Your favorite Kolsch recipe with 34/70 and American hops?

[bstacy1974]

Well, I guess I stirred the pot asking a simple question. Please don't take offense to this statement. We're all passionate about our homebrew and I really appreciate all the feedback.
Yes, it's true that it's not a true kolsch but I'm not entering this beer into competition, so it doesn't matter all that much. I take the position to classify my beers as they drink. So, if it drinks or taste more like a blonde after packaging, I'll call it a blonde.
Thanks for the suggestions for liquid yeast but I don't have access to liquid yeast locally. I'm limited to dry yeast. I probably should have said that up front.
I'm pretty sure others have suggested warm fermented 34/70 as a dry yeast alternative for a Kolsch. This was before Lallemand came out with a dry Kolsch yeast. Again, can't get it locally yet, so I was going with what I had in my inventory.
With that said, I was able to pick up some K-97. What's everyone's experience with this strain?

 

[Broothru]

Well, I guess I stirred the pot asking a simple question. Please don't take offense to this statement. We're all passionate about our homebrew and I really appreciate all the feedback.
Yes, it's true that it's not a true kolsch but I'm not entering this beer into competition, so it doesn't matter all that much. I take the position to classify my beers as they drink. So, if it drinks or taste more like a blonde after packaging, I'll call it a blonde.
Thanks for the suggestions for liquid yeast but I don't have access to liquid yeast locally. I'm limited to dry yeast. I probably should have said that up front.
I'm pretty sure others have suggested warm fermented 34/70 as a dry yeast alternative for a Kolsch. This was before Lallemand came out with a dry Kolsch yeast. Again, can't get it locally yet, so I was going with what I had in my inventory.
With that said, I was able to pick up some K-97. What's everyone's experience with this strain?

K-97 was derived from K-96, which was an ale sample archived at the Seibel Institute lab. K-96 is supposedly the isolated yeast strain used by the old Balentine Brewery in Baltimore (try saying that 5 times quickly).

The story goes that when Sierra Nevada was starting out early in the craft beer boom that they obtained a sample of K-97 from Seibel to use in SNPA, and thus the "Chico" strain was born.

If the story is accurate, then you're brewing a German hybrid beer with what has become one of the most versatile and ubiquitous ale yeasts known to mankind! Not saying it would be bad or good (though most likely it would be quite nice). The only downside would be getting full attenuation when fermenting an ale yeast at lager temperatures.

The recommended fermentation temperature for K-97 is as low as 59F, but it's actual low end temperature is 54F, so anywhere in between those two temperatures should work without stalling out on you. 55F-56F would be my choice, but be willing to wait it out to make sure fermentation is complete before packaging.

 

[couchsending]

K-97 was derived from K-96, which was an ale sample archived at the Seibel Institute lab. K-96 is supposedly the isolated yeast strain used by the old Balentine Brewery in Baltimore (try saying that 5 times quickly).

The story goes that when Sierra Nevada was starting out early in the craft beer boom that they obtained a sample of K-97 from Seibel to use in SNPA, and thus the "Chico" strain was born.

If the story is accurate, then you're brewing a German hybrid beer with what has become one of the most versatile and ubiquitous ale yeasts known to mankind! Not saying it would be bad or good (though most likely it would be quite nice). The only downside would be getting full attenuation when fermenting an ale yeast at lager temperatures.

The recommended fermentation temperature for K-97 is as low as 59F, but it's actual low end temperature is 54F, so anywhere in between those two temperatures should work without stalling out on you. 55F-56F would be my choice, but be willing to wait it out to make sure fermentation is complete before packaging.

I think you have your yeasts mixed up.

K-97 is the dry form of 1007.

I think you’re thinking of Bry-97, Bry-96. Bry-96 is the supposed source of Chico.

If you want the old Ballantine strain your can but it from East Coast Yeast. It’s called Old Newark Ale, and it’s awesome. Faster, fruitier, and more flocculent than Chico. Doesn’t mask hops. Makes hazy beer and crystal clear beer with ease.

 

[Broothru]

I think you have your yeasts mixed up.

K-97 is the dry form of 1007.

I think you’re thinking of Bry-97, Bry-96. Bry-96 is the supposed source of Chico.

If you want the old Ballantine strain your can but it from East Coast Yeast. It’s called Old Newark Ale, and it’s awesome. Faster, fruitier, and more flocculent than Chico. Doesn’t mask hops. Makes hazy beer and crystal clear beer with ease.

Yeah, workin' from memory that's not as solid as in days gone by. Conflating and flatulence are the two banes of those of us "of a certain age."

 

[odie]

Dry kolsch yeast is available. Well that's what my stuff is labeled as. An alternative would be K-97, A German ale yeast. Kolsch is a German ale fermented at lager temperatures.

The "cologne malt" mentioned above kinda sounds like "kolsch malt". Weyermann has it and maybe a couple other European malters. I scored a 55lb sack a couple years ago. Likely I will never again see kolsch malt in the US for a long time

 

[Broothru]

Dry kolsch yeast is available. Well that's what my stuff is labeled as. An alternative would be K-97, A German ale yeast. Kolsch is a German ale fermented at lager temperatures.

The "cologne malt" mentioned above kinda sounds like "kolsch malt". Weyermann has it and maybe a couple other European malters. I scored a 55lb sack a couple years ago. Likely I will never again see kolsch malt in the US for a long time

I found several Cologne and Heidelberg style malts with an online search. Not as common as other malts from German maltsters, but it's very light and probably is the perfect grain for brewing a Kolsch.

 

[Dancy]

Unfortunately, I'm limited to dry yeast by my local shop. I'll check in tomorrow to see if they have any K97.

Or

 

[bstacy1974]

Or
View attachment 731908

That's what was referring to. My local store doesn't have it. I've requested they get some, but their not very responsive to customers. This is $11 per pack on Amazon. It's cheaper on other websites, but shipping is $10 to $15. One of the downsides to living in interior Alaska.

 

[couchsending]

I found several Cologne and Heidelberg style malts with an online search. Not as common as other malts from German maltsters, but it's very light and probably is the perfect grain for brewing a Kolsch.

The malt I’m referring to is from Weyermann. It’s specially called Cologne malt and is pretty darn close to Vienna.

The dried Kolsch yeast from Lallemand blows. It requires twice as much yeast cause the cell count is so low per gram.

I disagree that Kolsch needs to be fermented cold. I believe most Commercial Kolsch is fermented in the mid to low 60s. I know the most awarded Kolsch brewed in the US is fermented at 65 (Chuckanut). It should be lagered for extended period if time but a cold fermented profile is some sort of myth in my mind.

 

[Broothru]

The malt I’m referring to is from Weyermann. It’s specially called Cologne malt and is pretty darn close to Vienna.

The dried Kolsch yeast from Lallemand blows. It requires twice as much yeast cause the cell count is so low per gram.

I disagree that Kolsch needs to be fermented cold. I believe most Commercial Kolsch is fermented in the mid to low 60s. I know the most awarded Kolsch brewed in the US is fermented at 65 (Chuckanut). It should be lagered for extended period if time but a cold fermented profile is some sort of myth in my mind.

I did find the Weyermann Cologne after a web search.it looks like it could be utilized at 100% of the mash, but a blend with another German base grain plus some acid and/or carapils would add depth. Good point on the fermentation temperature: ferment like a low ester ale, extended cold condition like a lager.

I'm psyched and ready, though family plans will probably put the brew session off until after the 4th of July.

 

[Dancy]

@bstacy1974 -
Sorry to hear that though there are some obvious upsides to where you live - a beautiful place. I pay $6.99 locally at Midwest Supplies here in St. Louis Park, Minnesota.

 

[odie]

I used kolsch malt at 100% but now blend 50/50 with pils. Basically trying to make that rare sack of German malt last. Once I run out of German kolsch malt I can't honestly call it a "kolsch" beer any more IMO. Most "kolsch" beers in the US are just using pilsner malts. Way cheaper but a bit dishonest...like making an English pub ale with domestic 2-rwo and not MO...it will taste fine but deep inside, you know it ain't right...

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

BTW the wheat would not be Reinheitsgebot, but 4 oz will help head retention and lacing...!

The Reinheitsgebot made an exception for wheat. Otherwise there would not be any hefeweizens.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

I did find the Weyermann Cologne after a web search.it looks like it could be utilized at 100% of the mash, but a blend with another German base grain plus some acid and/or carapils would add depth. Good point on the fermentation temperature: ferment like a low ester ale, extended cold condition like a lager.

The Kolsch malt is too malty for a Kolsch. I tried it. Stick with Pilsener malt.

 

[Broothru]

The Kolsch malt is too malty for a Kolsch. I tried it. Stick with Pilsener malt.

How about BestMalz Heidelberg malt? It looks to be darker than Weyermann Cologne and most German pilsners. I'm thinking to probably go with no more than 50% Kolsch malt, probably 30~40%, with a touch of carapils and acidulated, and the majority pilsner. Hops will be Perle and Spalt, with WLP029 for the pitch.

 

[Beermeister32]

Monkeymath has an interesting explanation why and where wheat can be used:


Only the breweries affiliated with the ruler were allowed to use wheat. It served a dual purpose of reserving wheat for baked goods and creating a state-owned monopoly on Hefeweizen.
And yes, it is dumb that you often find "In line with the Reinheitsgebot of 1516" on bottles of Hefeweizen.

Today, beer production is regulated by the "vorläufiges Biergesetz" (or "preliminary beer law"). This law is still often alluded to as "Reinheitsgebot" (a term which is itself of unclear origin). In particular, it allows the use of grains other than barley in ales, but not lagers. Therefore, wheat can be used in Kölsch, although it is not a typical ingredient.

 

[Broothru]

Monkeymath has an interesting explanation why and where wheat can be used:


Only the breweries affiliated with the ruler were allowed to use wheat. It served a dual purpose of reserving wheat for baked goods and creating a state-owned monopoly on Hefeweizen.
And yes, it is dumb that you often find "In line with the Reinheitsgebot of 1516" on bottles of Hefeweizen.

Today, beer production is regulated by the "vorläufiges Biergesetz" (or "preliminary beer law"). This law is still often alluded to as "Reinheitsgebot" (a term which is itself of unclear origin). In particular, it allows the use of grains other than barley in ales, but not lagers. Therefore, wheat can be used in Kölsch, although it is not a typical ingredient.

I think it's also true that compliance with the Purity Laws was not universally followed, outside of Bavaria. IIRC it was viewed in northern regions of Germany as "suggested guidelines."

 

[dirty_martini]

People get too pissy about styles. Let’s remember that most beer styles came from availability of ingredients and local water source. We live in a different time where sourcing anything we want from all across the world is available. So if you want to brew a kölsch with American ingredients and a lager yeast, so be it. Unless it’s in Koln it’s a “kolsch-style” anyway. If anything, it’s more traditional to brew with what’s locally available to you.

34/70 ferments well at ale temperatures anyway. Some brewers are using it for west coast IPAs even though it’s technically a lager yeast. I’d say fermenting 34/70 at Kölsch temps (58-62F) you will get the clean lager like character of a kolsch with a small touch of esters from the elevated temps. Ultimately, the beer is inspired by kolsch. To brew one traditionally, yes you need the right ingredients. However, if you want something close or inspired by kolsch, you’ll do just fine with what you have.

 

[Garage12brewing]

People get too pissy about styles. Let’s remember that most beer styles came from availability of ingredients and local water source. We live in a different time where sourcing anything we want from all across the world is available. So if you want to brew a kölsch with American ingredients and a lager yeast, so be it. Unless it’s in Koln it’s a “kolsch-style” anyway. If anything, it’s more traditional to brew with what’s locally available to you.

34/70 ferments well at ale temperatures anyway. Some brewers are using it for west coast IPAs even though it’s technically a lager yeast. I’d say fermenting 34/70 at Kölsch temps (58-62F) you will get the clean lager like character of a kolsch with a small touch of esters from the elevated temps. Ultimately, the beer is inspired by kolsch. To brew one traditionally, yes you need the right ingredients. However, if you want something close or inspired by kolsch, you’ll do just fine with what you have.

Amen... and sometimes you need to brew with your feelings/taste. Experimentation always make us better brewers.

 

[pvpeacock]

I have used Citra in my Kolsch style ales and it is delicious -- nice and citrusy and clean. I usually use Imperial Yeast's Deiter, but have also used the Lallemand dry Kolsch yeast with great success.

 

[Reneauj62]

The Reinheitsgebot made an exception for wheat. Otherwise there would not be any hefeweizens.

Reinheitsgebot never made an exception. Reinheitsgebot, issued in Ingolstadt in 1516, had three aims: to protect drinkers from high prices; to ban the use of wheat in beer so more bread could be made; and to stop unscrupulous brewers from adding dubious toxic and even hallucinogenic ingredients as preservatives or flavourings. As things evolved and wheat became more abundant, brewers ignored the law and the law became either out of date or was unenforceable, then wheat began showing up in beers like Hefeweizens. Wheat was not allowed in beer because the decree wanted the wheat to feed the masses.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Reinheitsgebot never made an exception. Reinheitsgebot, issued in Ingolstadt in 1516, had three aims: to protect drinkers from high prices; to ban the use of wheat in beer so more bread could be made; and to stop unscrupulous brewers from adding dubious toxic and even hallucinogenic ingredients as preservatives or flavourings. As things evolved and wheat became more abundant, brewers ignored the law and the law became either out of date or was unenforceable, then wheat began showing up in beers like Hefeweizens. Wheat was not allowed in beer because the decree wanted the wheat to feed the masses.

Call it what you want, but I call it an "exception":

What about wheat? Readers familiar with Weiβbier, Altbier, of Kölsch might ask why Germans are permitted to brew these beers because they include wheat as an ingredient. The exception for wheat dates back to the inception of the Reinheitsgebot, when the Wittelsbachs allowed the continuance of the existing feudal wheat beer brewing privilege exclusively held by the Degenberger family. Controlled by the Wittelsbachs, this exclusive right not only maintained a secure market for the new barley beers, it also created a monopoly for wheat beer brewing.

 

[Reneauj62]

Call it what you want, but I call it an "exception":

I think the more accurate statement is that YOU made the exception , not Reinheitsgobot. You're responding as though Reinheitsgebot is still in effect. The original law forbid Wheat for beer except for the rich. The law was designed to forbid wheat in beer in order to supply bakers with enough Wheat and Rye to feed the people. So, there was no exception ever made and the law has never been changed to include Wheat. Please do research on this matter. If you still feel I am wrong please provide a reliable source supporting your claim. I would be interested in passing that on to my students.

 

[Twinkeelfool]

Be interesting to know what percentage of German brewers still adhere to it.

 

[Beermeister32]

Once in a while I'll sneak about 4 oz of wheat into a Pilsner or Helles batch for lacing and head retention.... Just our little secret....

 

[Reneauj62]

Kolsch is an ale, not a lager. Use a german ale yeast if you can't source kolsch yeast.

Technically, it is a hybrid.... An ale yeast that is often fermented at lager temperatures and then laggered over time.

 

[Reneauj62]

Be interesting to know what percentage of German brewers still adhere to it.

If you are asking about how many people still adhere to the Purity Law. I would have to say quite a bit. When touring through Germany a few years ago I noticed a lot of breweries advertising the adherence of Reinheitsgobot as a selling point. The further away from Germany you get, the less people know about it and thus the less it is use.