Yeast, yeast starters and stir plates for the newbie

[IslandLizard]

I have two stouts and a doppelbock with S-04 ready to be kegged.

So if I wash these yeasts, make a starter, should I only use them on like beer wort?

Reusing yeast from high gravity fermentations is not recommended, it's been stressed. Don't reuse yeast from beers 1.070 and up, as a guide. so harvesting from your Doppelbock is out, so are those from any RIS, Old Ales, Barleywines, Quads, etc.

You really don't need to 'wash' yeast (rinse, actually). You can pitch directly from the harvested cake, about 1/5 - 1/4 worth.

Don't repitch from very hoppy or very dark beers into much more subtle or lighter styles, generally. Now washing can remove a lot of color, hop debris, trub, etc. but you need to count on making a starter with whatever clean yeast was harvested that way, a lot of good yeast remains in the trub. I've successfully filtered trubby yeast through a piece of voile.

Needless to say, utter care with sanitation is mandatory or you'll grow infections along with the yeast.

 

[LittleRiver]

...So if I wash these yeasts, make a starter, should I only use them on like beer wort?

For beers that are similar there's no need to wash the yeast. Just collect it into sanitized glass jars and store it in your fridge. The yeast will settle to the bottom, beneath the beer. It will be fine for many months. To make a starter, put some of it (a tablespoon will usually do) in your starter wort, and put it on the stir plate for 2-3 days.

If you will be brewing soon after you have collected the yeast (within a few weeks), there's no need to do a starter at all, just pitch some of the saved slurry into the new batch of wort. I usually pitch about 4oz when doing that.

You can pitch a slurry from a light colored beer into a darker beer without worry of it affecting the color. For the reverse it makes sense to wash the yeast and make a starter. You'll also want to wash and make a starter if you feel the slurry may have a strong hop character you don't want to risk carrying over to your current batch.

 

[OpenSights]

Makes sense.

I brew so many different styles, not sure if keeping or bothering washing yeast will be worth it. Come cider season this will be worth it big time!

So what liquid yeasts be good replacements for US-05, S-04.... the ones I know?

 

[LittleRiver]

So if the dry yeasts I’m use to, mostly US-05, S-04, Nottingham, Premier Blanc... not good to make starters with....

Just to clarify, you can make a starter from any new yeast, dry or liquid (or from slurry saved from a brew made with either).

Making a starter from a fresh pack of dry or liquid yeast, pitching half of it, and saving half for next time will save you a lot of money over time and you will always have fresh "clean" yeast (yeast from slurry may carry over some color or flavor from the previous brew).

 

[RPh_Guy]

Not all yeast is the same and therefore not all yeast should be treated the same.

I recommend:
Hefeweizen yeast - No starter; underpitch.

Belgian yeast - Vitality starter*; underpitch.

Kveik - No starter; extreme underpitch optional.

Brett - Make starter at least a week beforehand. Do not aerate.

Lactobacillus (bacteria) - Buffered starter for several days, no aeration.

Low-oxygen brewing - Always pitch active yeast (not cold crashed).

What does a starter do? (Liquid yeast)
It increases cell count to reduce stress during fermentation. (Low starting cell count are much more likely to produce off-flavors.)
It lets you know the yeast is alive.
It can let you know if it's contaminated.
It gives you a preview of the yeast aroma.
It decreases lag time (possibly lowering the risk of contamination).

*Vitality starter: Add yeast to 500mL 1.036-1.040 sterile chilled wort and stir for 4 hours. Pitch the whole thing (it will be at high kräusen).

As mentioned, constant aeration produces a higher cell count. A stir plate is the best way to accomplish this.

Things to consider. Cheers!

 

[OpenSights]

Just to clarify, you can make a starter from any new yeast, dry or liquid (or from slurry saved from a brew made with either).

Making a starter from a fresh pack of dry or liquid yeast, pitching half of it, and saving half for next time will save you a lot of money over time and you will always have fresh "clean" yeast (yeast from slurry may carry over some color or flavor from the previous brew).

So making a starter from dry and keeping it going...

Also read today that the nutrients they use to dehydrate the yeast makes it basically a one time use yeast... but the context was regarding saving and washing from an initial ferment.

 

[OpenSights]

Not all yeast is the same and therefore not all yeast should be treated the same.

I recommend:
Hefeweizen yeast - No starter; underpitch.

Belgian yeast - Vitality starter*; underpitch.

Kveik - No starter; extreme underpitch optional.

Brett - Make starter at least a week beforehand. Do not aerate.

Lactobacillus (bacteria) - Buffered starter for several days, no aeration.

Low-oxygen brewing - Always pitch active yeast (not cold crashed).

What does a starter do? (Liquid yeast)
It increases cell count to reduce stress during fermentation. (Low starting cell count are much more likely to produce off-flavors.)
It lets you know the yeast is alive.
It can let you know if it's contaminated.
It gives you a preview of the yeast aroma.
It decreases lag time (possibly lowering the risk of contamination).

*Vitality starter: Add yeast to 500mL 1.036-1.040 sterile chilled wort and stir for 4 hours. Pitch the whole thing (it will be at high kräusen).

As mentioned, constant aeration produces a higher cell count. A stir plate is the best way to accomplish this.

Things to consider. Cheers!

Starting to get into sours, an odd turn for me as I don’t care for them, but at the same time about to exchange 5 gallons of doppelbock for 5 gallons of club sour.

 

[trevelynzx]

Just boil canning isn’t gonna cut it, it needs to reach higher temps.

What’s the concern with boil canning? That’s worked fine for me for dozens of gallons of starter wort.

 

[passedpawn]

What’s the concern with boil canning? That’s worked fine for me for dozens of gallons of starter wort.

You're creating a great environment for clostridium botulinum (and botulism). The spores live through 212F, and thrive afterwards in the neutral-pH sugary O2-free environment.

But I get it, it's worked so far for you, go for it.

 

[OpenSights]

What’s the concern with boil canning? That’s worked fine for me for dozens of gallons of starter wort.

This is one subject that I’m confused about.

Are the jars boiled to be sanitized? AFAIK boiling wort with yeast will kill yeast, or are we boiling and canning wort in advance to make a starter? The sound of this makes sense...

 

[OpenSights]

You're creating a great environment for clostridium botulinum (and botulism). The spores live through 212F, and thrive afterwards in the neutral-pH sugary O2-free environment.

But I get it, it's worked so far for you, go for it.

So the boil doesn’t kill everything?

Sorry, just trying to learn.

 

[mongoose33]

This is one subject that I’m confused about.

Are the jars boiled to be sanitized? AFAIK boiling wort with yeast will kill yeast, or are we boiling and canning wort in advance to make a starter? The sound of this makes sense...

Only foods that are acidic can be canned with boiling. Those which aren't need to be pressure canned at temps of 240 or more, which kills the spores that produce botulinum bacteria, which produce toxins that are, well, toxic.

Some have gotten away with just boiling, and they're lucky. We don't hear anymore from those for whom that didn't work.

 

[OpenSights]

Starting to get paranoid about my chiller!

 

[passedpawn]

We don't hear anymore from those for whom that didn't work.

RIP

 

[OpenSights]

So the safe practice of canning 1.03ish wort safely involves pressure canning. Doesn’t seem worthwhile.

Tomorrow is booked, but before the end of the week I’m going to experiment.

 

[trevelynzx]

RIP

lol okay hang on there. wouldn’t the presence of botulism unseal the canning jar lid while in storage? you guys are getting me paranoid.

 

[passedpawn]

lol okay hang on there. wouldn’t the presence of botulism unseal the canning jar lid while in storage? you guys are getting me paranoid.

I guess you mean it creates CO2 (or other gas) and pressure in container? No idea.

 

[trevelynzx]

Well thanks guys. Just read up on botulism and i’ll be throwing out all my starter wort, yeast, and 10gal of beer in the fermented i pitched last night with the starter. ridiculously sad, but better off alive!

thanks. i do sincerely mean it.

 

[cswant88]

https://www.cdc.gov/features/homecanning/index.html

You can decide if it’s worth the risk. Clostridium botulinum bateria are only killed at temperature around 240F. Boiling water at normal atmospheric pressures can not exceed 212F. Clostridium botulinum thrive in low acid, oxygen free environments and produce a neurotoxin that will KILL YOU. Do it right or don’t do it at all. Saving a little time making a yeast starter is not worth dying for.

 

[Jag75]

This is the canned wort starter I'm talking about.

 

[trevelynzx]

^ Ill go with that from now on...

 

[mongoose33]

So the safe practice of canning 1.03ish wort safely involves pressure canning. Doesn’t seem worthwhile.

Tomorrow is booked, but before the end of the week I’m going to experiment.

I tried it...and all it did was create very dark starter wort w/ some sort of orange-colored stuff. Like this pic below, and needless to say, I haven't ever used it to make a starter. I'm back to 100 grams DME in a liter of water.

 

[trevelynzx]

Goodbye delicious smelling Raging Irish Red. You did not deserve the driveway you’re now spread across. Better safe than sorry!

 

[mongoose33]

I'm waiting for the question as to why beer doesn't allow the bacteria that produces botulinum toxin.

Answer: it's acidic, more than the bacteria can handle.

 

[cswant88]

Northern brewer also sells a brand called fast pitch. I think it’s $12 for 4 cans. About the price of an energy drink.

 

[trevelynzx]

I'm waiting for the question as to why beer doesn't allow the bacteria that produces botulinum toxin.

Answer: it's acidic, more than the bacteria can handle.

Discovered that through my furious Googling. Sadly i just pitched my yeast (made from a boil-canned starter) 24 hrs ago. Down the drain it all goes.

 

[RPh_Guy]

FYI hops inhibit Clostridium spp.

 

[LittleRiver]

DME starters are easy to make. DME stores well, for long durations. DME starters are less expensive than the canned wort starters. It's DME for me.

 

[IslandLizard]

Goodbye delicious smelling Raging Irish Red. You did not deserve the driveway you’re now spread across. Better safe than sorry!

So sorry to hear it had to go that way. You could have spread it into grass, grass loves beer.

This is the canned wort starter I'm talking about.View attachment 628948

^ Ill go with that from now on...

Those cans are kinda pricey!

You can buy a pound of DME (sold in a 3 pound bag) for the price of one can. Or buy 2 pounds of DME at a bulk buy for roughly the same price.
Then make your own starter wort in a cooking pot with a well fitting lid, chill in sink, pour into flask, pitch yeast, and on the stir plate it goes. You don't have to stand there and wait for it to chill.

 

[Jag75]

So sorry to hear it had to go that way. You could have spread it into grass, grass loves beer.


Those cans are kinda pricey!

You can buy a pound of DME (sold in a 3 pound bag) for the price of one can. Or buy 2 pounds of DME at a bulk buy for roughly the same price.
Then make your own starter wort in a cooking pot with a well fitting lid, chill in sink, pour into flask, pitch yeast, and on the stir plate it goes. You don't have to stand there and wait for it to chill.

I guess it really depends on how much you brew . If your brewing all the time then yeah 3 bucks will add up . 3 dollars to me ain't bad , but I dont brew every other week.