Festbier Recipe Critique

[superiorsat]

I had a Spaten Festbier last year at a Hofbrau tent at a theme park. It was on the menu at an Oktoberfest but was light in color and delicious. Oddly we went back this year and it was still listed on the menu as an Oktoberfest beer but it was not the same beer. This year it was a Marzen but still delicious. Not sure what the deal is whit that. Both are worth a try if you could get your hands on them.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

My recent introduction to genuine Festbier was in Frankfurt, Germany. Went to a local Paulaner restaurant (in Old Town), and they had Festbier on the menu.

I was expecting an Oktoberfest style beer, the caramel colored sweet beer that is so prevalent in the USA.

Much to my surprise, the beer was golden, not much different from a standard Pilsner, but was a slightly higher gravity. This is the beer served at the Oktoberfest in Munich.

 

[monkeymath]

I'm currently at the Biergarten at Kloster Andechs. Decided to give their festbier "Spezial Hell" a try.

Jesus Christ is that beer overcarbonated. All I get is carbonic bite and then a little bit of malt after I swallow. Seriously, that'd be high even for a Weißbier or Saison. In a lager, I find it completely out of place.
Only the few last sips offer some light, bready malt and a touch of herbal hops. Quite disappointing imho.

Maybe it's a good thing they're not represented at the Oktoberfest

 

[rtstrider]

Heres the final product. Turned out really good!

 

[Beermeister32]

Yum

 

[bwible]

My recent introduction to genuine Festbier was in Frankfurt, Germany. Went to a local Paulaner restaurant (in Old Town), and they had Festbier on the menu.

I was expecting an Oktoberfest style beer, the caramel colored sweet beer that is so prevalent in the USA.

Much to my surprise, the beer was golden, not much different from a standard Pilsner, but was a slightly higher gravity. This is the beer served at the Oktoberfest in Munich.

And I’ve gotten the opposite, too. Bought something labelled Festbier that turned out to be the carmel colored sweet beer. Victory, for example, calls theirs Festbier. But at least theirs says Marzen right under that. With more stuff in cans so you can’t see the beer.

There doesn’t seem to be much standarization of the use of those words - Marzen and Festbier - at least here in the US. They seem to be used interchangably when they are not the same thing.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

And I’ve gotten the opposite, too. Bought something labelled Festbier that turned out to be the carmel colored sweet beer. Victory, for example, calls theirs Festbier. But at least theirs says Marzen right under that. With more stuff in cans so you can’t see the beer.

There doesn’t seem to be much standarization of the use of those words - Marzen and Festbier - at least here in the US. They seem to be used interchangably when they are not the same thing.

Did you buy this beer in Germany?
Marzen / Oktoberfest appears to be an invention of US brewers. Not really found in Germany, since 1990.

 

[bwible]

Did you buy this beer in Germany?
Marzen / Oktoberfest appears to be an invention of US brewers. Not really found in Germany, since 1990.

No - I’m in the US. I only dream of making it to Germany for Octoberfest one day

 

[Beermeister32]

Here’s a good explanation:

https://www.craftbeering.com/oktoberfest-vs-marzen-oktoberfest-style-beer/

 

[rtstrider]

Circling back around to this. After scouring the internet it seems the common theme for Festbier is to use a base of bohemian floor malted pils or German pils with a mix of German vienna and German munich. I'd like to dork around with the Weyermann bohemian floor malted pils for giggles, but, if it's not true to style there's not issue with going with regular Weyermann pils. I will not be decocting and will only be step mashing. Anywho how does this recipe look?

I took this idea from the Meanbrews vid here and made very minor adjustments





Title: 2024 Festbier

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Festbier
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 6.75 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.050
Efficiency: 71% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.057
Final Gravity: 1.012
ABV (standard): 5.84%
IBU (tinseth): 22.24
SRM (morey): 5.35
Mash pH: 5.86

FERMENTABLES:
8 lb - Floor-Malted Bohemian Pilsner (66.7%)
2 lb - BEST Munich (16.7%)
2 lb - BEST Vienna (16.7%)

HOPS:
0.35 oz - Magnum, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: First Wort, IBU: 19.9
0.5 oz - Hallertau Mittelfruh, Type: Pellet, AA: 3.75, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 2.34

YEAST:
Omega Yeast Labs - German Lager I OYL-106

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Strike, Start Temp: 162 F, Target Temp: 128 F, Time: 15 min, Amount: 5.4 gal
2) Temperature, Start Temp: 120 F, Target Temp: 144 F, Time: 40 min
3) Temperature, Start Temp: 144 F, Target Temp: 154 F, Time: 50 min
4) Temperature, Start Temp: 154 F, Target Temp: 168 F, Time: 10 min
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.8 qt/lb
Starting Grain Temp: 65 °F

 

[bwible]

Looks great. Tradition is also a great hop that alot of places use in Octoberfest.

 

[Beermeister32]

Looks delicious! Look at possibly doing a 90 minute boil on the Pilsner malt, also I think the 10 minute hops might be better at 20 minute, Not too many late hops on Festbier.

 

[rtstrider]

Looks delicious! Look at possibly doing a 90 minute boil on the Pilsner malt, also I think the 10 minute hops might be better at 20 minute, Not too many late hops on Festbier.

Do you think there will be a noticeable difference using floor malted pils instead of weyermann pils since I won't be decocting? I was just going to do a step mash

 

[Beermeister32]

I don't think so. I do step mashes myself. Looks like a great recipe, you will enjoy this one I think! Here's my Festbier recipe from a few years back, looks like I did 60 minutes on that one after all with the extract.. I'm sure I'll hear grief over the dextrose tweak. Also, here is my more recent Paulaner Festbier clone recipe. Enjoy!

 

[user 246304]

To be honest I really liked your original recipe. It was actually really close to mine - OG 1.055, slightly lower in using Munich (only; Best Pilsner at 83.3%, Munich at 16.7 %), IBU 21.5 so also a tad lower. Used all Hallertau Tradition, but I really love Tett and your hop bill looked great. Your finished beer looked top shelf. Here's mine (3-pint photo was easter, which was an all-german cooking day):

To me, your newer recipe seems too high in Mun./Vienna for a Festbier, which to me (and I am definitely not a lager expert, quite the opposite) tends to lighter and crisper by some measure when compared to Oktoberfests/Märzen - admitting no hard and fast rules.

This was a takeoff point for me:

5.7% abv, 23 IBU, pilsner and munich malts, though they used herkules and perle.

 

[hilljack13]

This was a takeoff point for me:

5.7% abv, 23 IBU, pilsner and munich malts, though they used herkules and perle.

View attachment 852835

YES! I still have some of these bottles I brought back from Stuttgart!

 

[Beermeister32]

To be honest I really liked your original recipe. It was actually really close to mine - OG 1.055, slightly lower in using Munich (only; Best Pilsner at 83.3%, Munich at 16.7 %), IBU 21.5 so also a tad lower. Used all Hallertau Tradition, but I really love Tett and your hop bill looked great. Your finished beer looked top shelf. Here's mine (3-pint photo was easter, which was an all-german cooking day):

View attachment 852832View attachment 852830View attachment 852833

To me, your newer recipe seems too high in Mun./Vienna for a Festbier, which to me (and I am definitely not a lager expert, quite the opposite) tends to lighter and crisper by some measure when compared to Oktoberfests/Märzen - admitting no hard and fast rules.

This was a takeoff point for me:

5.7% abv, 23 IBU, pilsner and munich malts, though they used herkules and perle.

View attachment 852835

Looks delicious!

 

[user 246304]

YES! I still have some of these bottles I brought back from Stuttgart!
View attachment 852838

Oh man, that is so cool!!!!!!! You and perhaps others might like the comments of a German friend of mine (translated from the German):

I have lived in the Stuttgart area since birth, Dinkelacker was (and is) an important regional brewery next to Stuttgart Hofbräu, Schwabenbräu and Wulle.

Dinkelacker, Schwabenbräu and Hofbräu have brewed different "festival beers", Christmas beer with more traditional spices and then lighter festival beers. All these also brew beers for the Spring Festival and Cannstatter Wasen (the biggest festival in Baden Württemberg and after the Munich Oktoberfest the most popular and largest folk festival. ), and give away their festival beers in large festival tents. These beers, like the one you show, are brewed for sublime lightness; they are given out in mass jugs (1,069 l). Festival beers produce a stable foam, (best come from the barrel) so that the beer arrives to the table with a significant and lasting head. They are designed to be able to drink several of them.

Dinkelacker has taken over the local rivals Woolle and Schwabenbräu one after another, as well as Sanwald and Cluss, whose beers and brands remained largely retained despite the takeover.

Meanwhile, the Spaten-Paulaner group is the majority owner. The quality has changed slightly to negative for my personal taste in the last 2 decades, but it's all obviously personal taste, i.e. subjective opinion.

The beer should absolutely be drunk with a crown, so it has a lasting, necessary head. Unlike how you're used to in the USA.
Not sure if I could answer your question in a way that makes you satisfied.

 

[user 246304]

Looks delicious!

Thanks man! It was - but doing it over and over again will be the test. Unlike yourself I am definitely not well versed in lagers. Even 30ish years ago, I brewed like 90% ales and it's been even more over time. When I brewed the Festbier my family had asked for a couple of lagers and drew lots - my son won, and he wanted the Festbier first, lol. A pilsner (wife's 1st choice) followed, both with (lucky) great results. I do love them, and brewing them, so I'll keep plugging away.

 

[dmtaylor]

Recipe looks great, @rtstrider . Personally I would skip any rest in the 120s F and just go straight up to 140s. Protein rests... don't do what people think they do. Instead of enhancing body and head retention, they can ruin it. Other than that, its all good.

 

[user 246304]

Recipe looks great, @rtstrider . Personally I would skip any rest in the 120s F and just go straight up to 140s. Protein rests... don't do what people think they do. Instead of enhancing body and head retention, they can ruin it. Other than that, its all good.

I'd have thought 33% vienna/munich would swing it more into Oktoberfest or Märzen land. As I understood it, Oktoberfest and Märzen would be considered close kin, traditionally served at Oktoberfest since the 19th century - richly malty, amber, not as crisp, not as highly hopped generally as Festbier. Festbier is also lighter. Festbier is what's served at Oktoberfest now, not the amber lagers. That´s my understanding anyway. I admit I may be totally wrong and would love to know.

"Oktoberfest" - modern Märzen. I think it's also what most US brewers lean to when they brew "Oktoberfest" beers:

Festbier - what's been served at Oktoberfest in Munich, I think, since the very early 2000's?:

Based on what my friend from Stuttgart said (see above), and from what I've been told by other German friends, this pretty massive and long-lasting head seems to be an important criterion for Festbiers, too.

Definitely want to keep working on this one. I absolutely loved the one I brewed.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

Your recipe looks good. A large yeast starter is key if you are going to do a traditional lagering fermentation v. warm/pressure fermentation.

Not sure you'll notice any difference in using floor malted v. their regular pils, with the large amount of Vienna and Munich.


I like to lager this beer for 60-90 days, so get it brewing to enjoy in September. Let us know how it comes out.

 

[dmtaylor]

I'd have thought 33% vienna/munich would swing it more into Oktoberfest or Märzen land. As I understood it, Oktoberfest and Märzen would be considered close kin, traditionally served at Oktoberfest since the 19th century - richly malty, amber, not as crisp, not as highly hopped generally as Festbier. Festbier is also lighter. Festbier is what's served at Oktoberfest now, not the amber lagers. That´s my understanding anyway. I admit I may be totally wrong and would love to know.

My calculations suggest 33% Vienna + Munich will give 5 SRM which is still a solid yellow color, perfect for a Festbier. This recipe won't go anywhere near Marzen territory.

"Floor malted" is a gimmick. You're going to get a very very similar beer regardless of floor vs. non-floor.

 

[user 246304]

My calculations suggest 33% Vienna + Munich will give 5 SRM which is still a solid yellow color, perfect for a Festbier. This recipe won't go anywhere near Marzen territory.

"Floor malted" is a gimmick. You're going to get a very very similar beer regardless of floor vs. non-floor.

Sorry, I stand corrected. Thanks.

 

[monkeymath]

"Floor malted" is a gimmick. You're going to get a very very similar beer regardless of floor vs. non-floor.

Eh, maybe. But I think the regular Pilsner malt from larger German maltsters like Best or Weyermann lacks depth. You can make a very "lean" Warsteiner-esque beer with, but for malt-forward styles I prefer something more flavourful.

For my last Kellerbier, I mixed Weyermann Floor Malted Bohemian in equal parts with Warminster Maris Otter, which produced a surprisingly good approximation of the grainy flavour found in some Franconian beers. A Festbier is much "cleaner", of course.

 

[rtstrider]

My calculations suggest 33% Vienna + Munich will give 5 SRM which is still a solid yellow color, perfect for a Festbier. This recipe won't go anywhere near Marzen territory.

"Floor malted" is a gimmick. You're going to get a very very similar beer regardless of floor vs. non-floor.

Welp if Floor malted is a gimmick then will just stick with Weyermann Pils Really eager to see how this turns out!