What to expect from a Saflager 34/70

I decided to brew NorthernBrewers Bier De Garde today. I did a hybrid of the two different mash schedules --- I did 30 min at 149F, 30 mins at 158F, drained the mash then did a 170F for 30 min to get the rest of the volume for the boil. Everything went well, I chilled the wort down to 62F then went to re-hydrate the yeast and noticed I grabbed Saflager 34/70 instead of Saflager S-23 like the recipe calls for. I was planning on fermenting S-23 at 60-62F. I have a temp controller and the ability to do lagers, I just haven't before. I hit 1.070 for OG and had 5 gallons of wort after the boil. I did a little thread reading homebrewtalk to get a feel for how to lager. It looks like pitching 1 packets is under pitching. I pitched at 62F and put the carboy in the cooler, It is currently cooling down to 54F. It looks like lagers take longer to completely ferment out and may need a d-rest. What does underpitching this yeast do as far a flavor in concerned -- diacetyl? Does lager yeast krausen like ale yeast?

less Krausen, 54F should be fine. S34/70 is actually the only lager yeast I have used and it has treated me well. (Afraid a little to try others as I am mostly doing ales) I'm not sure how much issue you might have starting at 62F as I have always started this yeast around 55F or a bit lower. I wouldn't expect huge krausen but some. I've let it run for a couple weeks then let temp rise. Probably not a proper diacetyl rest as I didn't measure but there has been no noticeable diacetyl tastes. From everything I have read about S-23, S-34/70 is cleaner.

With the low pitch rate I would suggest making sure there is a few points left of sugar to eat at the end when you raise temp for a diacetyl rest. I have no idea if that is the real risk but it is what I would be worried about. much luck!

Most of the HB stores are closed today. I was thinking about buying another pack of 34/70 and adding it to the fermenter. The earliest I can add it would be tomorrow night...

nate_ive said:

Everything went well, I chilled the wort down to 62F then went to re-hydrate the yeast and noticed I grabbed Saflager 34/70 instead of Saflager S-23 like the recipe calls for. I was planning on fermenting S-23 at 60-62F.

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you know S-23 is a lager yeast too right?

Yeah I know that s-23 is a lager yeast --- the northern brewer site says s-23 ferments clean at ale temperatures and is estery/fruity at lager temperatures. Their recipe indicates that s-23 should be fermented at ale temps for their Bier De Garde.

I think I just looked that the s-23 box in the fridge at the store and grabbed the first packet in there. I need to pay closer attention to the packet label instead of the box label next time.

Let us know how it turns out,ill probably use 34/70 next since i havent tried it, I thought s-23 was really good i fermented 52-57 diacetal rest after a week for 2 days @ 60-65 racked then lagered for 3 weeks @45ish bottle conditioned room temp 4 weeks then stuck them in the fridge for cold conditioning.
Sounds like you could have pitched2- 3 packs maybe? With that gravity.I wouldnt worry about it. Although i would do 3 days for a dicytal rest once it gets pretty slow.

I pitched the 34/70 the night before around 5PM. I checked it when I got home last night at 6PM and there is an inch of fine white foam. The airlock is going at a rate of about 1 bubble per second(faster then what I have read being reported on the forums). So I have an active fermentation in about 12 hrs. The temp controller set at 52F( I have a thermowell in the beer) and everything is looking pretty good.

It sounds like 2 packets would probably be needed for 5 gallons at 1.070. The online northern brewer directions for a 34/70 beer said to pitch as close to 58F as possible. I didn't notice I had the 34/70 until I had already pulled the chiller and had the wort whirlpooling. I usually let the wort stand for 30-40 mins for the hops and trub to settle after the chiller step -- I use that time to re-hydrate the yeast. Rather then risk contamination and put the chiller back in to chill down the final 4 degrees to 58F, I decided to pitch slightly warm at 62F. I will update this thread with my results.

2 packets is good for a regular strength beer, you probably shoulda used 3 for that. I get some diacetyl from 34/70 when I pitch in the 60's, but nothing that doesn't clean up during a proper d-rest. I also get sulfur, which again cleans up over time. For me 34/70 is the lager yeast that starts out with a bunch of off-flavors and cleans itself up well... your patience will be rewarded with a more interesting, 'european' flavor compared to the s-23.

At the end of the day though, they're going to make quite similar beers, the differences are only slightly noticable in a 10-gallon batch of helles I split and used the 2 yeasts on.

Sulfur smell or taste? So far there is no sulfur smell out of the airlock, there is a slight fruity smell. It is nowhere as strong as the fruity smell coming out of the Muntons premium gold ale yeast I used on an Irish red in my other carboy.

I have have tasted a couple of diacetyl bombs( Shipyard export ale, Tom Crean's lager, Olde Main Brewing's Clone Ale). The Clone ale was pretty awful since it was billed as a "clean american pale ale", but I liked the others. I know what diacetyl tastes like and I know diacetyl is a huge defect in a lager.

Last night, I started allowing the temperature to raise for the D-rest. I was in Florida for a buddies wedding this weekend, so I wasn't able to check the gravity. I got home last night about midnight and saw the krausen was dropping. I upper the temp controller set point to 68. It has only risen 3 degrees from 51F as of this morning. I know that I should have taken the gravity. From looking at the forums, it looks like 2 days at ale temps is what people do for a d-rest.

Normally 2-3.Since you may have underpiched i would recommend 3 days.Especially since its slowly rising.Which is good.

Perfect, at least something will go as planned on this beer. The controller is reading 62F now. I leave for Phoenix tomorrow and get back home Friday night. Then I will take a gravity reading, if that looks good I will slowly drop the temp to 38F.

The gravity of the Biere De Garde is 1.018. The taste of the honey malt and aromatic malt is quite pronounced. There is a slight alcohol warmth (it is ~7%). No Diacetyl!!!! I'm starting to drop the temp for the lagering. There appears to be no ill effects from the underpitching so far... I bottle so maybe it will show up at bottling. I didn't really aerate other then rack the wort through a hop bag and funnel screen from the boil kettle to the carboy. That may bite me when I go to bottle carbonate. Cheers!!!

I subscribed to this thread because I'm curious as to how your beer turns out. I have an extra packet of 34/70 in my fridge that I was thinking about using for a California Common.

I'm learning through mistakes.

It has lagered for a month at 37F. I bottled it today. There was a half a bottle at the end of bottling -- so I drank it. The priming sugar added a little sweetness, but the aromatic and honey malt are very dominate. The beer is very clear, very clean and tastes great for a flat beer. No diacetyl. The alcohol warmth is gone. I bottled with 4.2 oz of table sugar to get ~2.5 volumes of carbonation.

Either the yeast is very forgiving or 1 packet of 34/70 for 5 gallons of 1.070 non-aerated wort is sufficient. I still have to see how the beer is after carbonation, but it is stellar so far...and there appears to be no reason to pitch more then one packet. Time will tell. I will update in a few weeks after it has carbonated. Thanks for all the responses.

The beer has carbonated. The aromatic malt may need more time to age into the beer, but the beer is fantastic. It is smooth and clean. No diacetyl. The head doesn't last long, but it is my experience that head retention is only good on the beer recipes where I add 1lb of flaked barley/rye/oats/wheat or dry hop. 1 packet of this yeast knocked it out of the park!!!! I'm very impressed with 34/70.

nate_ive said:

I'm very impressed with 34/70.

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I use W34/70 all the time. I buy it by the brick.
I usually rehydrate 40 grams of yeast for a 1050 lager at 50f.

Love me some 34/70 as well. So much so that I really can't see a need to add another lager yeast to my rotation any time soon, as 34/70 seems to make great German-style lagers. I'll echo other by saying that next time, use 2 packets minimum, just in case. Its awesome that your beer turned out great with just one. Goes to show you that beer is a funny thing, and will mostly turn out good no matter what little things you mess up on.

I recently used 34/70 on a Pumpkin Lager that I was really, really happy with. Pils/Munich base, with C60 and C120, vanilla bean and pumpkin pie spice for flavor. Delicious. I've also used 34/70 on a Munich Helles and a Vienna Lager. In fact, I'm re-brewing the Vienna Lager with 34/70 tomorrow as a 'No Chill'. I LOVE THIS YEAST! It's got more character than S-189, which is good, but very plain. S-23 I stay away from because I've heard it gets real fruity real quick.

Nice wait till it carbonates a few weeks then lager them in your fridge a while,they just get better.

Tasted it again yesterday. The aromatic malt has blended more. There is a bit more carbonation and less sweetness. So it was still carbonating, it tastes even better and the head retention it better -- 1 inch after the pour.

I did my first batch with 34/70 recently with a pilsner. It's aging rather nicely. I have yet to lager it and it's super clean with no Diacytl rest. I think I'll be taking this one straight to the lagerator. I did a 12 gallon batch with this yeast and Pilsner Urquell from Wyeast. Both taste very very similar. I think the Urquell yeast comes in slightly more clean and crisp. The Urquell yeast had a massive 2 gallon starter that I ramped up twice. ;-) So that helps. Also, I did pitch both of these cold at 45 F. They both fermented well for 3 weeks and both attenuated perfectly. Anyhow, I thought I'd drop that line for folks.

Good to hear. Saturday I'm brewing a hoppy German Pils with an estimated OG of 1.047 using Saflager 34/70. Going to pitch 2 rehydrated packs at fermenting temp just to be safe.

You'll be just fine. Mine didn't take right off but I started them cold. They perked along real slow for about 3 weeks. The OG on this beer was 1.047. I think for me, even though I own a homebrew shop, I'll likely continue to use 34/70 for my lagers. It's easy and reliable. I used it this time because my smack packs didn't take off quick enough for me. 48 hours and no signs of fermentation... Yeah... I brewed a double batch on a whim for a friend. I had plenty of starter.... for one batch!

Cheers,

Joe Gill
Mount Baldy Brewing Supply

boo boo said:

I use W34/70 all the time. I buy it by the brick.
I usually rehydrate 40 grams of yeast for a 1050 lager at 50f.

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I too use W34/70 often and think its the bees knees, I usually pitch 2 packs as others have said. Where do you buy this by the brick if you don't mind me asking?