How to Get Gelatin into Pressurized Beer?

[Clint Yeastwood]

I want to do two things with my latest beer, which is already carbonated: fine it with gelatin and transfer it to a keg under pressure with no oxygen exposure.

Seems like it will be harder to do both things together than either by itself. I have syringes and so on to shoot gelatin into the serving keg or the fermenting keg, but jamming it in there when they are both pressurized sounds like a challenge.

I plan to fill the serving keg with water and Star San, pump it out with CO2, and then fill the keg with beer using a tube and disconnects. I'm thinking I'll release the pressure in the fermentation keg, shoot the gelatin in, pump the keg back up, and then transfer. Will this work?

Maybe I can shoot the gelatin into the serving keg instead, but I would lose more CO2 that way.

How are people preparing sanitized gelatin in syringes? Do you just heat it in a pan and pour it into a syringe you've hosed with Star San?

 

[pvtpublic]

If you slowly release the pressure, then you shouldn't have too much to worry about other than a possible volcano from shooting the gelatin in there.

 

[DuncB]

Simple, flush your serve keg, doesn't matter if it has a couple of psi in it.
Sanitise 60ml luec lock syringe.
Get some silicone tube of diameter external that will fit in by screwing onto end of syringe. Other end of silicone to liquid ball lock connector.
Flush this through with sanitiser.
Detach and suck up gelatin, I use biofine instead.
Attach silicone and ball lock, push pin down on ball lock and squeeze syringe until liquid comes out so no air in system.
Spray sanitise liquid post and ball lock and then attach and inject.
Your choice of fermenter or serving keg.
I do keep my hand over syringe plunger but never had it force it's way out.
You can also do it with small pet bottle and kegland T piece adapter and their red plastic connection to it and length of tubing with ball lock connectors on and use CO2 to purge it in.

 

[SonomaBrewer]

is what I do as well, albeit prior to force carbonating. Works quite well. Curious how fining will work with carbonated beer.

 

[ba-brewer]

Gelatin works fine on carbonated beer.

I use a small PET soda bottle with a carbonation cap and a short jumper with two gas gas disconnects to transfer gelatin into a carbonated keg. Fill the bottle with hot gelatin, squeeze out the air then pressure to 30PSI, depressurize the keg some before connecting the jumper and bottle, whoosh most is transferred right away might need a second pressurizing to get it all. No mixing just let it settle.

 

[Beermeister32]

Don’t overthink this. Build yourself an injector with a meat injector from Lowes. This type won’t allow the plunger to shoot out the end.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Thanks for all the help. I quit buying flavor injectors when I discovered veterinary syringes. I already have some big ones I got for this purpose.

I plan to add gelatin to the fermenting keg in order to avoid using up more CO2 than I need to.

I don't know anything about biofine, so I will look it up for later use.

 

[Bobby_M]

You can thread 4mm ID EVA tubing into a leurlok syringe. Then put the other end on a gas QD. If you keep the syringe smaller than 1" diameter, about 20mL, you can easily push against about 8psi.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I put the gelatin in when I kegged the beer, using a veterinary syringe, EVAbarrier, and a Duotight disconnect. I put the beer on around 12 psi in a 35-degree keezer. Incredibly, I failed to enter the date in Beersmith, but it looks like it was 10/6, so the gelatin has been in there around 4 days. I used a teaspoon and a half of Knox gelatin in around 4 ounces of water, because that's about what my syringes hold. I dissolved it in between something like 148-155 degrees.

Still a bit cloudy with yeast bite just becoming acceptable by my generous standards. I have a Flotit in there, so I'm drawing from the top. Seems like a long time for gelatin to work, but I haven't used it much. I see some people saying two days will get it done, but others say 5 to 10.

I love this beer, but I'm starting to think it's just an India Pale Lager. Maybe I should make it with ale yeast.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Well, until just now, I had no idea India Pale Lager existed. I thought I was making a clever joke, but the web says it's a real thing.

 

[Brooothru]

Don’t overthink this. Build yourself an injector with a meat injector from Lowes. This type won’t allow the plunger to shoot out the end.

View attachment 830953

What size threaded connector do you use to attach the injector to the Gas Post QD? Looks like a standard Duotight. I haven't had much luck using large syringes with LureLock fittings. PET bottles with carbonation caps seem to always develop leaks around the threads of the bottle, but when the work they're fairly easy to use. Still searching for the perfect solution.

 

[Beermeister32]

The syringe needle is shortened, then slides down into the hole of ball lock quick disconnect fitting. The whole thing is packed with JB Weld epoxy. Not as elegant as direct threaded fittings, but solid as a rock.

 

[Brooothru]

The syringe needle is shortened, then slides down into the hole of ball lock quick disconnect fitting. The whole thing is packed with JB Weld epoxy. Not as elegant as direct threaded fittings, but solid as a rock.

Ahhh, that sounds like a workable solution. I've tried a direct connection to the LureLock fitting on a syringe held in place with a tiny worm clamp, but it always leaks under pressure. It never occurred to me to use epoxy (duh!). Might not be elegant, but if it works.....

 

[Beermeister32]

Yep. JB Weld really attached to the metal very strongly and after about 3-4 hours is still a bit bit workable in your fingers to round it a bit. You can Star San it, it is a great product.

 

[day_trippr]

tbh, I don't see the need to permanently lock syringe to QD. I trimmed the plastic Luer Lock collar leaving just the "nipple", which easily fits inside the bare MFL stem on a standard ball lock QD. When I inject a keg I snap the QD on the gas post and let the keg vent, then quickly stuff the syringe in the QD stem and shoot the contents in the keg, then pop the QD off the post. I have to believe it's easier to clean the syringe and QD if they're not bonded together...

Cheers!

 

[Beermeister32]

tbh, I don't see the need to permanently lock syringe to QD. I trimmed the plastic Luer Lock collar leaving just the "nipple", which easily fits inside the bare MFL stem on a standard ball lock QD. When I inject a keg I snap the QD on the gas post and let the keg vent, then quickly stuff the syringe in the QD stem and shoot the contents in the keg, then pop the QD off the post. I have to believe it's easier to clear the syringe and QD if they're not bonded together...

The syringe still unscrews from the needle for cleaning. Prost!

 

[Brooothru]

tbh, I don't see the need to permanently lock syringe to QD. I trimmed the plastic Luer Lock collar leaving just the "nipple", which easily fits inside the bare MFL stem on a standard ball lock QD. When I inject a keg I snap the QD on the gas post and let the keg vent, then quickly stuff the syringe in the QD stem and shoot the contents in the keg, then pop the QD off the post. I have to believe it's easier to clean the syringe and QD if they're not bonded together...


View attachment 831435




Cheers!

It looks like you’re using the same Slip Luer syringe that I use (300 ml?). So you use nippers to cut away the outer ring of the Luer and insert that into the Gas In post (depressurized, of course)?

I was slipping 4mm Duotight beer line over the entire Slip Luer nipple and trying to keep it attached with a worm clamp. Back pressure always resulted in leakage.

 

[mac_1103]

You guys do know that they make syringes without luer locks, right? No trimming required, and a longer tip to attach to whatever you want to attach it to.

 

[day_trippr]

It looks like you’re using the same Slip Luer syringe that I use (300 ml?). So you use nippers to cut away the outer ring of the Luer and insert that into the Gas In post (depressurized, of course)?

Exactly. I position the syringe inside the neck of the QD then snap the latter down on the keg gas post. As soon as the venting stops I push the plunger.

You guys do know that they make syringes without luer locks, right?

Lol - tbh my familiarity with Luer Lock syringes in my many hobbies made them the default. There are applications where it's nice to not have an attachment get ejected unexpectedly - like when filling an R/C model fuel tank with nitromethane So I have a bunch of large volume syringes in stock...

Cheers!

 

[mac_1103]

There are applications where it's nice to not have an attachment get ejected unexpectedly - like when filling an R/C model fuel tank with nitromethane

It's also nice not to have a 16 gauge needle pop off when injecting a large animal with something viscous. Definitely use the right tool for the job.

 

[sibelman]

I'm reviving this for help finding a ~300ml syringe with Luer locking tip. Searches have found large syringes, and Luer syringes, but not yet both. Any suggestions?

 

[day_trippr]

I'm not finding that combo either now. But looking at these lock-less 300ml syringes on AMZ the tapered tips look like they'd fit tight inside a QD stem...

https://www.amazon.com/Scientific-Dispensing-Measuring-Refilling-150ml-2pack/dp/B07NZLVMCP

Cheers!

 

[sibelman]

So adequate seal is attained by just jamming the (possible trimmed) tip into the flare fitting of a ball-lock QD, I take it?

 

[day_trippr]

Yup, that has been working well for me so far.

One thing I'll note, when I use warm water to dissolve the 1 teaspoon of Ascorbic Acid I inject each keg before filling with beer, the warmth can cause the keg to spit back, so I've taken to giving the PRV a quick pop when injecting. It doesn't happen with cooled injections though so it's definitely to do with the warm liquid running down the keg wall and warming the CO2 inside...

Cheers!

 

[Bobby_M]

I wouldn't use a 300ml syringe if there's going to be pressure in the keg. The wider the piston, the greater the force. Try to stick to a 1" diameter syringe or smaller. If you want to keep everything pressurized, use leur lock to 4mm EVA tubing as it threads right in. Then use a Duotight QD or a Duotight flare to QD. The whole thing stays sealed and you can push into a pressurized keg if you want to.

 

[sibelman]

Thanks, @Bobby_M & @day_trippr

I'm not presently planning to inject into a pressurized keg. I'm planning to add priming solution and ascorbic acid to a low-to-zero pressure keg-as-secondary which will then be a bottling "bucket." First up, a big Abbey ale, headed for swing tops.

 

[day_trippr]

When I've completed a fermentation-gas purge of a pair of kegs I put a few psi of CO2 in them to keep their lids tight. But I don't want to have the keg actually retaining pressure when I'm about to fill it with beer - I barely use 1 psi to CO2-push beer out of my carboys. Releasing that pressure is going to have to happen anyway, so doing it just prior to injecting them with the Ascorbic Acid solution makes the most sense to me.

btw - it's only 30ml of fluid being injected, so I use one of my 100ml syringes, not the big mama I use for injecting extracts...

Cheers!

 

[sibelman]

My thought is to just add the ascorbate to the cooled priming solution, pull it all into the syringe, and inject. But I get that a smaller syringe makes sense for a smaller injection volume.