Diastaticus Yeast in brewery and brewing equipment help

[rtstrider]

Hey all! I was recently gifted a butt ton of exipred yeast from a lhbs. I'm looking to try and bank this up. Two of the strains are WLP067 Coastal Haze and WLP590 French Saison. These strains are diastaticus positive. Last time I used a diastaticus positive strain (Belle Saison) was way back in the bottling days. When using a strain with this characteristic is it best practice to have a dedicated stir bar and draft lines for those yeasts only or is it ok to use the same equipment for other yeast strains and beers? If it's safe is a simple oxiclean soak/starsan regimen the best route to go for everything it touches?

 

[dmtaylor]

Feeling lucky? Roll the dice. Several commercial breweries and thousands of homebrewers have experienced contamination issues. After experiencing this for myself, I feel it is wise to keep soft equipment (hoses, o-rings, gaskets, plastics) that touches diastaticus separated from your normal equipment. I use glass fermenters now so that potential problem is eliminated, otherwise I'd use separate fermenters. I change my hoses every 2-3 years, and if I made a lot of saisons (which I don't), I would have dedicated hoses for that.

Many will claim that sanitizers can kill diastaticus. Others have had different experiences and/or see it as a risk not worth taking. Only you can decide for yourself and your own homebrewery.

 

[rtstrider]

Feeling lucky? Roll the dice. Several commercial breweries and thousands of homebrewers have experienced contamination issues. After experiencing this for myself, I feel it is wise to keep soft equipment (hoses, o-rings, gaskets, plastics) that touches diastaticus separated from your normal equipment. I use glass fermenters now so that potential problem is eliminated, otherwise I'd use separate fermenters. I change my hoses every 2-3 years, and if I made a lot of saisons (which I don't), I would have dedicated hoses for that.

Many will claim that sanitizers can kill diastaticus. Others have had different experiences and/or see it as a risk not worth taking. Only you can decide for yourself and your own homebrewery.

So in this case you would recommend having all of the following seperate?

(I ferment all glass so good there)

Plastic stir bar for yeast starter
Fermenter bung/airlock
Racking cane/hose
Pin Lock Fitting, draft line, would probably have a picnic tap for that one since the hose would need to be dedicated

Does that sound about right?

 

[dmtaylor]

If kegging, the cold side matters a little less... if the yeast remains active in the keg, you'll just use up less CO2. Unless you're leaving your keg untouched for weeks or months at a time, then it will be more prone to gushing. Diastaticus is a bigger deal for those who bottle some or all of their beer. If it's all kegged, you might be able to get away with sharing your keg fittings, beer lines, picnic taps.

But fermentation equipment... yeah, I'd still consider keeping that stuff separate, to avoid occasional or chronic overattenuation issues with the finished product (overly dry, not sweet enough). I mean... did you want ALL your beers to taste like saison?! I'm not saying this will definitely happen. But I'm saying, there is a bit of risk, and it can pop up at random if all your equipment is shared between saisons and other styles.

 

[rtstrider]

Oh no I'm more worried about the keg side lol If I go that route it's going to be in an El cheapo brew bucket that's labeled for just that kind of yeast!

 

[hottpeper13]

In the brewing course I took in Madison we had a 4 hr lecture of cleaning and sanitation. The jist of it was that diastaticus yeast form a film that needs to be removed by mechanical means. I scrub all my equipment after using either of the 2 yeasts I have in my bank.
Bell's Brewery uses a strain and their lab came up with an SOP for dealing with it, you can find it on the ASBC site,or maybe even at the MBAA. I've never read it as I already have my own SOP that works.
I think the fruit meads I make with the saison yeast come in dry and 13%.

 

[MaxStout]

Plastics are porous, and I don't think we can be sure sanitizers will kill enough to prevent reinfection.

Like others mentioned, better to keep a separate set of plastics for diastaticus brews. Buckets, tubing, etc. Anything that comes near the cold-side, post-pitch. Same for anything with nooks and crannies, like valves, fittings, etc.

For hard surfaces like glass and stainless, iodiphor at disinfectant strength (>100 ppm) would be more reliable than Starsan. Of course, you'll have to rinse it.

 

[mashpaddled]

Whether you should keep separate equipment depends on your cleaning and sanitation process. There's no harm to keeping separate equipment (except to your pocketbook and storage space) but it's not required. Oxyclean or PBW will break down biofilms but really outside of kegging equipment. Iodophor or a bleach-based sanitizer will kill diastatic yeast. Starsan doesn't effectively kill yeast as well, so it's not the best option for this purpose. I also run that equipment through a hot cycle in my dishwasher.

I've used bottling equipment or clean, diastaticus, brett and sour beers with no issue. I don't keg those diastaticus, brett and sour beers because I don't want to deal with dismantling all of that equipment every time. You need to be just as diligent with cleaning and sanitizing metal components in your system because biofilms will form on them too. You have to break down taps, keg posts, etc.

 

[rtstrider]

In this case I may just veer clear of those strains unless I'm nearing the end of life of the hoses and such. Don't want to create a new variable for potential issues in the homebrewery.

 

[wepeeler]

Never even gave this a thought! I use Coastal Haze for all my NEIPAs, and I use the same equipment for all my beer making. From Kolsches to Pilsners to Ambers to IPAs. To my knowledge, I've never had a contaminated batch, but I PBW everything (mechanically scrubbing not just CIP) and then Star San.

 

[rtstrider]

Never even gave this a thought! I use Coastal Haze for all my NEIPAs, and I use the same equipment for all my beer making. From Kolsches to Pilsners to Ambers to IPAs. To my knowledge, I've never had a contaminated batch, but I PBW everything (mechanically scrubbing not just CIP) and then Star San.

Well with that knowledge I'll save up for a pond pump and use that to recirc oxiclean/blc through the lines that have D-strain contamination. I use a hand pump now but feel doing even a 15 minute recirc would be much better than the pump.

 

[wepeeler]

I was reading up on this topic today and not all STA1+ yeast strains are diastatic.

Check this out: Under the Microscope: Dealing with Diastaticus in the Brewhouse

Not 100% sure about Coastal Haze, but like I said, I use it exclusively for my NEIPAs in the same equipment that I brew all my other beer. I would think White Labs would issue a warning with the yeast if it was potentially problematic.

 

[pvpeacock]

I use Belle Saison on a regular basis and use the same brewing equipment that I use with all my other beers and yeasts. I thoroughly clean everything with warm/hot PBW and have never had an issue.