Yet another no signs of fermentation thread

[tj218]

Should have made a starter...but now what should I do? I'm used to dry yeast and quick take-offs. I know I will never order liquid yeast via mail during the summer again and I will make a starter from now on....

First time using liquid yeast (Wyeast 1728) and first time using a swamp cooler. The yeast was shipped from NB 7/2 arrived 7/9 obviously the ice pack was melted and the pack was warm and a bit inflated. Smacked the yeast pack as soon as it arrived as I was planning on brewing later in the day.

Waited 4 hours with little to no increase in inflation. Figured eh, what the hell I am sure it will work (RDWHAHB). Aerated the wort and then pitched into my Scottish 70 wort (1.04 OG) at 68 degrees and placed ferm bucket in swamp cooler (at 52F). After 18 hours I decided to bring up the temp of the swamp cooler to 62 to spur activity and I also rocked the fermentator a bit too rouse the yeast.

Now it's 40 hours after pitching and still no activity in the airlock or krausen in the bucket. The swamp cooler has remained at 62 for the last 22 hours. I have not opened the bucket to do a hydro reading but given the description of 1728, I think it's safe to assume nothing is happening.

What should I do?
1. Go to LHBS and pay 2x the price ($13/pack ) for another Wyeast?
2. Give it another 24 hours?
3. Call NB and ask about a refund on the yeast or to ship a new Wyeast?
4. Just pitch a S-05 (I really wanted the flavors of the 1728 though).

 

[FlyDoctor]

1&3. NB explicitly states they will replace bad yeast. Plus if you can find the right yeast locally, do it. If not go with the 05 as you can't wait for the NB shipment to repitch

 

[JLem]

#2 and take a gravity reading.

Fermentation can take up to 72 hours to get going, especially if you underpitch.

 

[progmac]

with your temps being on the lower end of the spectrum for an ale, fermentation will be a bit slower to take off. do nothing and check back with us tomorrow night.

 

[iambeer]

If you want to help things along, there's no harm in adding another pack of yeast unless you are going for under pitched flavors. You might as well go buy a pack even if you want to wait it out, just in case nothing is showing in 24 hours. Are you close to a homebrew shop? I wish I was, it would make my life easier. Since I'm not, I double up/test everything.

 

[pabloj13]

with your temps being on the lower end of the spectrum for an ale, fermentation will be a bit slower to take off. Do nothing and check back with us tomorrow night.

+1

 

[iambeer]

Waited 4 hours with little to no increase in inflation. Figured eh, what the hell I am sure it will work (RDWHAHB).

This is really the part that is saying to me; why not be ready and buy another pack just in case, or simply toss in another pack asap. I agree with other posters and the sticky that it can take time... but your gravity of 1.040 and temps in the 60's seems pretty nice for this yeast.

From the Wyeast site: Temperature Range: 55-75° F (13-24° C)

 

[tj218]

with your temps being on the lower end of the spectrum for an ale, fermentation will be a bit slower to take off. do nothing and check back with us tomorrow night.

Do I risk degradation of the final product by waiting so long?

If the wyeast wasn't so expensive at the LHBS I would get it. But $13 seems ridiculous, not to mention they don't move a lot inventory.

 

[iambeer]

Do I risk degradation of the final product by waiting so long?

If the wyeast wasn't so expensive at the LHBS I would get it. But $13 seems ridiculous, not to mention they don't move a lot inventory.

I wouldn't call it degradation. It's a matter of choice (when you are making a choice):

http://www.wyeastlab.com/com-pitch-rates.cfm
(Scroll to the bottom and read the last couple of paragraphs)

Effect of Pitch Rate on Beer Flavor

A low pitch rate can lead to:
Excess levels of diacetyl
Increase in higher/fusel alcohol formation
Increase in ester formation
Increase in volatile sulfur compounds
High terminal gravities
Stuck fermentations
Increased risk of infection


Best way to relax is to be sure; to be in control (at least a little). Or if you prefer, be passive and see what happens.

 

[krenshaw]

$13 for liquid.. jeez.. my LHBS only sells white labs and that is like $8 or so.. i would agree with some of the above to wait at least 24 hours just in case, then pitch a new on if still no signs. i don't believe you would risk anything waiting another day or so as long as everything was sanitized properly..

 

[iambeer]

Yes, $13 is highway robbery. Talk about a markup. I'd return the bad pack to them and demand an exchange. For that type of markup they should at least be helpful in that way, I would think.

 

[Yooper]

I never recommend this, normally, but I'd go ahead and let the wort warm up to 70 degrees or so to encourage yeast reproduction. You'd still be in the mid-range of the fermentation temperatures recommended by Wyeast, but yeast love warmer temperatures and so you'd encourage it to reproduce and get going.

 

[tj218]

46 Hours in, still nothing. I have not cracked the lid to do a hydro.

I contacted NB and they are expediting another yeast pack out, and it will arrive on Friday. Can my wort sit there till then? I would think as long I don't open the lid it should be ok, right?

Or do I need to dump?

 

[pabloj13]

46 Hours in, still nothing. I have not cracked the lid to do a hydro.

I contacted NB and they are expediting another yeast pack out, and it will arrive on Friday. Can my wort sit there till then? I would think as long I don't open the lid it should be ok, right?

Or do I need to dump?

If you haven't cracked the lid, how do you know you have nothing?

 

[H-ost]

46 Hours in, still nothing. I have not cracked the lid to do a hydro.

I contacted NB and they are expediting another yeast pack out, and it will arrive on Friday. Can my wort sit there till then? I would think as long I don't open the lid it should be ok, right?

Or do I need to dump?

It sounds like you are going solely by your airlock to determine if fermentation has begun, which is not recommended.

Yes it might not have started yet but right now you are guessing.

I used a pail last week for the first time since I started brewing and quickly realized why people can be unsure whether or not fermentation has started. I pitched and left the house for 3-4 days, when I came back the airlock was completely still and showed no signs of ever having bubbled. I opened the lid and to my surprise, a thick head of krausen!

Look before you leap. Then, if it hasn't begun, take the advice of some of the posters and get some back up yeast.

 

[SoonerDoc]

It sounds like you are going solely by your airlock to determine if fermentation has begun, which is not recommended.

Yes it might not have started yet but right now you are guessing.

I used a pail last week for the first time since I started brewing and quickly realized why people can be unsure whether or not fermentation has started. I pitched and left the house for 3-4 days, when I came back the airlock was completely still and showed no signs of ever having bubbled. I opened the lid and to my surprise, a thick head of krausen!

Look before you leap. Then, if it hasn't begun, take the advice of some of the posters and get some back up yeast.

+1

A bucket of mine has apparently grown a leak and now never shows signs of airlock activity. It happens when the buckets and lids wear out. Check your gravity, then you can worry.

 

[iambeer]

46 Hours in, still nothing. I have not cracked the lid to do a hydro.

I contacted NB and they are expediting another yeast pack out, and it will arrive on Friday. Can my wort sit there till then? I would think as long I don't open the lid it should be ok, right?

Or do I need to dump?

To me it sounds like you've done all you can do. If you don't see any sign of activity tomorrow morning, I would consider dropping the temperature as much as you can until Friday (afternoon? evening?). It would slow down all living things in the wort until you can add billions of healthy, viable yeast cells into it again. And whatever living yeast is still in the wort would still be there. But you know, I'm just basing this on whatever little bit I know about yeast so take my advice with a grain of salt. Def. agree with doing a gravity test.

 

[progmac]

LEAVE IT ALONE!!! I know it is hard, but if you sanitized well nothing is going to happen. I would have no problem waiting until Friday for the new yeast.

 

[tj218]

LEAVE IT ALONE!!! I know it is hard, but if you sanitized well nothing is going to happen. I would have no problem waiting until Friday for the new yeast.

Right now I am of this mind-set. I don't see any krausen when I have the flashlight up to it (which I usually do) and I don't see airlock activity. I've checked my seals multiple times.

While I guess there still could be some activity in there, I am guessing it's minimal. I'd rather not risk an infection by opening the bucket if I need to re-pitch on Friday.

As of tonight I will wait till the new yeast gets here and open the bucket then and just hope that in the meantime the wort stays infection free.

 

[tj218]

76 hours in, still no krausen or airlock activity. Concluding the yeast was toast on arrival. Dropped the temp to 58 till the new yeast gets here.

 

[progmac]

76 hours in, still no krausen or airlock activity. Concluding the yeast was toast on arrival. Dropped the temp to 58 till the new yeast gets here.

a good plan. sorry the yeast was a bust. i bet you are anxious to get that yeast packet from NB!

 

[tj218]

a good plan. sorry the yeast was a bust. i bet you are anxious to get that yeast packet from NB!

Definitely was. Got it at noon today. It was triple packed in ice, and although it was melted, that's pretty good for free from NB. macked the pack, and it really inflated in 2 and half hours. Hats off to their Customer Service.

Anyways, cracked the lid and the wort smelled & tasted sweet, no krausen. There was some white stuff on the top, but it looked more soap like, I am assuming/hoping it was just Star-San that got sucked in when I was removing the lid. Re-aerated the wort (shaking) and pitched at 58 F. A little cool, but the yeast is good from 55-75F. Now the waiting game.

Thanks for all advice, even if I didn't follow all of it.

 

[progmac]

pitching cold and allowing it to free rise into the 60s is a good thing. you should end up with a great beer. based on your description of the wort, sounds like you are good to go!

i usually see fermentation from a healthy smack pack within 24 hours

 

[logan3825]

Unless you did you really have no idea whether or not it fermented. Adding more yeast probably will not hurt anything but aerating the wort if fermentation has taken place may have. The white stuff on the top may have been the krausen.

 

[tj218]

Unless you did you really have no idea whether or not it fermented. Adding more yeast probably will not hurt anything but aerating the wort if fermentation has taken place may have. The white stuff on the top may have been the krausen.

It was only 3 three small streaks of it towards the center of the bucket where the airlock was located. I thought it still tasted like LME (was really sweet). But I guess your right, that could have been some krausen. I guess at this point I am banking on the belief that 1 week in transit at 90F+ outside temp. that killed the original batch of yeast. Now that I know how big a fresh smack pack can get, the original one never showed any signs of life.

At worst case, the way I see it, if it did ferment, it didn't get very far so I don't think aerating was that bad.

On the bright side, my first time using the swamp cooler has been great. I have been able to control temps between 56-64 depending on how long I let it sit w/o changing the ice. Every 8 hours seems to keep it at 60-61 (ambient 74-76).

 

[logan3825]

It may have partially fermented or not fermented at all. Impossible to say without a gravity reading. Aerating may or may not have done anything but after pitching yeast I would strongly advise against introducing oxygen.

 

[iambeer]

It was probably krausen, but I wouldn't worry at this point. You pulled through and did the best thing.

I'm willing to wager this beer is going to turn out great, and it's got a special history. ... Drink it during the next 6 months and you'll never notice any oxidation, if there's any actual potential of oxidation.

 

[CBXBob]

tj218, my take away from this thread is in your first paragraph, in the original post. I have used liquid, both smack pac's, and vials. Before getting educated here, had no clue I should do starters with liquid. Probably accounts for my less than stellar results using liquid yeasts, as opposed to good, very good, and great results with dry yeasts. I have been sticking with the dry's, but if ever consider a liquid because I am looking for a special flavor result, I will, a) not order online in the Summer. b) definitely make a starter. c) if ordering in Summer, order on Monday and d) mostly stay with the dry, and just re-hydrate.

 

[tj218]

It was probably krausen, but I wouldn't worry at this point. You pulled through and did the best thing.

I'm willing to wager this beer is going to turn out great, and it's got a special history. ... Drink it during the next 6 months and you'll never notice any oxidation, if there's any actual potential of oxidation.

Last night, 8 hours after re-pitching I got quite a bit of airlock activity which is still continuing this morning. Wahoo! I am not that worried about introducing oxygen, if I have an off flavor, I will nkow I did, but at least I will have beer