BCS 460 Tell me all about it.

[Ohio-Ed]

You guys are so tricky! I am just too lazy to do that... I am a lazy slob.

Hey Lazy Slob ...

I don't believe for a minute that you are lazy or incapable. You have an interface in mind that works for you. My vision is just a bit different.

Now, how bout givin up your source for cheap SSR's & heat sinks?
I need to order something soon. I feel the need, the need to blow sumthing up!

Ed

 

[The Pol]

Hey Lazy Slob ...

I don't believe for a minute that you are lazy or incapable. You have an interface in mind that works for you. My vision is just a bit different.

Now, how bout givin up your source for cheap SSR's & heat sinks?
I need to order something soon. I feel the need, the need to blow sumthing up!

Ed

Ebay....

China....

40A SSR and Heatsink for $16 each... I ordered (8) total

Also bought (2) 25A SSRs for the pumps ($8) each

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Ebay....

China....

40A SSR and Heatsink for $16 each... I ordered (8) total

Also bought (2) 25A SSRs for the pumps ($8) each

Did they get them to you fairly quick? I've been afraid to order from the china suppliers in fear of long delays.

 

[The Pol]

Did they get them to you fairly quick? I've been afraid to order from the china suppliers in fear of long delays.

They are VERY open about the ship time...

15 working days. I have time.

Hell, it is taking me 10 working days to get SS plumbing from 120 miles away...

 

[sjlammer]

Pol,

based on my experience this weekend (to be documented) I would strongly encourage you to have some toggle switches on your rig. several times i realized that i had sucked my mash dry while sparging and had to quick flick the switch to turn the pump off. what took me half a second would have taken longer as you grab the mouse, navigate to the check box /win button, and turn the pump off, then wait to the next get post cycle to make the change....

think if you had to do that while hot wort is pouring all over the floor because a fitting slipped, or you sprung a leak, etc.

For the pump, i would choose a Dual pole single throw switch (DPST). This will allow you to use it as an HOA switch (Hand-off-Auto). to toggle on and off you switch from hand to off. to let the BCS control the pump, you place the switch in the auto position.

The same could be said for the heating element if you had an HLT... oh sh*t you just pumped it dry... now your elements are burning up.

just my two cents...

 

[The Pol]

Pol,

based on my experience this weekend (to be documented) I would strongly encourage you to have some toggle switches on your rig. several times i realized that i had sucked my mash dry while sparging and had to quick flick the switch to turn the pump off. what took me half a second would have taken longer as you grab the mouse, navigate to the check box /win button, and turn the pump off, then wait to the next get post cycle to make the change....

think if you had to do that while hot wort is pouring all over the floor because a fitting slipped, or you sprung a leak, etc.

For the pump, i would choose a Dual pole single throw switch (DPST). This will allow you to use it as an HOA switch (Hand-off-Auto). to toggle on and off you switch from hand to off. to let the BCS control the pump, you place the switch in the auto position.

The same could be said for the heating element if you had an HLT... oh sh*t you just pumped it dry... now your elements are burning up.

just my two cents...

Why do you have to quick flip a switch to turn a pump off if your mash runs dry?

I dont have an HLT

If I did have one, by the time I realize I pumped it dry, my element is toast anyway I suppose.

When I have it built, yall can tell me you told me so

 

[sjlammer]

My understanding was that march pumps couldn't run dry...

I won't say i told you so, I'm just in favor of flexibility and redundancy (to a point).

PS... i knew you weren't going to have an HLT!

 

[The Pol]

My understanding was that march pumps couldn't run dry...

I won't say i told you so, I'm just in favor of flexibility and redundancy (to a point).

PS... i knew you weren't going to have an HLT!

You been talking to Yoop?

You cant run them DRY, but that means DRY......

As long as there is even a film of water in there, they are lubricated. I can go out and run mine a week after a brew session and they are still wet enough that they run normally, even without flow.

Dry, means bone dry. They can run without flow... for hours probably, but they cannot run BONE dry.

The only area on my system where I would have an element run dry, would be the RIMS heater if I get a stuck mash. BUT, I am leaving the IN and OUT facing up so nothing can drain out... I am also placing the temp. probe close enough that the BCS should shut it down before I get to boiling dry.

This is all new to me, I am a HERMS guy!

 

[ThePig]

I ordered some lighted pushbutton switches as safeties. I'd like to have manual backups in case my access point takes a crap as my pump starts to squeal.

My setup has a natural gas fired HLT and Kettle, with the mash heat exchanger in the HLT, so I don't need to worry about elements running dry, but I do need to worry about those damn March pumps... I just burned one up after a year pushing through cheap 1/2" (really 3/8"-1/4") chinese nipples. I just moved over to 1/2" Tri's and hard copper to avoid burning another one up....

 

[Brewmoor]

Hey Lazy Slob ...

I don't believe for a minute that you are lazy or incapable. You have an interface in mind that works for you. My vision is just a bit different.

Now, how bout givin up your source for cheap SSR's & heat sinks?
I need to order something soon. I feel the need, the need to blow sumthing up!

Ed

I had great experience ordering my SSR's from china. I got 4 40amp units for $9.99 each including free shipping. (I already have suitable heat sinks) I had them at my door in about 2 weeks and that was over the holidays.

Go to ebay and sort by lowest price shipped.

 

[The Pol]

I had great experience ordering my SSR's from china. I got 4 40amp units for $9.99 each including free shipping. (I already have suitable heat sinks) I had them at my door in about 2 weeks and that was over the holidays.

Go to ebay and sort by lowest price shipped.

This is what I did...

40A SSR + Heatsink for $16 with FREE shipping

Cant really beat that price

I have time, so 2 weeks (which they are open about) to ship isnt a big deal.

I will need a small cooling fan for my E-bay though, any suggestions? I think I want the fan to blow OUT, then I will have a shielded opening on th opposite end so that I can get some flow across the heat sinks.

 

[Brewmoor]

This is what I did...

40A SSR + Heatsink for $16 with FREE shipping

Cant really beat that price

I have time, so 2 weeks (which they are open about) to ship isnt a big deal.

I will need a small cooling fan for my E-bay though, any suggestions? I think I want the fan to blow OUT, then I will have a shielded opening on th opposite end so that I can get some flow across the heat sinks.

What type of power are you going to have availble? What voltage does the BCS run on. 12v DC?

If so then I would go with the largest computer fan you can fit. The larger the fan usually the quieter it is. As well as the best flow. I like to use the 120mm fans in my computers and I am using one on my stir plate.

If all you have is 120v AC then I would look for one of those mini desk fans at an office supply store and modify it to mount in your box.

 

[The Pol]

What type of power are you going to have availble? What voltage does the BCS run on. 12v DC?

If so then I would go with the largest computer fan you can fit. The larger the fan usually the quieter it is. As well as the best flow. I like to use the 120mm fans in my computers and I am using one on my stir plate.

If all you have is 120v AC then I would look for one of those mini desk fans at an office supply store and modify it to mount in your box.

Well, I will have 240VAC going in there, but running 120VAC to the pumps and such is simple off the dist. block. The BCS uses a wall wort, so I will have an outlet in he Ebay to power it.

 

[Brewmoor]

You could get something like this and remove it from the base and mount just the fan. I have one on my desk that is metal. I got it office depot. Not sure how big your wiring box will be but something like that might fit.

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/hvac/fans/office/4-personal-two-speed-desktop-personal-fan-white?utm_source=nextag&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Office-nextag&infoParam.campaignId=WI

This is kinda cool too!

http://www.vornado.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ISC_Category=+ZIPPI#

 

[The Pol]

This looks viable... something like it.

Clean install, and comes with an AC power source.
http://www.buyextras.com/cafankivast1.html

 

[Brewmoor]

That would be the best solution. No modification needed. You might be able to make it cheaper. Find a 12v or less wall wort and connect it to 120mm computer fan. Set it up on one of the BCS outputs with a standard relay and you would be set.

 

[sjlammer]

You could go with a 120V "muffin" fan. They are more expensive than DC computer fans ($12), but it may be worth it to simplify the install

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-...VAC-120MM-COOLING-FAN-SLEEVE-BEARING/-/1.html

 

[wh4tig0t]

You could go with a 120V "muffin" fan. They are more expensive than DC computer fans ($12), but it may be worth it to simplify the install

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-...VAC-120MM-COOLING-FAN-SLEEVE-BEARING/-/1.html

You can pick those up or something similar at rat shack maybe cheaper.

 

[ThePig]

McMaster also has a nice selection of rugged muffin fans, fan guards, leads and thermostats. They have AC and DC. You can get all plastic, or metal frame with plastic blades, or metal frame w/ metal blades. They're more expensive than computer grade DC muffins fans but offer way more flexible config options.

Check out the Equipment Cooling Blowers on page 628 - they work better for water resistant control box installations. While they're not completely water tight, you can install then vertically at the botton of a control box and you do not have to install outflow air vents.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#muffin-fans/=5dixve

 

[jfkriege]

All the small fan choice you will ever need.

http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l1/g36/Fans.html?id=AiVpH8q5

 

[ThePig]

Sweet. Where else can you add a can of Bawls Guarana Cherry or Jolt wild grape energy drink for $2.49 to your order?

 

[ScubaSteve]

Their Cocaine prices aren't bad, either.......

 

[The Pol]

Talking to ECC over on the BCS board, I brought up the idea of a "BIG RED MUSHROOM" button function in the BCS control. A virtual panic switch, much like having the physical switch on your system in case of a failure of something.

He said that this has been brought up in the past as well, and thinks that it is still a good idea, so it may make it into the next firmware update.

Just FYI

 

[CodeRage]

Talking to ECC over on the BCS board, I brought up the idea of a "BIG RED MUSHROOM" button function in the BCS control. A virtual panic switch, much like having the physical switch on your system in case of a failure of something.

He said that this has been brought up in the past as well, and thinks that it is still a good idea, so it may make it into the next firmware update.

Just FYI

Not a bad idea but, and this is coming from a PLC guy, there is no substitute for a physical E-STOP.

 

[TimWeber]

Subscribed...

I also just bought the BCS-460 after looking at all of the options. I liked the flexibility of the design as I am going to slowly be adding automation to my brewery, and didnt want to make a new control panel for each feature. I almost went with the Unitronics vision350 and still may in the future, but I couldnt pass up on the cost of the BCS.

Currently I am using the BSC to run a 1500 Watt ULD in my RIMS, and using it to control my sparge water temp while sparging with a heat stick. I am not using both elements at the same time.

I started testing the PID last night, but ran into some problems. Tuning PIDs is a pain and takes a looong time. I did it a few times in my last job.

I am using those cheepo Chineese 25A SSRs and heat sinks.

I would like the digital E-Stop since it provides an additional place to shut down the system. Also, I do not have any switches wired up at all yet, since I am in the "bread board" stage. A digital stop would be great to have.

 

[TimWeber]

I've bought this fan twice. Once for my stir plate, and once for my fermentation chamber.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cooling-Fan-AC-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3efbe03d35

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Talking to ECC over on the BCS board, I brought up the idea of a "BIG RED MUSHROOM" button function in the BCS control. A virtual panic switch, much like having the physical switch on your system in case of a failure of something.

He said that this has been brought up in the past as well, and thinks that it is still a good idea, so it may make it into the next firmware update.

Just FYI

Pol,

I think this could be a handy feature but not really what I have in mind for an E-Stop.
The problem is that the BCS is a network appliance and depends on the connection to your PC to allow you to have any control. If you disconnect the cable, the BCS will continue to do its thing. So if you have an emergency, you are depending on your PC and the network to send a message to the BCS to stop. At minimum there is a lag. Worst case, the communication doesn't happen. Without an e-stop or even a switch on the panel, your only choice is to un-plug the rig.

Of course we all know how reliable Windows is, so maybe this is not a concern

Ed

 

[wh4tig0t]

Pol,

I think this could be a handy feature but not really what I have in mind for an E-Stop.
The problem is that the BCS is a network appliance and depends on the connection to your PC to allow you to have any control. If you disconnect the cable, the BCS will continue to do its thing. So if you have an emergency, you are depending on your PC and the network to send a message to the BCS to stop. At minimum there is a lag. Worst case, the communication doesn't happen. Without an e-stop or even a switch on the panel, your only choice is to un-plug the rig.

Of course we all know how reliable Windows is, so maybe this is not a concern

Ed

you don't have to use windows.

I think a physical big red button feature would be great specifically if it functioned independant of the computer, and I think that's what most people are getting at here.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

you don't have to use windows.

I think a physical big red button feature would be great specifically if it functioned independant of the computer, and I think that's what most people are getting at here.

The message I responded to was where The Pol said he was discussing with ECC adding a button to the BCS Interface.

Talking to ECC over on the BCS board, I brought up the idea of a "BIG RED MUSHROOM" button function in the BCS control. A virtual panic switch, much like having the physical switch on your system in case of a failure of something.

He said that this has been brought up in the past as well, and thinks that it is still a good idea, so it may make it into the next firmware update.

The interface IS Windows. The Pol has said the does not want physical buttons on his rig.

I am suggesting that you should consider a physical E-Stop button.

 

[wh4tig0t]

The message I responded to was where The Pol said he was discussing with ECC adding a button to the BCS Interface.


The interface IS Windows. The Pol has said the does not want physical buttons on his rig.

I am suggesting that you should consider a physical E-Stop button.

SWMBO says I don't listen, at least I'm consistent.

OK I can definitely see the need for both. If I end up using the BCS I will have 3 position auto-off-on switches to control all functions, but i would also like a big red stop/pause button that I could push at the sculpture and not have to go back to the computer with beer covered hands.

 

[JonW]

It would be easy to add a "Big Red Switch" to a BCS-460 panel. Look at the On-Off-Auto switch example below. You can wire the "Big Red Switch" to control the common DC Voltage + powering all your relays. Hitting the switch would interrupt power to all relays and stop everything.

Using On-Off-Auto switches with BCS-460 also gives you override capabilities without having to interrupt your running program.

 

[ThePig]

Great idea JonW, I'm adding that to my build. It's simple, easy to wire and practical.

 

[The Pol]

PODANGUS!

Your inbox is full, wanted to let you know I appreciate the cooling fan!

Pol

 

[podangus]

No problem Pol, I hope it works out for you.
podangus

 

[eccsynd]

The message I responded to was where The Pol said he was discussing with ECC adding a button to the BCS Interface.


The interface IS Windows. The Pol has said the does not want physical buttons on his rig.

I am suggesting that you should consider a physical E-Stop button.

Technically, the interface is HTTP, not Windows. You can use Linux, Mac, smartphone, iPod touch, or any other device that has a web browser. I'm splitting hairs here, I know.. But I don't want the BCS to be associated with Windows stability since its a standalone device. (heck, we don't even support IE).

That being said, I totally agree with you about the physical E-stop. Some people can get by with simply 'unplugging' their rig in case of emergency... But when it gets more complicated than that(220 for instance), you NEED a way to quickly kill the power, with preferably zero points of failure between you and the disconnect.

Manual overrides for outputs are nice to have as well, but not a requirement when you have the BCS interface to manually turn them on/off... But they sure are handy for quickly priming pumps, and cleaning cycles (wet hands).

 

[CodeRage]

That being said, I totally agree with you about the physical E-stop. Some people can get by with simply 'unplugging' their rig in case of emergency... But when it gets more complicated than that(220 for instance), you NEED a way to quickly kill the power, with preferably zero points of failure between you and the disconnect.

I'd like to dis spell the assumed notion that 120V is inherently safer than 240.
There isn't much difference between 240 and 120. It isn't very likely that you would get hooked up across both legs and get the full 240. The most probable case is that you would get attached between one of the legs and ground.

The only real differentiating factor between the two is that there is an additional point of exposure on a 240V system. Even if you are using 120V elements it should be equally respected cause it will put you in the ground just the same. Be safe guys

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Technically, the interface is HTTP, not Windows. You can use Linux, Mac, smartphone, iPod touch, or any other device that has a web browser. I'm splitting hairs here, I know.. But I don't want the BCS to be associated with Windows stability since its a standalone device. (heck, we don't even support IE).

That being said, I totally agree with you about the physical E-stop. Some people can get by with simply 'unplugging' their rig in case of emergency... But when it gets more complicated than that(220 for instance), you NEED a way to quickly kill the power, with preferably zero points of failure between you and the disconnect.

Manual overrides for outputs are nice to have as well, but not a requirement when you have the BCS interface to manually turn them on/off... But they sure are handy for quickly priming pumps, and cleaning cycles (wet hands).

I understand your point and did not mean to imply that the BCS requires Windows.

The original reference to Windows came from a message I posted which basically included a joke about relying on Windows reliability for an E-Stop.

 

[ThePig]

Stability problems are easy to fix with the BCS. Just throw your windoz machine in the garbage, buy a mac and poof! the stability problems dissappear :>) LOL...

 

[The Pol]

Anyone else have a problem ordering at ECC? I tried to buy my stuff today... this is what I get:

PayPal is constantly working to protect our members against fraud. We review every transaction before it is approved, and we may block a payment when we detect a potential risk.

Our reviews take into account every aspect of a transaction, including looking at both parties. These decisions help us maintain the integrity of our payments network in the same way as other payment processors: by declining transactions with an unacceptable level of risk.

While our fraud measures occasionally block a legitimate payment, to maintain overall security, we cannot overturn any decisions about an individual transaction.

If you decide to continue this transaction using a different funding source, please note that the associated risk levels have not been decreased.

I cant even give them my money... crap

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Anyone else have a problem ordering at ECC? I tried to buy my stuff today... this is what I get:

PayPal is constantly working to protect our members against fraud. We review every transaction before it is approved, and we may block a payment when we detect a potential risk.

Our reviews take into account every aspect of a transaction, including looking at both parties. These decisions help us maintain the integrity of our payments network in the same way as other payment processors: by declining transactions with an unacceptable level of risk.

While our fraud measures occasionally block a legitimate payment, to maintain overall security, we cannot overturn any decisions about an individual transaction.

If you decide to continue this transaction using a different funding source, please note that the associated risk levels have not been decreased.

I cant even give them my money... crap

I had no problem...

Sounds like YOU might be the risk

Seriously, no problem like that but, It was a bit odd when I ordered my stuff from ECC... there was no confirmation, order acknowledgment, order number, or anything... The next day, I ended up sending them an email just to make sure they got the order.

Good Luck
Ed