Your favourite AK recipe?

[marc1]

@Miraculix now I think I have to try one of these.

I've got a couple lagers next, but after that...

 

[Miraculix]

@Miraculix now I think I have to try one of these.

I've got a couple lagers next, but after that...

British ales are all about the yeast! Right yeast, great ale!

 

[marc1]

British ales are all about the yeast! Right yeast, great ale?

I've used 002 a bunch of times, but I'm changing things up. I'm going to try WLP066, which seems to be the White Labs' answer to WY1318.

 

[Miraculix]

I've used 002 a bunch of times, but I'm changing things up. I'm going to try WLP066, which seems to be the White Labs' answer to WY1318.

Do yourself a favour and give verdant IPA a try. It's brilliant!

 

[kevin58]

Here's one with the expected corn adjunct along with a little historical background.

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2021/03/lets-brew-wednesday-1896-eldridge-pope.html

 

[dmtaylor]

Thanks for sharing this whole process, Miraculix. I'm putting this one on deck to brew sometime over the next year or so. Cheers.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I've been thinking about these early AKs without any corn to balance the high hop rate.

In the 1890s they would've been using a malt such as Chevalier, yes? As described earlier in the thread, Chevalier carries with it a sweet goodness that negates a need for a crystal addition. Are these old AKs counting on that sweetness in the old pale malt?

Kind of like American Southern cornbread. My mother-in-law forswears any and all sugar in hers. My wife will add a tablespoon to appease my Yankee sensibilities. That's when she uses standard box store cornmeal. When she uses a really good heritage meal, no sugar needed. The heritage corn brings a sweetness and fullness of flavor all by itself. My MIL's old family recipe likely used a sweeter corn variety a few generations back. Using the same recipe with modern commodity cornmeal makes a rather bland cornbread. But please, please, don't tell her that.

I'm thinking today's Shut Up offering is just begging for Pub and Chevalier.
Let's Brew - 1887 Fullers AK

 

[Miraculix]

I've been thinking about these early AKs without any corn to balance the high hop rate.

In the 1890s they would've been using a malt such as Chevalier, yes? As described earlier in the thread, Chevalier carries with it a sweet goodness that negates a need for a crystal addition. Are these old AKs counting on that sweetness in the old pale malt?

Kind of like American Southern cornbread. My mother-in-law forswears any and all sugar in hers. My wife will add a tablespoon to appease my Yankee sensibilities. That's when she uses standard box store cornmeal. When she uses a really good heritage meal, no sugar needed. The heritage corn brings a sweetness and fullness of flavor all by itself. My MIL's old family recipe likely used a sweeter corn variety a few generations back. Using the same recipe with modern commodity cornmeal makes a rather bland cornbread. But please, please, don't tell her that.

I'm thinking today's Shut Up offering is just begging for Pub and Chevalier.
Let's Brew - 1887 Fullers AK

I don't think that it works like this. In my experience, Chevalier provides additional flavour without any additional sweetness. I also don't really taste any sweetness from the corn to be honest, maybe it's the same effect that you were talking about, maybe it's just the wrong kind of corn?

My personal idea (which might be bs) is that aks were kept for a long time, before being drunk. This would smooth out the high hop rate. Also, the hops back then probably lost already a high percentage of their alpha acids due to natural level decrease without refrigeration or vacuum sealing. So I think the Ibus were lower and the storage time smoothed it out additionally.

Nowadays people are so used to real hop bombs, that they actually tolerate higher ibus. This all might play a role.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I don't think that it works like this. In my experience, Chevalier provides additional flavour without any additional sweetness. I also don't really taste any sweetness from the corn to be honest, maybe it's the same effect that you were talking about, maybe it's just the wrong kind of corn?

My personal idea (which might be bs) is that aks were kept for a long time, before being drunk. This would smooth out the high hop rate. Also, the hops back then probably lost already a high percentage of their alpha acids due to natural level decrease without refrigeration or vacuum sealing. So I think the Ibus were lower and the storage time smoothed it out additionally.

Nowadays people are so used to real hop bombs, that they actually tolerate higher ibus. This all night play a role.

So many intangibles.

On another front, just saw this pop up on homebrewfinds.com

https://shop.greatfermentations.com...r-malted-corn/flaked-grains-adjuncts?a=cv3hbf
There's a local seed-to-bottle distillery making whiskies with heirloom varieties including bloody butcher. Damned tasty.

 

[kevin58]

My personal idea (which might be bs) is that aks were kept for a long time, before being drunk.

They were at least kept but I don't know for how long. The meaning of the AK designation, mention of its aging, strength and hopping rate are in this article...

https://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2021/04/ak-1878-1911.html

 

[marc1]

So many intangibles.

On another front, just saw this pop up on homebrewfinds.com

https://shop.greatfermentations.com...r-malted-corn/flaked-grains-adjuncts?a=cv3hbf
There's a local seed-to-bottle distillery making whiskies with heirloom varieties including bloody butcher. Damned tasty.

Hmmm... I can get that locally!

https://www.hausmalts.com/product-page/malted-heritage-corn
Maybe I'll make my first AK all retro fancy with it.

Malted corn (crushed) can just go in the mash with everything else, right?

 

[DBhomebrew]

Malted corn (crushed) can just go in the mash with everything else, right?

Yep!

 

[ba-brewer]

Flaked corn can be mashed at malted barley temps because it was sort of cooked and pregelatinized during the rolling process, but it seem like malted corn might need a higher mash rest to get all of the starches to gelatinized.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Perhaps it's a question particular to the maltster. Sugar Creek says theirs is ready for a single infusion mash. No cereal mash needed.

http://www.sugarcreekmalt.com/store/p46/BLOODY_BUTCHER_CORN_[MALTED]_OUT_OF_STOCK.html

 

[marc1]

Some quick searching gave very little info on malted corn for brewing.

I could mash in hot with the malted corn only, let it sit a while and cool, then add the rest of my grain.

I've emailed Haus malts about theirs.

 

[marc1]

They got back to me already (after 10PM on a Saturday is some commitment!) I've tried sacks of their Vienna and Munich barley and they taste great. Looks like I'll be getting malted heirloom corn (but probably only 5 or 10 pounds) at some point here too.

It sounds like the answer is... sorta

I think I'm going to mash in hot with only the corn when I do this, then add the rest of the grains later when it cools to regular mash in temp.

Hi Marc,

Great question! Malting does convert some of the starches to sugar, it does not convert all of them. The remaining starches are not changed and need to be cereal mashed to gelatinize for fast conversion. During a regular mash, with malted barley, the malted corn would eventually convert. Malted corn has low enzyme content so no enzyme loss by gelatinzing it.

We also sell raw hammermilled grain (including corn) if you are interested. Price is $0.45/lb for corn, $0.50/lb for rye and wheat.

Cheers,
Andrew

 

[ba-brewer]

They got back to me already (after 10PM on a Saturday is some commitment!) I've tried sacks of their Vienna and Munich barley and they taste great. Looks like I'll be getting malted heirloom corn (but probably only 5 or 10 pounds) at some point here too.

It sounds like the answer is... sorta

I think I'm going to mash in hot with only the corn when I do this, then add the rest of the grains later when it cools to regular mash in temp.

I grew some glass corn (Native american heritage corn)in my yard and used it raw(unmalted) in a cream ale. I did a modified cereal mash, mashed in just the corn at 170 then added some malted barley when it cooled to 160 and allow that to drop down to 150 over 40min when it was all pretty much converted. That stuff went into the mash with the remaining barley malt. No boiling just some extra time and extra dirty pot.

 

[kevin58]

Apparently Ron doesn't use auto correct or proof read before hitting the send button...

https://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2021/04/ak-grists-1878-1911.html

 

[Miraculix]

Apparently Ron doesn't use auto correct or proof read before hitting the send button...

https://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2021/04/ak-grists-1878-1911.html

 

[Miraculix]

I grew some glass corn (Native american heritage corn)in my yard and used it raw(unmalted) in a cream ale. I did a modified cereal mash, mashed in just the corn at 170 then added some malted barley when it cooled to 160 and allow that to drop down to 150 over 40min when it was all pretty much converted. That stuff went into the mash with the remaining barley malt. No boiling just some extra time and extra dirty pot.

And on the technical side... Wow. Up to more then 30% sugar, averaging at whooping 20%. That's a lot.

 

[kevin58]

@Miraculix I hope he has a few that are more recent.

 

[kmarkstevens]

AK seems to have died out as a style in the 1930's. These were all partigyled anyway. Any "modern" recipes are new vs being a unbroken pedigree brewed for over a 100 years.

 

[patto1ro]

AK seems to have died out as a style in the 1930's. These were all partigyled anyway. Any "modern" recipes are new vs being a unbroken pedigree brewed for over a 100 years.

The brewery in my hometown - Holes, later Courage - still had AK as its flagship beer in the 1980s. Many AKs were parti-gyled, but not all of them.

 

[kmarkstevens]

The brewery in my hometown - Holes, later Courage - still had AK as its flagship beer in the 1980s. Many AKs were parti-gyled, but not all of them.

Fair point, and I had just assumed these were all parti-gyled. Like anything, there are outliers vs the "standard". If nothing else, the Shut Up About Barkley blog makes the point that there are plenty of brewery exceptions to the "standard" for every beer style in the Isles.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I think you'll find patto1ro is more than familiar with the contents of Shut Up About BarClAy Perkins....

 

[Northern_Brewer]

AK seems to have died out as a style in the 1930's. These were all partigyled anyway. Any "modern" recipes are new vs being a unbroken pedigree brewed for over a 100 years.

McMullen claim to have brewed their AK continuously for 185 years, but it is an exception, it's the coelacanth of the beer world. And obviously there will have been tweaks to the recipe, they wouldn't have been using WGV in the 19th century. Also worth noting its strapline is "The Original Mild"...

 

[kevin58]

Fair point, and I had just assumed these were all parti-gyled. Like anything, there are outliers vs the "standard". If nothing else, the Shut Up About Barkley blog makes the point that there are plenty of brewery exceptions to the "standard" for every beer style in the Isles.

And you just replied to Ron Pattinson (patto1ro) who writes that blog.

 

[kmarkstevens]

And you just replied to Ron Pattinson (patto1ro) who writes that blog.

D'oh! Color me embarrased!

To be clear, that was a compliment! His Whitbread 1930 AK at 56 IBU blew away my perception of british beers being mildly hopped, and is in my regular rotation. And his birthday recipe for me was a parti-gyled Fuller's AK beauty from 1925 (right day but Ron had to go back in years to deliver on my request for a 3%ish ABV recipe). LOL, that's prolly where it stuck in my head that AK's were all parti-gyled.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Alrighty, then. Time for me to brew up an AK.

85% Fawcett Optic
5% Flaked Corn
10% DIY Invert
FWH EKG 3.5%AA 2-7/8oz (49IBU calc'd as 60m)
0m EKG 3.5%AA 1oz
Dry Hop EKG 3.5%AA 1/8oz (.25g/l)

Mash 60m @ 152°F
Boil 60m
OG 1.043
FG 1.009
Pub @ 68°F
BU:GU=1.13

 

[Miraculix]

Alrighty, then. Time for me to brew up an AK.

85% Fawcett Optic
5% Flaked Corn
10% DIY Invert
FWH EKG 3.5%AA 2-7/8oz (49IBU calc'd as 60m)
0m EKG 3.5%AA 1oz
Dry Hop EKG 3.5%AA 1/8oz (.25g/l)

Mash 60m @ 152°F
Boil 60m
OG 1.043
FG 1.009
Pub @ 68°F
BU:GU=1.13

Sounds good, let us know how it goes! Maybe pub does not get low enough though...