be more sensitive to it than other people.

I don't use StarSan so I can't tell of of the flavor.

MC

 

[beerhound28]

i brew AG and i always use starters..i used 2 smack packs of pacman on my last starter..i know im not underpitching.

 

[poislb]

Thats a hard one then, if its not geting infected I have no idea whats going on. Your process seems very good, explain the undrinkable part. Does it taste acidic or sour, or something else?

 

[beerhound28]

The main ingredient in StarSan is phosphoric acid, so a "lemon like/acid like" flavor wouldn't be too far-fetched.

You may be more sensitive to it than other people.

I don't use StarSan so I can't tell of of the flavor.

MC

i think i might be cause i seem like the only person who can taste it also smell it in my brew..im gonna try another sanitizer.

 

[D0ug]

Try switching one step sanitizers and post back, maybe you are a super taster.

Cr4p-tastick super power if that's the case, because it's so popular. So if you're at a tasting at a brew club or a show, you might be in for a lot of unpalatable samples.

 

[D0ug]

whoops, you beat me to it. Good Luck

 

[beerhound28]

Thats a hard one then, if its not geting infected I have no idea whats going on. Your process seems very good, explain the undrinkable part. Does it taste acidic or sour, or something else?

It starts with the "star san" citrus notes then finishes with a stale wine taste..did you ever get a wiff of an empty wine glass after its been drunk? like that ...and star san mixed with maybe a little vinyl/plastic thrown in ..very horrid stuff to drink

 

[beerhound28]

Try switching one step sanitizers and post back, maybe you are a super taster.

Cr4p-tastick super power if that's the case, because it's so popular. So if you're at a tasting at a brew club or a show, you might be in for a lot of unpalatable samples.

Yeah like i said before i cant quit this hobby if i wanted to..i really want to brew beer forever even though i never had a success yet..when i get my stainless conical..i will sanitize with heat ..maybe then i will succeed

 

[beerhound28]

anyway thank you to everyone who chimed in on my post..hope yall make good beer

 

[poislb]

It starts with the "star san" citrus notes then finishes with a stale wine taste..did you ever get a wiff of an empty wine glass after its been drunk? like that ...and star san mixed with maybe a little vinyl/plastic thrown in ..very horrid stuff to drink

My best suggestion, try a different sanitizer and replace all hoses, tubes and see if that helps. Best of luck bud.

Also, what kinda styles ya making? would dms or possibly oxidiziation be a factor? Never experianced either but may be a factor. You boil with the lid on or off? just trying to narrow it down for ya bro, hate to see ya struggling, it should be a fun hobby and not stressful.

 

[beerhound28]

My best suggestion, try a different sanitizer and replace all hoses, tubes and see if that helps. Best of luck bud.

Also, what kinda styles ya making? would dms or possibly oxidiziation be a factor? Never experianced either but may be a factor. You boil with the lid on or off? just trying to narrow it down for ya bro, hate to see ya struggling, it should be a fun hobby and not stressful.

I always try to brew belgian styles.. i have tried to brew belgian golden strongs more then anything else..my last batch that i was explaining was a smash batch 2 row and goldings and pacman yeast ..strangly even though i never made a good batch its still fun ..i will get it ..just will take a couple hundred dumpers to get there ..thanks alot cheers

 

[DarthMalt]

It starts with the "star san" citrus notes then finishes with a stale wine taste..did you ever get a wiff of an empty wine glass after its been drunk? like that ...and star san mixed with maybe a little vinyl/plastic thrown in ..very horrid stuff to drink

Stale wine sounds like oxidation to me: it can be almost like a nasty sherry flavor. Interesting though, because vinyl/plastic sounds like infection or phenols. And citrus? That sounds like yeast esters to me.

Out of curiosity, I've tasted Star San before and it's just not a flavor or scent that would show up in 5 gallons of beer. I'd be incredibly surprised if it even showed up in 1 gallon of beer. Unless, for whatever reason, about a cup was mixed in with the gallon. I'd honestly put money on it that it's not the Star San you're detecting.

 

[beerhound28]

My best suggestion, try a different sanitizer and replace all hoses, tubes and see if that helps. Best of luck bud.

Also, what kinda styles ya making? would dms or possibly oxidiziation be a factor? Never experianced either but may be a factor. You boil with the lid on or off? just trying to narrow it down for ya bro, hate to see ya struggling, it should be a fun hobby and not stressful.

oh yeah never brew with lid on and always try to prevent oxidation..im pretty prudent with my brewing maybe i have psycho wild yeast in my house

 

[lou2row]

Try an experiment. Rinse a five gallon fermenter with starsan. Drain as much as possible. Fill with five gallons water. Let set for a short period of time. Have someone else set up four glasses of water, with one of them being the water from the fermenter. See if you can pick it, and how pronounced the taste is, and if it tastes of what you speak. This will dictate if you are indeed that sensitive to the starsan, and if it is what you are tasting.

Process of elimination for all the variables.

 

[pivovar]

I hear you OP. I've also been brewing for just over 3 years with variable (often crappy) results, until recently. I changed a lot of different things: all grain, water, boil intensity / length, mash ph, sanitizer brands etc without much success. At the same time I assumed that since my lag time was short and fermentation looked happy, active and quick, that the problem was surely not yeast related. Eventually I noticed that when I made a 1.040 or smaller beer it would be pretty clean and nearly off flavor free while it was my 1.050+ beers that were always tasting a bit off when compared to store-bought stuff. There it was a Eureka moment when I finally connected the dots (after hearing it time and time again from Jamil in his TBN podcasts) that it was likely the phenols caused by under-pitching and yeast stress due to lack of oxygen in the wort during the reproduction phase. Big healthy starters combined with aggressive wort aeration finally solved it for me.

FWIW, I've also tasted Star San, and it didn't taste much like anything. I don't think it's to blame.

 

[kh54s10]

Start changing things to see what the change is. I would start with your water and sanitizer.

I would be VERY surprised if it is the Starsan unless you are extremely sensitive to the taste.

I have used Starsan since last August, about 13 beers. I have not had any bad beers and can not attribute any tastes to the Starsan.

Maybe you could contact a local club or LHBS and do a brew with someone to see if they find anything off in your procedures.

 

[beerhound28]

hmmm i am gonna put extra care into preventing oxidation even though i always do but now more then ever..but if its an infection i really dont think i can do more to prevent it i sanitize my gear and every single little piece very carefully.

 

[DarthMalt]

Try an experiment. Rinse a five gallon fermenter with starsan. Drain as much as possible. Fill with five gallons water. Let set for a short period of time. Have someone else set up four glasses of water, with one of them being the water from the fermenter. See if you can pick it, and how pronounced the taste is, and if it tastes of what you speak. This will dictate if you are indeed that sensitive to the starsan, and if it is what you are tasting.

Process of elimination for all the variables.

I think you'd have to fill the fermenter and glasses with beer, not water.

EDIT: although, if you can't detect it in water, you sure as heck can't detect it in beer.

 

[Reelale]

Do you usually use the same hops? You mentioned EKG, which to me has a somewhat earthy flavor as a bittering hop. Fuggles too, IMO. You might try making a weak hop tea and see if you can detect the off flavors you notice in your beers. Maybe old hops? I wouldn't think starsan, at the concentrations we use, would be noticeable. Just a thought.

 

[dbsmith]

I would also save a few bottles from every batch and see how they taste months later rather than just dumping the whole thing. Maybe you already do this, but if not give it a try.

 

[beerhound28]

Try an experiment. Rinse a five gallon fermenter with starsan. Drain as much as possible. Fill with five gallons water. Let set for a short period of time. Have someone else set up four glasses of water, with one of them being the water from the fermenter. See if you can pick it, and how pronounced the taste is, and if it tastes of what you speak. This will dictate if you are indeed that sensitive to the starsan, and if it is what you are tasting.

Process of elimination for all the variables.

actually will do

 

[beerhound28]

I would also save a few bottles from every batch and see how they taste months later rather than just dumping the whole thing. Maybe you already do this, but if not give it a try.

NO i never literally dump beer always drink them(even if it unbearable)..i just call them dumpers if they are not good enough to share with friends and family

 

[beerhound28]

Do you usually use the same hops? You mentioned EKG, which to me has a somewhat earthy flavor as a bittering hop. Fuggles too, IMO. You might try making a weak hop tea and see if you can detect the off flavors you notice in your beers. Maybe old hops? I wouldn't think starsan, at the concentrations we use, would be noticeable. Just a thought.

not east kents's just regular usa grown goldings..after all these comments i am starting to think that star san may not be the culprit ..i am gonna run some test and see if you all are right about the sensitivity thing

 

[madcow_number_6]

random question: Is the drain in your dishwasher clogged?

I had some off flavors (dusty, plasticy, soapy) in several bottles of a beer that was mighty tasty a couple of days before. Come to find out it wasn't the beer. It was the glasses not getting rinsed well enough.

 

[beerhound28]

random question: Is the drain in your dishwasher clogged?

I had some off flavors (dusty, plasticy, soapy) in several bottles of a beer that was mighty tasty a couple of days before. Come to find out it wasn't the beer. It was the glasses not getting rinsed well enough.

no def not cause i never wash my beer glasses with dish soap
and when i do wash then always hand wash them with a tiny dash of pbw

 

[SittingDuck]

not east kents's just regular usa grown goldings..after all these comments i am starting to think that star san may not be the culprit ..i am gonna run some test and see if you all are right about the sensitivity thing

But do you always use US goldings? Same issue, if you use the same hops, the citrusy notes could certainly be from that (although I don't think of goldings as citrusy on general).

 

[beerhound28]

oh no..i have used many varieties fuggles,saaz,cascades,goldings,warriors,many more..always get that same taste though FSR

 

[beerhound28]

once again thank you all for chiming in..happy brewing and cheers