The Pol
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Looks nice, it is anyones guess as to if it will work!
RIMS for Dummies
- Thread starter Sawdustguy
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Looks nice, it is anyones guess as to if it will work!
kryolla
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the PID send a signal to the SSR which in turn will close the circuit and you have power to your elelement. Do you have the right PID for SSR or universal and not relay? If it is universal is it configured for SSR
Yes, I have the SSR model. My error was not hooking it up right from the SSR forward. I will have to wait until Sunday to find out but that is what I am hoping that is what I did wrong. But was is the 23.6V thing all about? I get 120V into the PID and 23.6V on the SSR out of the PID. This may again be because the circuit is not complete.... I hope.
kryolla
Well-Known Member
That is correct the PID is powered off of 120v but the control signal sent out of the PID to SSR is lower than 120v probably 23.6v and the output of the SSR should be 120v when the circuit is closed
Ok, that's what I like to hear
I should be in good shape then. Now I need to organize this thing into a box. Anyone know where to get a good deal on a junction or electrical box? It was like $23 for a 8x8x4 at lowes OH yeah and I need a stand to mount this on, minor detail
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The + and - on the SSR represent the "control" voltage from the PID which is DC.
The 115 VAC Nue, is the Neutral AC supply and connects to the Element AND the PID.
The 115 VAC Hot, is the HOT AC supply and connects to the SSR AND PID.
The other connection between the element and the SSR provides the 120 VAC Hot to the element only when the PID sends a DC Control signal to the SSR.
Thanks, I got it now I guess i just didn't know what the purpose of the SSR was, I was thinking it worked a different way, just sending the power directly through and the wiring in the diagram was because a pump was also in. Now I know.
Almost I have one more dumb question. Just to comfirm, the Output 7 and 8 on the PID go to the Input of the SSR correct? Just a tad confusing because you have hot power coming into the output from the other side if that is the case.
kryolla
Well-Known Member
the SSR acts like a switch inline with the hot side of 120vac. With one side live pointing to the receptacle and the other side dead pointing to the element. Now flip the switch to on (PID function) and the path is closed.
if you have Right SYL-4352 then yes 7 is + and 8 is -
kryolla
Well-Known Member
Is this what you ordered and this is from Auberins
The output configuration can not be changed by user. It has to be set at factory. Please select the correct output configuration at the bottom of this page.
Should you have gotten the SSR control output
Yeah, I screwed up when ordering, the guy emailed me right after ordering to check if I meant to order it with the SSR output. I agreed with him
Thanks for checking though!
Thanks for everyones help. My functional test was a success, now I have to make it pretty. I am going to brew with it tonight anyways. I don't have insulation for my keggle yet either so I am going to use a sleeping bag, so this should be a pretty ghetto test run. I hope it turns out.
lamarguy
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God speed!
Yes, hopefully it won't be one of those brew 'til 2AM nights
I realize I got this far without a heat sink. I never saw it mentioned in the setup so is it suggested in this setup?
lamarguy
Well-Known Member
If you're running 5+ amps through the SSR, a heatsink is required.
OP
OP
Sawdustguy
Well-Known Member
If you reread the parts list in post #1 is says, "SSR with Heatsink".
doh.... well, I am stopping by the computer shop on the way home. He says he has a 75x95 that I can have for $8, that should do the trick.
Well it worked, sort of. I think I have some figuring out on the temps to do. I set the PID to 154, trying to maintain the same temp in the mash.
I let it go for a while and all the sudden I look at the temp gauge on the mash and it says 165 :cross:, this was after about 15-20 minutes of mashing, so I hope most of the conversion already happened or I am going to have one sweet beer. Anyways, anyone know how to adjust for this type of thing? I mean I could basically set my PID to 8 degrees lower that the number I actually want, when I settled things down, that seemed to keep the temp on the mash steady.
I let it go for a while and all the sudden I look at the temp gauge on the mash and it says 165 :cross:, this was after about 15-20 minutes of mashing, so I hope most of the conversion already happened or I am going to have one sweet beer. Anyways, anyone know how to adjust for this type of thing? I mean I could basically set my PID to 8 degrees lower that the number I actually want, when I settled things down, that seemed to keep the temp on the mash steady.
The Pol
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I dont know... but that seems weird to me. That the mash somehow was 11F hotter than your set temp? Where is your RIMS temp probe? If the PID is set to 154, the temp should not go over 154 by more than a degree or so.
15-20 mins is probably too early for conversion to be complete, but at that temp... it would happen faster than normal, dunno!
the RIM chamber was mounted vertically with the heater coming up through the bottom and the temp sensor in the top.
I think the best thing I can do is to make the distribution back into the mash as even as possible. This time I just used a piece of tin foil with a bunch of punches from a knife laid on the top of the mash and one of the blue/orange flex lines like you had to pour.
Even on my mash out. I set it to the high 150s. I guess I have more playing to do and have to watch the gauges a lot more.
lamarguy
Well-Known Member
You'll need to check/do two things to maintain an accurate temperature:
- Manually adjust temp probe offset (calibrate against accurate thermometer).
- Run the auto-tune program (auto-adjusts the P, I, D parameters).
Before running the auto-tune program, do step #1. Then, bring the test mash water to 150F, adjust the flow to a realistic level, and run the auto-tune program (instructions are in the manual). After tuning, it should maintain a steady-state temperature and not overshoot during temp ramp-up*.
*Note that it still may require a bit of manual tuning, as least mine did. The D value was too low and the system would oscillate a bit.
The Pol
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Right... so your RIMS outlet temp should never really exceed 154F. The distribution into the mash is of no concern at this point, the point is your PID is allowing your temp. to overshoot and it is not correcting it when it sees that it is overshooting
Thanks, I'll give it a try before the next brew. As a side note, I was so distracted with all that stuff that I took a pre-boil gravity check and it was waaaaay low and I thought that I had really screwed up, I ran to get some DME thinking I needed to boost it up, I started sprinkling some in as I got close to a boil, got about 1/4lb in and then thought "I need to stir it really good and then take a gravity check" after that I was way over my mark and changed my 90 minute boil to a 60 and still finished 6 points above target :cross: Plugged the extra DME into beersmith and it still puts me at 89% efficiency
the temp probe on the mash is a blichman type, it is about the middle of the mash (mashing with 3.5G h2o/10lbs grain) and then I also check with the long probe I used to use, I know it is only accurate within 4-5 degrees but even it read over 160 before I started throttling things back.
I do need to calibrate the blichman thing, but I know it is not off that much.
Also, when the PID is running the PV was registering like 144 when I first started the mash and that should have clued me in because the blichman said 152 but I cranked up the PID to 154 and then came the heat.
I am made a huge RWS and oxygenated the hell out of it and will do so with the main batch to give as much yeast as possible in hopes to get all the gravity I can out of this.
samc
Well-Known Member
Does anyone using this set up have hard numbers on how long it takes to raise the mash heat (10 gallon batch) from 150 to 170 as an example. On my system it struggled with getting that hot. Am I asking too much of it or do I have an issue? Eventually I pumped in a bit of hotter sparge water to help out.
I am speaking from limited experience here as I just built my system and have been testing this past weekend.
First, for reference, I have a 5500 low density element running 220V through 2" stainless Steel. I am using an Auber PID with fuzzy logic (the $44.50 one I believe).
I have yet to been able to set up the PID to step mash or to "ramp" as people call it by using the PID function of the controller, what I can do though is run the RIMS system in manual mode (% of time vs. cycle rate PID function= t), and the temperature climbs quite fast, I am sure you will not have any trouble going from 150 to 170 in a ten gallon batch. Where the trouble lies is in programming it to say, not heat any water/wort hotter than 170. It will be about 10 degrees hotter than the existing temp in the mash tun depending on how fast you circulate and what % setting you set in manual mode. At first this alarmed me because I thought that I would not be able to safely heat up to set temps without overshoot in the tube, but in reality this doesn't matter because dec. mashes work by taking some amount of wort out, heating it to boiling then returning to the mash tun and stirring to bring the entire mash to a new temperature.
Once you reach your new temp. simply run the PID controller in Autotune to maintain temperature, then sparge when you are ready.
The really cool part is when you use an element as powerful as I am and others have, you can heat your sparge water on the fly
!!!This may not work for everybody (cold ground water) but here in sunny California, I can take ground water in the high 50's and heat it to 170ish by just controlling the flow through the RIMS with a gate valve on my water hose (after going through filtration of course).
This opens up a world of possibilities, namely, not having an HLT and having a true two vessel system (think Brutus 20) with having the ability to fly sparge your grains so your effeciency doesn't suffer (not to say that some Brutus 20 guys don't pull down good efficientcy).
Bottom line, if you have any hesitation left, let it go, this system is bad a$$. :rockin:
willynilly
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Yeah, on the fly sparge water heating is cool. I have not used my 9000W RIMS in that manner, but I can easily get 20F rise with the pump at MAX flow when heating my strike water!
Dont fear the high wattage RIMS!
Dont fear the high wattage RIMS!
Yeah, I have a little more than half of your power available and its not a problem. I am running the water through somewhat slowly, but at a perfect rate for fly sparging. You could probably get by with using one of your elements in your RIMS system. 20 degree F raise in temp at max flow is crazy-I like it
If you run your sparge water in too fast you can disturb the grainbed, build up too much weight compacting the grainbed and it doesn't give you the great efficientcy numbers that fly sparging usually does.
Cheers to homebrewtalk for getting all of this great info out there to all the homebrewers.
wedge421
Well-Known Member
So can someone list the brewday procedure here? I get how to build it but im interested in how to actually use it. Do you load your grain and water into the Mash Tun and then turn the pump and element on and recirculate until the temperature of the water going through the element is 158 or whatever you need it to be? And if that is the case do you get any weird conversions of sugars as the water is being recirculated through the grain at lower temps until it is where you need it to be? And as far as loading the water in with the grain would it just be your initial mash in water that Beersmith would come up with? Thanks>
samc
Well-Known Member
Usually I run some water through the MLT & RIMS to get it hot and make sure nothing was accumulating in it since last brew day, then drain that out and put strike water in. Stir in grains and begin the recirculation at the proper temp (153 example). At about the 50-60 minute mark I up the temp to mash out temp 168F and recirculate, then send that to BK. Next I add in sparge water and recirculate that @ 168F or so for 15 minutes, then send that to BK and hopefully it all works.
Should not be any mashing at temps lower than you want, except of course until you dial it all in and get comfortable with the system.
Should not be any mashing at temps lower than you want, except of course until you dial it all in and get comfortable with the system.
I circulate with water and then dump it making sure everything is clean, then add the amount of water i need, and set my rims to my calculated strike temp. You can calculate this in beer smith by measuring the grain temp and volume. If you heat your strike water in the MT then you dont have to adjust for the equipment temp. after all of this i measure out all my grain, and additions. Add the grain when everything is to temp, and mash how ever you chose.
One thing i do when i transfer to my BK is run it thought the rims into the kettle, That way i can pick up about 10 degrees or more so it takes less time to get to a boil.
RIMS Kicks ass.
One thing i do when i transfer to my BK is run it thought the rims into the kettle, That way i can pick up about 10 degrees or more so it takes less time to get to a boil.
RIMS Kicks ass.
willynilly
Well-Known Member
I circulate with water and then dump it making sure everything is clean, then add the amount of water i need, and set my rims to my calculated strike temp. You can calculate this in beer smith by measuring the grain temp and volume. If you heat your strike water in the MT then you dont have to adjust for the equipment temp. after all of this i measure out all my grain, and additions. Add the grain when everything is to temp, and mash how ever you chose.
One thing i do when i transfer to my BK is run it thought the rims into the kettle, That way i can pick up about 10 degrees or more so it takes less time to get to a boil.
RIMS Kicks ass.
Ditto, I can get a 20F increase in the RIMS at full flow (4gpm), by the time the kettle is full, the boil is a few degrees away.
This only works if you batch sparge or have a Brutus 20.
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I fly sparge through my RIMs heater which flushes the wort out during the process.
Ok you run it through but not at 4 gpm and by the time you fill the BK at fly sparging rates the RIMS isn't helping with heating. Right?
Edit: They are talking about sweet wort going through the RIMS on the way to the BK. Are you referring to sparge water?
willynilly
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Why cant you fly sparge through the RIMS? What is the difference? It is still temp. controlled
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I recirc through the RIMs to maintain temps during the mash... then I reset valves so the output of my HLT is pumped through the RIMs heater (at restricted flow) to fly sparge. During sparge, the RIM's temp is PID controlled but there is not much activity because the HLT water is already heated.
Yes, during sparge, I'm talking about sparge water through the RIMS.
My point is that your not going to raise your wort temp by 20F on the way to the BK through a RIMS vessel. It takes about an hour to run off your final volume. I can see how it would be beneficial if your moving a large volume of water in a short amount of time.
