All Rounder - using Spunding Valve in lieu of Blow Off tube

[terrypratt1]

I'm about to use my All Rounder for the first time and have a question about using the Spunding Valve fully open as my blow off. Brewing an NEIPA and I've seen that pressure fermentation is not recommended for NEIPA. If I "test" my spunding valve by blowing into the ends I confirm that it is one-way (i.e. I can't blow thru the pressure relief end). It does appear that even wide open there is a certain pressure required although I'm not sure how much (1 PSI?).

For a NEIPA would I be better off using a blow off and then having to replace the cap later on (Oxygen exposure) - or will the 1) Work, and 2) no worries about the impact of the pressure?

As an aside I did look at the replacement cap with a tri-clamp Hop Bong but can't see spending $250 for the setup. I am planning to place my hops in a funnel covered by a plastic bag - and the remove the gas post, drop in the hops, and replace the post. Not perfection - but honestly I can't see a meaningful infusion of oxygen in that process. I have had good results with NEIPA using a carboy and siphon to keg - so I expect this approach with a closed transfer will be much less exposure.

Any thoughts on either point?

Terry

PS - my first few NEIPA were bottled and 100% impacted by oxygen (i.e. turned brown very quickly with off flavor). My latest NEIPA from the Carboy transfer has maintained the expected color (see picture) and hope that with the closed transfer I maintain the hops aroma a bit longer as well.

 

[terrypratt1]

I'm about to use my All Rounder for the first time and have a question about using the Spunding Valve fully open as my blow off. Brewing an NEIPA and I've seen that pressure fermentation is not recommended for NEIPA. If I "test" my spunding valve by blowing into the ends I confirm that it is one-way (i.e. I can't blow thru the pressure relief end). It does appear that even wide open there is a certain pressure required although I'm not sure how much (1 PSI?).

For a NEIPA would I be better off using a blow off and then having to replace the cap later on (Oxygen exposure) - or will the 1) Work, and 2) no worries about the impact of the pressure?

As an aside I did look at the replacement cap with a tri-clamp Hop Bong but can't see spending $250 for the setup. I am planning to place my hops in a funnel covered by a plastic bag - and the remove the gas post, drop in the hops, and replace the post. Not perfection - but honestly I can't see a meaningful infusion of oxygen in that process. I have had good results with NEIPA using a carboy and siphon to keg - so I expect this approach with a closed transfer will be much less exposure.

Any thoughts on either point?

Terry

PS - my first few NEIPA were bottled and 100% impacted by oxygen (i.e. turned brown very quickly with off flavor). My latest NEIPA from the Carboy transfer has maintained the expected color (see picture) and hope that with the closed transfer I maintain the hops aroma a bit longer as well.

PS - I've looked again and found I only need the upgrade kit for the Hop Bong @ $149.99 - so I went ahead and made that investment - hope it works as well as all the reviews.

 

[VikeMan]

I have fermented some NEIPAs with spunding valves set to about 2 psi (in place of an airlock) the whole time. No issues here.

 

[DuncB]

Don't worry about the blowoff aspect, just unscrew the PRV and it will leave a nice hole for the gas to come out over the first day. Minimal pressure as @VikeMan mentions would be okay, you don't want to be in the situation with a lot of krausen rising up and then going through your spunding valve. But a little pressure often holds it back.
I put my hops in a hop bag with a food safe magnet ( sous vide) on the inside and held with another magnet on the outside. This means I can lower the hops in and waft them around when needed. Fermenter never open from yeast pitching until I clean the fermenter.

Commercial breweries with big tanks probably have much more pressure at the bottom of the fermenter than 2 psi.

Beware if you do have pressure and then open fermenter to lob the hops in that you'll want to get the lid back on quickly and inject CO2 to repressure as a lot of foam can be produced and your hops could come out or be on the sides of the all rounder rather than in the beer.

 

[Jim R]

I always brew my NEIPA's under pressure at 10-12 psi in my All Rounder. I initially use the released CO2 to push sanitizer out of my kegs to fill my kegs with CO2. I then dry hop with hop bags suspended with Sous Vide magnets on the inside of the fermenter and then carefully drop and later raise the hops out of the beer as per the recipe. I suspend more than 1 hop bag when it calls for additional dry hop intervals. I then do pressure transfers from the fermenter into my kegs so my beer never is exposed to oxygen. I have had NEIPA's last for a few months in my kegs with absolutely no sign of oxidation.

This all works great and is even the primary reason that I even bought the All Rounder. I see no downside to pressure fermenting NEIPA's.

 

[DuncB]

@Jim R
Sounds very similar to my protocol except I only turn the pressure on after the most active phase over to " allow more yeast expression" . Agreed my hazies last months with this level of care.

 

[Wrendelar]

I echo Jom R.

For dry hopping put your hops in a hop sock and use sous vide magnets.

Lock it to the top of the all rounder out of the wort and when it’s time pull the magnet on the outside and let the hops drop.

No worry about oxidizing the wort at all

 

[terrypratt1]

I echo Jom R.

For dry hopping put your hops in a hop sock and use sous vide magnets.

Lock it to the top of the all rounder out of the wort and when it’s time pull the magnet on the outside and let the hops drop.

No worry about oxidizing the wort at all

Thanks all for the input on both aspects. I did try the magnet approach but found it difficult to get the bag to hang high enough with a good deal of hops and a bag that allows expansion. Agree this is a common approach and many have used it with success (I also wanted to avoid the hops exposed to the moisture in the fermenter for the time before I released the additions. Like most things brewing - many viable approaches to a problem. My primary concern this round was the spunding valve and I received ample advise - so again thanks.

Terry

 

[Beerstein]

PS - I've looked again and found I only need the upgrade kit for the Hop Bong @ $149.99 - so I went ahead and made that investment - hope it works as well as all the reviews.

I'm playing with one right now. It's light years ahead of bags and sous vid magnets. Probably going to buy a second this summer.

Also, I've brewed dozens of NEIPA's under pressure. Works just fine. In fact, I brew everything in the summer under pressure (until I go back to using Kveik yeasts.

 

[Jim R]

I suspect that the "Hop Bong" is a nice device but I have been reluctant to spend $150+ for the devise for the $80 All Rounder. I have had my All Rounder for a couple years now and had issues maintaining good seals on it. I have to be very careful tightening all the components to the exact correct tensions to maintain good seals. I have had to purchase several new gaskets and rubber washers already. I have to very carefully pressure test it every time I brew on it now to prevent leaks.

In the end, the Hop bong is a fairly expensive addition to a cheap plastic fermenter with probably a limited life span although I have enjoyed learning how to do pressure fermentations and oxygen free brewing with it.

 

[DuncB]

@Jim R
Interesting your troubles, I'm blessed with a mix of gen 1 and 2 fermentasaurus, well beyond their test date and all functions are good with no replacements yet.
G3 fermenter king is hopeless under pressure you can't lift the plunger once you've dumped the yeast or trub. They recommend you Degas it so you can lift the plunge valve, ridiculous.
I only use it for fermenting wine now which its fine for.

 

[terrypratt1]

I suspect that the "Hop Bong" is a nice device but I have been reluctant to spend $150+ for the devise for the $80 All Rounder. I have had my All Rounder for a couple years now and had issues maintaining good seals on it. I have to be very careful tightening all the components to the exact correct tensions to maintain good seals. I have had to purchase several new gaskets and rubber washers already. I have to very carefully pressure test it every time I brew on it now to prevent leaks.

In the end, the Hop bong is a fairly expensive addition to a cheap plastic fermenter with probably a limited life span although I have enjoyed learning how to do pressure fermentations and oxygen free brewing with it.

Thanks - and hope I don't experience the same continues issues with my All Rounder (100% I found that the main cap needs to be tightened quite well as well as posts). I do (did - only 1 batch so far) pressure check before things get going to be sure.

I plan on starting with no or little pressure for the first 48-72 hours (using Lallemand New England for first batch and Verdant for second - both have worked well for my NEIAP's). I tried the magnets on my first batch - found it "awkward" to get loose hop bag to hang well and worried how to manage multiple hop additions (many have had success and no doubt a workable approach).

Anyway I bit the bullet and have a new brewing toy arriving today (and yes - more expensive than the fermenter but it does seem built to last and would adapt to any T.C fermenter fitting. And following Rule number 1 (even more than santaize) - Have Fun and brew what you enjoy; am looking forward to see how this helps on a NEIPA I alread quite enjoy.

Terry