100% Brett Question

[McUbermensch]

If I want a Pale Ale with US-05 yeast and and Pale Ale with 100% Brett (harvested from Wicked Weed bottle dregs) to finish at the same time for a side by side taste test how much time to I need to give the 100% Brett brew to finish? Both will brews will be bottled. Any help is much appreciated.

 

[opiate82]

My experience has been that a 100% Brett fermentation isn't that much different than that of a typical ale yeast*. However you'll want some bulk aging on the Brett beer if you want those Brett characteristics to really come through. Generally I give my 100% Brett beers 1 month in the primary and then another 2-5 months of bulk aging in a secondary.

*I'm sure different strains produce different results

 

[Hello]

Did you make a starter with those Brett dregs?

 

[gregkeller]

need a big starter with the brett. probably closer to lager pitching rates than ale rates. If you do, the beer should be done in about 3 weeks, so pretty much the same as the US-o5 yeast. I don't think brett needs any aging time when used as the only yeast. those funky flavors come when brett chews on the byproducts of a standard yeast. without a traditional primary yeast the brett has no byproducts to slowly chew on and therefore is done much earlier. You need a big pitch though. The amount of cells in bottle dregs are pretty small, would need to step it up a few times, and pitch a 3-5 L starter into the 5 gallon batch.

 

[Calder]

I agree with 'gregkeller', in that Brett as a primary yeast will not develop much, if any traditional brett flavors. I've got some a few years old now, with none of those flavors.

I think I'd start the Brett off a couple of weeks before the S-05 batch. I've had them go slow to reach FG. Keep it warmer than the S-05 batch.

And ..... you do need a big pitch, and I'd recommend aerating a second time after 12 hours.

 

[opiate82]

need a big starter with the brett. probably closer to lager pitching rates than ale rates. If you do, the beer should be done in about 3 weeks, so pretty much the same as the US-o5 yeast. I don't think brett needs any aging time when used as the only yeast. those funky flavors come when brett chews on the byproducts of a standard yeast. without a traditional primary yeast the brett has no byproducts to slowly chew on and therefore is done much earlier. You need a big pitch though. The amount of cells in bottle dregs are pretty small, would need to step it up a few times, and pitch a 3-5 L starter into the 5 gallon batch.

I disagree with the pitching rates. I have found that a big pitch actually causes Brett to ferment pretty cleanly. If you want to get those funky Brett flavors a lower pitch will stress them out and get them to start throwing those wonderful flavors/esters. A nice warm fermenter (70F-ish) also helps to get them to produce those Brett characteristics.

I use an ale pitching rate but on (I think it was) Jamil's show they recommended going as low as a single vial if you want a ton of Brett character. If you think about the breweries that are known for their spontaneously-fermented beers there is no way they are getting a lagers-pitch-rate worth of Brett falling into their beers.

Unless you want a clean ferment (in which case, why not just use ale yeast?) don't worry about underpitching.

 

[gregkeller]

I wouldn't consider brett to give a "clean" ferment like 001. It has some character to it. I just think its very different from brett added post primary. Pitching a really low cell count increases the odds of some foreign (read unwanted) bug getting into the wort and spoiling it before the brett can drop the acidity and raise the alcohol to levels that would otherwise prevent spoilage.

I think strains like brett trois has the potential to be an awesome IPA yeast. It chews through sugars leaving a nice dry beer. It lends a fruity ester that compliments newer, fruit forward hop varieties. Something i've been thinking about, and maybe needs some side by side batches to verify, but I think brett scavenges oxygen, and therefore helps hoppy beers stay a little fresher, a little longer.

I agree with you on the famous spontaneously fermented beers such as cantillon not picking up massive pitches from the air in the coolships, but I think i read somewhere that they really don't get their fermentation bugs from the air as much as people think, it's more yeast and critters that are in the barrels and stuff that they transfer into after cooling that do the majority of the heavy lifting.

 

[McUbermensch]

Did you make a starter with those Brett dregs?

I did make a starter and stepped it up three times.


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[McUbermensch]

Thanks all for the responses.

I did make a starter and stepped it up three times. I only pitched the Brett into 2 gallons given the pitch rate for Brett.

The Brett has taken off and there continues to be activity in the airlock (very sporadic though) after a week and a half. I plan on brewing the US-05 this weekend.

Both are being pitched into a Maris Otter / Mosaic SMaSH. This is purely experimental and spur of the moment so I didn't give any thought to how the Brett would play with the malt and hops. I'm hoping for a clean yet funky (not necessarily sour) pale ale with the Brett.


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[fermentology]

You probably wont get any sour depending on how much you aerated your Brett beer. You also probably wont get much funk, I've never really experienced much funk from a Brett primary fermentation. I think a lot of people think they perceive funk only because they know they're drinking a Brett fermented beer and expect it. But with Brett it can be very strain dependent and mash precursors can also drastically affect the outcome.

 

[McUbermensch]

The starter was aerated and smelled very sour. I have the fermenter a good shake about 12-16 hours after I noticed activity on the airlock. I also have removed the airlock to take a whiff and it smelled pretty funky.

The dregs came from Wicked weed Serenity and I wouldn't call that beer sour so I wasn't coming into this expecting sour.

Like I said I'm doing this purely for experimentation purposes and will report my findings.


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[foltster]

The starter was aerated and smelled very sour. I have the fermenter a good shake about 12-16 hours after I noticed activity on the airlock. I also have removed the airlock to take a whiff and it smelled pretty funky.

The dregs came from Wicked weed Serenity and I wouldn't call that beer sour so I wasn't coming into this expecting sour.

Like I said I'm doing this purely for experimentation purposes and will report my findings.


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How did this work out?

I am thinking of using wicked weed dregs in general and am looking for feedback from others that have done it.

 

[McUbermensch]

How did this work out?



I am thinking of using wicked weed dregs in general and am looking for feedback from others that have done it.

Sorry for getting to this so late...

The 100% Brett beer from Serenity dregs turned out great! It's a great summer beer.




Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[McUbermensch]

How did this work out?



I am thinking of using wicked weed dregs in general and am looking for feedback from others that have done it.

Sorry for getting to this so late...

The 100% Brett beer from Serenity dregs turned out great! It's a great summer beer.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew