BCS 460 Tell me all about it.

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I can go to almost any hardware store around here and get a 50A range cord that is 6/4 for WAYYYYY less than $4.50 per foot. Yeah, 10' for $18
 
The Pol said:
I can go to almost any hardware store around here and get a 50A range cord that is 6/4 for WAYYYYY less than $4.50 per foot. Yeah, 10' for $18
Click to expand...

Gotcha... I went with SOOW cord. Thought maybe you had an online source.

Are you doing something similar for connecting your elements to your box?
 
The Pol said:
Where can I find a male 50A 4 prong receptacle for the rig? Never seen one.

Honestly I dont think I am stupid enough to crawl on the floor to unplug my rig BEFORE unplugging from the wall. But to appease the masses... sure, where do I get one?

The plan for the detachable cord isnt to remove it between brew sessions, but to remove it for when the rig is on display in the house.

I see your point, but didnt figure I had an option for a 50A male 4 prong receptacle on the stand itself.
Click to expand...

http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=8773

The female counterpart is at the bottom of the page in the related items box. Looks like the whole get up would be 125 bones.

Here is an ebay one. the ground pin is on the outside edge of the receptacle.
What you want to look for is a 50 amp flanged male inlet.
 
So Pol, how are you getting around a panel? I figure even with the BCS you're going to want a small switchboard for manual override of elements/pumps.....
 
The Pol said:
Where can I find a male 50A 4 prong receptacle for the rig? Never seen one.

Honestly I dont think I am stupid enough to crawl on the floor to unplug my rig BEFORE unplugging from the wall. But to appease the masses... sure, where do I get one?

The plan for the detachable cord isnt to remove it between brew sessions, but to remove it for when the rig is on display in the house.

I see your point, but didnt figure I had an option for a 50A male 4 prong receptacle on the stand itself.

SSRs were Ebay finds
Click to expand...

Take a look at this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RV-5..._Camper_Parts_Accessories?hash=item4140c79985

There is also a female counterpart available.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...kparms=algo=SI&its=I%2BC&itu=UCI&otn=10&ps=63
 
RonRock said:
Ohio-Ed, I'd like to see what you come up with for a power supply. I asked about this a couple weeks ago, got some suggestions as to a simple circuit. I plan to go from my 24v transformer to the 6v for the BCS.
Click to expand...

Ron, you can't just use a transformer. It has to be a DC power supply.
 
Ohio-Ed said:
Gotcha... I went with SOOW cord. Thought maybe you had an online source.

Are you doing something similar for connecting your elements to your box?
Click to expand...

Right now, I dont plan to have a "box" persay. I will have an electronics bay where all of the electrical components are attached to thier respective PIDs.

There will really be no box, or control panel, everything would be switched through the BCS and the SSRs. It would not be modular like my last rig, it would be "hard" wired. Basically there will simply be an E-Bay separate from the "wet" side of the rig that will house the electronics and switching mechanisms. No outlets means no plugs and receptacles to take up space, it also means less wiring. Doing all of the pump and element switching with the BCS also means less space, switches and wiring. The BCS will allow the E-Bay to be really clean.
 
ScubaSteve said:
So Pol, how are you getting around a panel? I figure even with the BCS you're going to want a small switchboard for manual override of elements/pumps.....
Click to expand...

Really, I am not planning any manual override, except for the possibility of a master switch. Everything else will be virtual control through te BCS.

Even if I have manual switches, I will still have to go into the BCS and select them items on in order to operate them. The only benefit would be that I would be able to force something off without using BCS, but again I dont see the difference between a switch in the rig and a virtual one on the BCS.

I sort of like the idea of a rig with virtually no visible plumbing and no visible panel.

I know people like the busy looking and industrial systems, but I am moving toward something else... hope it works for me. If not, you will all learn a valuable lesson! DO NOT DO AS THE POL DOES
 
I am not finished building my rig yet, but I have a BCS for it. I have not run it with any hardware, but from running the interface on my computer, I can't wait to put all these awesome features to use. I'm even considering getting a second one to run 2 or 3 10 gallon water cooled/heated fermentation wells.
Alot of good info here is coming up so I will be subscribed :)
BTW I have a buddy here in our club who built a lovely electric keggle rig. He ran 10/3 to each element, and used a double male end (twistlocs) to connect his relays to his keggle elements (which were mounted with an external gang box). The first time he showed me the rig, he spent 30 minutes explaining to me why that was a BAD idea. Now I just wonder why he hasn't changed it yet...
 
Apparently NEED NON ZERO CROSS SSRs for the pumps.

Where can I get them? I only see ZERO CROSS

Also, as an alternative... where would I begin to find a small mechanical relay instead of an SSR. NOW this is my sticking point on the control side. Elements are easy, the pumps not so much.
 
Is it the pump that needs non zero cross or the bcs itself? I am thinking you might be able to drive a 5 amp relay or something with the SSR that you have. I think its hard to find a non-ssr relay with that low of coil voltage.
 
Okay, NEW question.

For all you BCS users, how are you controlling your pump ON/OFF with it?

SSR?
Mechanical Relay?
Combination?

You have until 8pm to give me a solution to this apparent problem!
 
Good move. I copied this. May be helpful to those looking for ssr's. I'm sure these are the ones suggested on the BCS site.



This is the first I've heard of "Zero Crossing/Non Zero Crossing SSR's"

I'm planning on Crydom D2425 to switch my March 809's. I searched for spec's after reading this, but could find nothing about Zero Crossing. Is this a spec by some other name? TBH there is a lot of info I don't understand in the spec sheets.

I know we are getting off topic could be moved or start another.



Spec Sheet

http://datasheet.octopart.com/D2425-Crydom-datasheet-2269.pdf
 
It sayes zero cross all over the spec sheet, I presume they are zero cross.
 
I emailed the makers of the BCS... I will let you know what they tell me about pump control options.
 
What? I don't understand why zero crossing would affect the operation of an inductive load. Some one mentioned something about opto isolators. I haven't seen an SSR without an opto on the control line. The ones from auber have optos, unless you got them some where else show me the spec sheet.

Zero crossing means the SSR wont close the load side until the AC voltage is at 0V in it's cycle, or has crossed 0V in one direction or the other. Non Zero means it will turn on anywhere in the AC waveform.

I have an extra SSR laying around and would like to test this in the next couple of days.

Here is a link to the spec sheet for the SSRs I use, http://www.automationdirect.com/static/specs/ssrelays.pdf, the operation section does a good job explaining how SSRs in general work.
 
The Pol said:
It sayes zero cross all over the spec sheet, I presume they are zero cross.
Click to expand...

Did you read the same spec sheet? I see 2 places where Zero Cross is mentioned.


"Output consists of an SCR AC switch and is
available in zero-cross, random turnon"

"4D 400 Hz Operation
10-50 Amp Models Only
Zero Cross Switching Only
Example: 4D2450
E 24V AC/DC Input
Example: A2450E"


The Crydom SSR that I have is a D2425. Neither of these references say that the D2425 is Zero Crossing.
 
Okay, I found a decent article about SSRs. Just from a cursory glance it looks like they are very sensitive to Overloads and can pop. Inductive loads have crazy start currents so be sure to get a one that is rated well over the current needed for the load. 2x Seems to be the rule of thumb.

The other concern is the inductive kick when the field collapses. This will cause the voltage to spike on the load side which could keep an SSR from turning off. Putting an RC Snubber across the load (120 to neutral) will stop it.

Here is a spec sheet for one from redlion.
http://www.redlion-controls.com/Products/Groups/NoiseSuppression/SNUB/Docs/12027.pdf
 
A lot of SSRs I have seen have internal snubbers...

BUT, still not able to find one that will work for me that states it is NON ZERO CROSS
 
Today I hope I will be testing out my BCS to run my HLT and pump. I did a wet run last night with the heating element,(120vac 2000watt) on manual mode and over shot the target temp by 1º. I have crydom 25A SSR's, and am planing on using one to run my march pump to transfer the single infusion, and the sparge. Over the next few months I plan on utilizing more of the BCS.


I let you know if I blow up.

So far my impression of it is the interface is fairly easy to figure out, it is possible to hook it up wireless, and there is an iPhone app to run it as well.
 
Bsquared said:
Today I hope I will be testing out my BCS to run my HLT and pump. I did a wet run last night with the heating element,(120vac 2000watt) on manual mode and over shot the target temp by 1º. I have crydom 25A SSR's, and am planing on using one to run my march pump to transfer the single infusion, and the sparge. Over the next few months I plan on utilizing more of the BCS.


I let you know if I blow up.

So far my impression of it is the interface is fairly easy to figure out, it is possible to hook it up wireless, and there is an iPhone app to run it as well.
Click to expand...

YES let me know if you have any problems with a standard SSR, what is your SSR model #? MOST are zero cross out there, so I would assume that is what you have. If it works, that is great... I have (2) 25A that I can use.
 
The Pol said:
Okay, NEW question.

For all you BCS users, how are you controlling your pump ON/OFF with it?

SSR?
Mechanical Relay?
Combination?

You have until 8pm to give me a solution to this apparent problem!
Click to expand...

Crydom 2425 SSR with a On/Off/On toggle switch on a panel to allow me to run the pumps without the BCS being involved.
 
They are Crydom D24D25, I think I payed $10 each on ebay for them. I only picked them because that seemed to be what most people on the ECC board where using, and they where with in my amperage range. My element maxes out the system at ~18amps.

Hopefully I will get out to the garage and brew in the next few hr's.
 
Bsquared said:
They are Crydom D24D25, I think I payed $10 each on ebay for them. I only picked them because that seemed to be what most people on the ECC board where using, and they where with in my amperage range. My element maxes out the system at ~18amps.

Hopefully I will get out to the garage and brew in the next few hr's.
Click to expand...

You are my hero...
 
Any Crydom relay that is a D24XX series, where XX is your rated load, should have a version that has a '-10'. If it is -10, then it is a random turn on SSR and not zero crossing. So, if you look for a D2410-10, you will get a 10A non-zero-crossing SSR that will fit your needs. Digikey has them in stock.
 
I just put a $45 ZERO CROSSING SSR relay on the line for you guys.
As I thought, it drives a march pump just fine. Some one fed you a line so quit your worrying.
 
CodeRage said:
I just put a $45 ZERO CROSSING SSR relay on the line for you guys.
As I thought, it drives a march pump just fine. Some one fed you a line so quit your worrying.
Click to expand...

You are my hero... I owe you. Next time I am in Fla... I owe you a drink.
 
CodeRage said:
Here are those boards I was talking about, I had 2 of them.
If there is enough interest/demand I could make a board specifically to work with the BCS. The one on the right is attached to the logic and DI board if your wondering.
Click to expand...
Do you have more details on those boards ? I'm starting to layout a couple for my BCS build and would like to see what you did there.
 
CodeRage said:
I just put a $45 ZERO CROSSING SSR relay on the line for you guys.
As I thought, it drives a march pump just fine. Some one fed you a line so quit your worrying.
Click to expand...

I just read through a bunch of messages relatd to the zero vs non-zero crossing ssr's... In a nutshell, I think SawDustGuy suggested the zero-crossing woulf run a pump, the problem is related to what happens on the control side when you run an inductive load? Does that make sense? With that in mind, do you think we are ok to use zero crossing ssr's with a BCS to control pumps?

(Just trying to get this down to a level I can understand)

Thanks
Ed
 
Ohio-Ed said:
I just read through a bunch of messages relatd to the zero vs non-zero crossing ssr's... In a nutshell, I think SawDustGuy suggested the zero-crossing woulf run a pump, the problem is related to what happens on the control side when you run an inductive load? Does that make sense? With that in mind, do you think we are ok to use zero crossing ssr's with a BCS to control pumps?

(Just trying to get this down to a level I can understand)

Thanks
Ed
Click to expand...

There is a dude in this thread brewing with elements and pumps and the BCS on zero crossing SSRs today, so we will see if he explodes into flames.
 
CodeRage said:
What? I don't understand why zero crossing would affect the operation of an inductive load. Some one mentioned something about opto isolators. I haven't seen an SSR without an opto on the control line. The ones from auber have optos, unless you got them some where else show me the spec sheet.
Click to expand...

I can't find anything for the popular Crydom D2425 - either the series cs or series 1. Both have a model code "P" that is for over-voltage, but nothing about actually being opto'd.

I liked the PDF you posted - where are you getting those ?
 
Jumping into something I really don't know a lot about here... but what about a Reed Relay? SWMBO dragged me out this morning and while she was shopping for shoes, I walked into a Radio Shack. I found a 5vdc coil Reed Relay, but it's only rated at .5a 120vac. It was $2.99. Would a 2amp version of this work directly with the BCS?

Ed
 
Ohio-Ed said:
Jumping into something I really don't know a lot about here... but what about a Reed Relay? SWMBO dragged me out this morning and while she was shopping for shoes, I walked into a Radio Shack. I found a 5vdc coil Reed Relay, but it's only rated at .5a 120vac. It was $2.99. Would a 2amp version of this work directly with the BCS?

Ed
Click to expand...

That may be tight... the March is like 1.2A, and I dont think that includes the startup draw.
 
This is from ECCSYND on the BN forum...

"We've had success with the Crydom SSRs. D2425 and D2440 have both been used in systems. The BCS-460 has 5VDC outputs, so the 3-32V DC inputs of the Crydom line of D24xx work very well. Also tested Crouzet Gordos G240D25.

Typically, the higher the rated current of the SSR, the more expensive it is. So if you want to save some money for pumps or AC solenoids, you could get by with a 10 amp SSR, like the Crydom D2410."

Doesnt speak of zero crossing, random... nothing...
 
The D2410 is a zero crossing relay. The D2410-10 is the random turn on version.

I just chatted with my father in law, who is an EE. He said to just go with the zero crossing at a 10A load for the March pumps since you have them already, it shouldn't make a bit of difference.
 

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