Spencer Brewery Trappist yeast

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djbradle

djbradle

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So I decided to grab this yeast since it's very fresh and very local. By the aroma and taste it appears as if it's the Westmalle yeast as they may have either a.) bottle conditioned with it to protect their house strain after filtering or b.) used it in primary and in the bottles. I have two other bottle cultures that will be blended with this one in a 1000 ml flask that showed very weak signs. The other two are not producing such a fine krausen. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1420175609.465699.jpgWe'll see.......
 
When I had spencer it had a lot of clove and banana, which I haven't really experienced being so much in the forefront with the Westmalle strain. Maybe they treat it differently.
 
orangehero said:
When I had spencer it had a lot of clove and banana, which I haven't really experienced being so much in the forefront with the Westmalle strain. Maybe they treat it differently.
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I've done numerous triples and goldens and they have that same flavor profile and nose to me. I've primarily used 3787 for those brews and used 530 for my bsda's. My temp profile has been to start in the mid to upper 60's and after 2 days ramp it up artificially to the higher 70's for the next 2-3 weeks. Sometimes in the low 80's. The Willamette and Nugget hops could be throwing off the ability to pinpoint the yeast. They do say that it is "their" family strain and that same yeast is left in the bottle.

I'm interested to see what comes of it. The brew was nice and flavorful and I'm interested in another house strain next to 3522. A second bottle is now fermenting nicely at the moment.
 
Impressive! I just decanted three bottle cultures and pitched them into 1.5 liters of stepped up stater wort. The decanted beer was all pear and candy sweetness. Never had a non hopped starter wort with dme that actually tasted good.
 
So at about two weeks later the brix moved from 17.72 to 8.4 making for a current gravity of about 1.009-1.011. I'll take a hydrometer reading when a another week goes by....

I did get the temp into the 80's last week. The smells were of a sulfur and green component with nothing out of the ordinary compared to all my other belgian ales. A taste from the refractometer sample yielded a very pleasant estery and spicy taste underneath the youth of the fermentation. Very excited for the final result!
 
djbradle said:
So at about two weeks later the brix moved from 17.72 to 8.4 making for a current gravity of about 1.009-1.011. I'll take a hydrometer reading when a another week goes by....

I did get the temp into the 80's last week. The smells were of a sulfur and green component with nothing out of the ordinary compared to all my other belgian ales. A taste from the refractometer sample yielded a very pleasant estery and spicy taste underneath the youth of the fermentation. Very excited for the final result!
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what are the results? I bought a pack when I was visiting home but forgot the two that I was saving to harvest yeast from. It was a good beer made with good yeast, but damn that price
 
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1424838101.115998.jpg


Well, here's about 220 ml's of washed yeast from that batch and a pint of it still conditioning at 70F in a warm room. The taste and smell was dead on for a solid dubbel when I bottled it. It still needs time to carbonate (I bottle everything). No doubt this stuff was pricey but the flavor of the yeast was very intriguing so it was a no brainer to culture. I'll be sipping it in a few more weeks �� It was a very fizzy fermentation with not much of a long standing krausen. I would say it was quite similar to WLP545 and WY3711 and no where near the foam and chunky masses like Wy3522 and Wy3787/Wlp500 are. The smells were as stated; very suluric, with slight funkiness, finishing up in a fruity belgianesqe way. It flocculated very nicely in the bucket into a compact slurry and through the bottles it looks quite clear. All the other details of ferm temps, yada yada yada.... I will post if promising upon tasting.

Will report back promptly.....
 
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1426459586.018451.jpg



Going on youth this yeast is pretty darn expressive! It really tastes good. I popped a 12 oz bottle which is cold conditioned for the past week after being at basement temps for about 3 weeks. Up to around 50F and the taste exhibits some fruitiness, crystal malt sweetness, and prunes more than raisins. It does have a little clove/cinnamon flavor in the background. It appears to be a nice balance between spicy and fruity at this stage. Next one I'll try in about 2 months.
 
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1426462022.998059.jpg


Another shot to show the true color. Since my taste buds are very rough and unrefined I cannot really pinpoint subtleties so well. Warmed up at this point.The special b and caramunich at 4% each are coming through with prominence. The character of the pale ale that Spencer makes is coming through in the taste and it fits a darker beer quite nicely in this test. I think it really is the Westmalle yeast though and not a local or Spencer-specific yeast. Overall a worthy bottle culture.
 
"The key to Spencer’s unique aroma, and the ingredient most responsible for the maturation of its “golden center”, is the family yeast variety that we propagate at the monastery. This live yeast is left in the brew—unfiltered, unpasteurized, all natural."

I'm pretty the "family yeast" they are referring to is the same yeast strain shared between the (10?) Trappist breweries.

Thanks for the follow up! Gonna have to give this a try, as I do enjoy the Abbey ale - when I'm feeling flush enough to afford a four-pack :)

Cheers!
 
Those bottles do have a good amount of slurry at the bottom making an easy grab. Next up will be a quadruple with the washed stuff!
 
day_trippr said:
"The key to Spencer’s unique aroma, and the ingredient most responsible for the maturation of its “golden center”, is the family yeast variety that we propagate at the monastery. This live yeast is left in the brew—unfiltered, unpasteurized, all natural."

I'm pretty the "family yeast" they are referring to is the same yeast strain shared between the (10?) Trappist breweries.

Thanks for the follow up! Gonna have to give this a try, as I do enjoy the Abbey ale - when I'm feeling flush enough to afford a four-pack :)

Cheers!
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I wonder why you state that it's the same strain shared betwixt them. From the one cell that Chimay propagated to become their house strain in the early 20th century(documented in an old vid), how could the other Trappist breweries utilize it with so much varied success? Maybe I missed a blip in the history of the Trappist breweries and their yeast strain cultivation. I always assumed they most of them had their own local yeast culture that they've isolated in their region or home town. Maybe some shared it. Now Spencer brewery may very well have used one of those breweries' yeast as we have discussed though I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't spend significant time on isolating such a fine local strain in their own backyard (hoping that is the case of course).
 
djbradle said:
I wonder why you state that it's the same strain shared betwixt them. From the one cell that Chimay propagated to become their house strain in the early 20th century(documented in an old vid), how could the other Trappist breweries utilize it with so much varied success? Maybe I missed a blip in the history of the Trappist breweries and their yeast strain cultivation. I always assumed they most of them had their own local yeast culture that they've isolated in their region or home town. Maybe some shared it. Now Spencer brewery may very well have used one of those breweries' yeast as we have discussed though I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't spend significant time on isolating such a fine local strain in their own backyard (hoping that is the case of course).
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It seems probable that it's the Westmalle strain...which if I remember BLAM correctly is only shared with Westvleteren. The other trappist breweries use their own.

As to isolating a local yeast culture, this is very improbable. Brewer's yeast has been domesticated over very many years and even more generations (of yeast) before the different strains were isolated relatively recently. The chances of you finding a local yeast that makes something drinkable, much less actually good, is extremely unlikely and would take lots of lab work and trial and error. It's most certainly not what Spencer has done as it's not something any commercial brewery of any significant size would do.

I think you're confused with the history of Lambic brewing, which does depend on local microflora, but it is not a monoculture and only depends in part on S. cerevisiae (the same species as Brewer's yeast). It's mysterious why it works so well in Belgium. Breweries that have tried to replicate their innoculation processes elewhere have not met with much success.

I don't recall reading about how Chimay acquired their strain, but I suppose it's plausible that the other Trappist breweries use some descendant of it.
 
Thanks for the info!

I do understand the difference between wild yeast, lambic brewing, local bugs etc., etc. and assume Sacc. is and was found in the same place either on fruit, grains, air, or animals. Though the process by which breweries found and isolated the sacc strains must take lots of lab work. As you say it makes sense that Spencer didn't spend the efforts to do so. There's a small interview with the Chimay monk who did indeed isolate the breweries' house strain. I can get the video to you if you'd like.

So far I'm enjoying this strain from Spencer as it's very attenuative, flocculates very clear, and produces very nice flavors. That it does not produce any size-able krausen leads me to think otherwise that it's the Westmalle strain. Having done a dubbel and a pale already I'll see what a higher gravity quad will exhibit. Of course being washed after a bottle culture who knows what it has become now ;)
 
orangehero said:
It seems probable that it's the Westmalle strain...which if I remember BLAM correctly is only shared with Westvleteren. The other trappist breweries use their own.

As to isolating a local yeast culture, this is very improbable. Brewer's yeast has been domesticated over very many years and even more generations (of yeast) before the different strains were isolated relatively recently. The chances of you finding a local yeast that makes something drinkable, much less actually good, is extremely unlikely and would take lots of lab work and trial and error. It's most certainly not what Spencer has done as it's not something any commercial brewery of any significant size would do.

I think you're confused with the history of Lambic brewing, which does depend on local microflora, but it is not a monoculture and only depends in part on S. cerevisiae (the same species as Brewer's yeast). It's mysterious why it works so well in Belgium. Breweries that have tried to replicate their innoculation processes elewhere have not met with much success.

I don't recall reading about how Chimay acquired their strain, but I suppose it's plausible that the other Trappist breweries use some descendant of it.
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Didn't Unibroue find yeast hanging out in a very old food cellar that worked really well for beer?
 
djbradle said:
Though the process by which breweries found and isolated the sacc strains must take lots of lab work. As you say it makes sense that Spencer didn't spend the efforts to do so.
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Yes in the May/June BYO article the Director of Spencer Brewery confirms that it's a strain borrowed directly from another monastery, though he declines to confirm which one (I was also thinking Westmalle given that they suggest WY3787 in their clone recipe). He goes on to say they considered using their own strain. They visited a Belgian university and compared 3 other strains that had 40, 60, and 80% genetic overlap with the "family strain". In a blind taste test their little team unanimously picked the original family strain so they went with that.

Thanks for posting your experience so far. I've got a bottle in the fridge getting set to culture!
:mug:
 
I did come across that article and used the refectory ale recipe as posted by someone on the forum, not the one in the article. I just find that the yeast characteristics are somewhat different than Wyeasts' and White Labs' Westmalle strain. Certainly the article states that they tested the 40,60, and 80 percent generic overlap but it didn't specify if the "family strain" (100 %?) was a fourth test control added to the three, therefore what actually is in the bottle is confusing...the 40? 60? 80?

Above all I like it a lot and will use it moreso in other styles. Funny that I brewed a Dubbel with their own yeast before they did but I'm sure some here have taken it a step further.

I say cultivate that yeast with your bottle and run with it. It makes a great dark brew.
 
Forget my last statement about the family strain as I reread the article and it clearly states they tasted the three overlaps "against" the family strain so indeed it must be one of be great ones....

Credit to Rafaelpinto for his thread which had this image embedded https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=485238....

Refectory ale.jpg
 
djbradle said:
I did come across that article and used the refectory ale recipe as posted by someone on the forum, not the one in the article. I just find that the yeast characteristics are somewhat different than Wyeasts' and White Labs' Westmalle strain. Certainly the article states that they tested the 40,60, and 80 percent generic overlap but it didn't specify if the "family strain" (100 %?) was a fourth test control added to the three, therefore what actually is in the bottle is confusing...the 40? 60? 80?

Above all I like it a lot and will use it moreso in other styles. Funny that I brewed a Dubbel with their own yeast before they did but I'm sure some here have taken it a step further.

I say cultivate that yeast with your bottle and run with it. It makes a great dark brew.
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If I'm not mistaken, even the Wyeast and White Labs' yeast can be different from each other and Westmalle. Yeast are genetically flexible. Propagating a whole lab's worth of yeast from one small batch will definitely lead to differences between "identical" strains
 
Makes perfect sense like the dog breed analogy used above or cooking the same pie and having different results....I'm happy to have the variance since often I always want to try something different and have never been stuck on one single brew over and over again. I like the varietals of flavors and aroma.
 
TheHairyHop said:
If I'm not mistaken, even the Wyeast and White Labs' yeast can be different from each other and Westmalle. Yeast are genetically flexible. Propagating a whole lab's worth of yeast from one small batch will definitely lead to differences between "identical" strains
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Yes I assume that's the case as well. I seem to get consistently more pear/apple esters with 3787 vs. more spice with WL530 fermented under the same conditions. Looking forward to trying this strain if I can harvest it okay.
 
Had another dubbel last night. Definitely apple but I would say prune is the other component rather than pear. As I drink more of these the yeast flavors tend towards lighter colored brews though I have a quadrupel and tripel recipe I will be throwing this into to get a better feel for it's characteristics.
 
djbradle said:
Had another dubbel last night. Definitely apple but I would say prune is the other component rather than pear. As I drink more of these the yeast flavors tend towards lighter colored brews though I have a quadrupel and tripel recipe I will be throwing this into to get a better feel for it's characteristics.
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I'll be excited to here what it does with high abv
 
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1428603138.753559.jpg



So here's the Spencer yeast in a tripel on the 48th hour after pitching. There was as expected a foamy (not dense by any means) krausen on the 24th hour after pitch started at 60f. I have it up to 80f now. As it was with the BPA and Dubbel there is a very fizzy fermentation continuing on. I kinda like that it's not blowing off like crazy as compared to all my previous uses with 3787 and 530. It's giving off slight sulfur notes as the my other two brews with it.
 
Oh yes my friend! That's how you get that great Belgian flavor. I won't shoot it up past that unless I'm brewing a saison.
 
I should add the disclaimer that using these high temps needs an good amount of yeast.
 
From immediate memory that yeast is the DeKoninck yeast and I just happen to have Wy3655 which is the equivalent and sitting in my fridge right now. There is almost no info on forums or the web on what that yeast produces in the high temp and high gravity category.

Inasmuch as DeKoninck procures one of the most popular bpa's, their tripel version gets average reviews on craft brew websites. Mostly people rated it as being one dimensional. Now with the bpa version the cleanness of a low temp fermentation would produce accentuated maltiness and noble hop expression. Ferment in the low 60's for the duration.

I am intending to use my wy3655 in a Biere De Garde since I will ferment it cool. Being that the yeast does well with low temps I may find a friendly suitable fermenter rather than a lager yeast or Belgian ale yeast that I have too much experience with.

I would say use your best judgement as I thought of using this with a high gravity wort but am afraid it will not perform as well as the higher tiered favorites. Try for science? Why not.....but in small volume.
 
Great! Start a new thread for historical reference and that I may also find some reference for my 3655.
 
I'm getting ready to use the wlp530 Westmalle strain in a clone of Westvleteren 12. This thread is giving great info for Belgian newbs like myself. I've made a two step starter that has been chilling for about 3 weeks. Would it be wise to do another two steps before pitching late Sunday?
 
It's always nice to pitch an adequately sized active starter so another step would be nice. Just make sure you have enough yeast for your Westy 12 clone batch. A slight underpitch won't hurt you as long as you keep the temps low to start, give some good aeration, and don't be too hasty to raise the temps too soon. If your following the CSI clone thread just follow those guidelines as they seem to have quite a bit of empirical data. Give it 3 days or so if need be. You will always have some extra time to shoot for the complex esters and spice with your ramp up. I did a Belgian dark with 530 about three years ago that spent a few days in the 60's then I brought it up to my attic to hit the mid 80's and the yeast did a great job of exuding complex flavors to match the D180 I used liberally.
 
Okay so I popped another one of the Dubbels and I am floored. This brew is a phenom! Vinous is the first descriptive I have with a balanced maltiness in the background and every other aspect of a Dubbel expressed. 8 gallons a must on the next brew. I have to also add that this yeast floccs extremely clear. On the 22 oz. pour there was not even a hint of sediment, not a hint.
 

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