Yeast Washing Illustrated

[DurtyChemist]

Cry Havoc wash I did yesterday. These are 1 quart jars. I will test attenuation on my next batch since there was no OG reading for this brew. Is the brown stuff dead yeast or trub?

Made a starter for one of these last week. Starter showed 65% attenuation in one day with an air lock and intermittent shaking. It's bubbling away currently and ill report back about its attenuation. 1.062 batch. So much for believing yeast had to be used in two weeks or a month.

If you taste the beer above the yeast you better sanitize your mouth or dump the yeast. You're introducing bacteria if you do this.

 

[BGBC]

If you taste the beer above the yeast you better sanitize your mouth or dump the yeast. You're introducing bacteria if you do this.

Um, or you could decant the beer, then taste it.

 

[lakedawgs]

That is actually what I was thinking, decant a bit and taste that. If the yeast/beer had been infected you would taste that, correct?

 

[BGBC]

I don't think it's guaranteed that you would taste something, but if it does taste off, don't use it.

 

[Brulosopher]

I don't think it's guaranteed that you would taste something, but if it does taste off, don't use it.

I guarantee you would taste autolyzed yeast, of that we're the case- burnt rubber aroma and taste.

 

[zeg]

I guarantee you would taste autolyzed yeast, of that we're the case- burnt rubber aroma and taste.

There are many problems you would easily taste. But that doesn't mean that *every* problem would be readily apparent. Properly rinsed yeast is mostly in a water suspension, so it's conceivable there's something latent that hasn't had the resources it needs to go funky.

But, this is brewing, and brewer's yeast are the Uruk-Hai of the yeast Middle Earth. They're bred to be vicious and efficient, they'll outcompete most competitors if you give them fair conditions. In the absence of evidence of an infection or a reason to think you've contaminated your starter, there's no practical reason to worry. It's possible something is lurking in the jar, but the risk is comparable to or less than the general risk of a beer going bad for all the various other reasons.

 

[jeffjm]

But, this is brewing, and brewer's yeast are the Uruk-Hai of the yeast Middle Earth.

Nerd quibble...the Uruk-Hai were on the losing side and I'd like my yeast to do better than the orcs ;-)

Good point though, the yeast will take care of a small number of random nasties on their own.

 

[zeg]

Nerd quibble...the Uruk-Hai were on the losing side and I'd like my yeast to do better than the orcs ;-)

Well, they do pretty well until Aragorn racks the beer off the top and pours 'em down the drain...

 

[Brulosopher]

There are many problems you would easily taste. But that doesn't mean that *every* problem would be readily apparent. Properly rinsed yeast is mostly in a water suspension, so it's conceivable there's something latent that hasn't had the resources it needs to go funky.

But, this is brewing, and brewer's yeast are the Uruk-Hai of the yeast Middle Earth. They're bred to be vicious and efficient, they'll outcompete most competitors if you give them fair conditions. In the absence of evidence of an infection or a reason to think you've contaminated your starter, there's no practical reason to worry. It's possible something is lurking in the jar, but the risk is comparable to or less than the general risk of a beer going bad for all the various other reasons.

Either way, I prefer to harvest from starters-- see signature

 

[h4mmy86]

Just revived a jar of 1272 from early November! 1.5 quart starter took off after about 12 hours. Pretty happy about this

 

[shaunvfx]

So something occurred to me, how about moving the harvesting to the beginning of the brew process instead of the cumbersome end? Afterall brewers gotta be planners to some degree.

My last brew had an expected og of 1.068, so I bought a vial of wlp002 and was going to do a starter.

I ended up doing a starter in a one gallon carboy I bought at the lhbs for like 5 bucks.

After putting it in the fridge for a few hours after it was done with peak fermentation, I poured off 2/3 of the starter beer into a large sanitized mason jar, then swirled and pitched half of the remains into the fermenter. The rest I poured into a few smaller mason jars equally and then topped off completely with the beer from the other big jar.

I basically made a starter twice the size that I needed and used half for harvesting which puts me back at the correct pitch into my wort.

This was so much easier than cleaning because of obvious reasons, I've got pure yeast in my jars that are brilliantly white, very neutral beer sitting on top, and I didn't have to dick around with a huge carboy to settle and pour.

I plan in doing this again with any new yeast and with the starters. It was so much easier for me.

Unless you are trying to get some characteristics from mutations of a full batch ferment, I think my method probably has a higher chance of preserving the original integrity of the yeast.

I'm interested in everyone's thoughts as I did this without researching so I'm not sure if I am using some faulty logic here.

 

[BGBC]

Yes that works too, others use a similar process as well.

 

[msa8967]

Recently I have had to do most of my kegging/bottling fo multiple batches on the same day. I have been washing more than one batch of the same yeast at a time and collecting the yeast from the second washing in large 1/2-1 gallon jars. After chilling these for several days I transfer the yeast to smaller jars but in the process I have to pour off the unwanted liquid and then shake the remaining contents to loosen up the remaining compacted yeast to pour into smaller jars. Is the shaking of these jars going to be bad for the yeast via adding some unwanted oxygen?

 

[zeg]

Is the shaking of these jars going to be bad for the yeast via adding some unwanted oxygen?

No. Oxygen is great for yeast, they love it. The problem is that they don't go down the fermentation pathway when O2 is available, so you end up with undesirable results in your beer. (Excess oxygen can also lead to off flavors if the yeast don't consume it before they conk out.) Having O2 around is only a problem post (or late in) fermentation.

 

[msa8967]

No. Oxygen is great for yeast, they love it. The problem is that they don't go down the fermentation pathway when O2 is available, so you end up with undesirable results in your beer. (Excess oxygen can also lead to off flavors if the yeast don't consume it before they conk out.) Having O2 around is only a problem post (or late in) fermentation.

The thanks for the info. I thought that boilling much of the oxygen from the water was ideal to help keep the yeast asleep. Thus, I was concerned that skaing the yeast slurry would create a problem.

 

[el_caro]

My understanding is that Oxygen is detrimental to yeast during the storage process. This certainly applies to dry yeast and I would have thought O2 in the water used to store the yeast would also be something to avoid.
I have gone down the path of boiling the distilled water which I store the rinsed yeast under.

 

[jeepinjeepin]

You don't want oxygen in your yeast storage water because they will try to stay active with little to no food available. Wears them down. They come out not worth a darn.

 

[Brulosopher]

So something occurred to me, how about moving the harvesting to the beginning of the brew process instead of the cumbersome end? Afterall brewers gotta be planners to some degree.

My last brew had an expected og of 1.068, so I bought a vial of wlp002 and was going to do a starter.

I ended up doing a starter in a one gallon carboy I bought at the lhbs for like 5 bucks.

After putting it in the fridge for a few hours after it was done with peak fermentation, I poured off 2/3 of the starter beer into a large sanitized mason jar, then swirled and pitched half of the remains into the fermenter. The rest I poured into a few smaller mason jars equally and then topped off completely with the beer from the other big jar.

I basically made a starter twice the size that I needed and used half for harvesting which puts me back at the correct pitch into my wort.

This was so much easier than cleaning because of obvious reasons, I've got pure yeast in my jars that are brilliantly white, very neutral beer sitting on top, and I didn't have to dick around with a huge carboy to settle and pour.

I plan in doing this again with any new yeast and with the starters. It was so much easier for me.

Unless you are trying to get some characteristics from mutations of a full batch ferment, I think my method probably has a higher chance of preserving the original integrity of the yeast.

I'm interested in everyone's thoughts as I did this without researching so I'm not sure if I am using some faulty logic here.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/entries/yeast-harvesting-novel-approach.html

You'll never go back

 

[zeg]

You don't want oxygen in your yeast storage water because they will try to stay active with little to no food available. Wears them down. They come out not worth a darn.

Yes. Sorry, I stand corrected. I was thinking about starters, not storage, when I wrote my message.

http://www.wyeastlab.com/com-yeast-storage.cfm

For rinsing, stirring up the yeast is a necessary step, so you have to live with the oxygenation. Starting with boiled water will minimize the oxygenation, and you'll benefit from the fact that sloshing water around is not a terribly effective way to aerate. Swirl as gently as you can, don't shake it up, and you'll be ok.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

I'm sure its been asked in the 100 something pages but anyone have any tips for doing this with the cake from stouts? It's hard to see the difference when things settle.

 

[msa8967]

Yes. Sorry, I stand corrected. I was thinking about starters, not storage, when I wrote my message.

http://www.wyeastlab.com/com-yeast-storage.cfm

For rinsing, stirring up the yeast is a necessary step, so you have to live with the oxygenation. Starting with boiled water will minimize the oxygenation, and you'll benefit from the fact that sloshing water around is not a terribly effective way to aerate. Swirl as gently as you can, don't shake it up, and you'll be ok.

I was thinking that keeping the yeast cold that their reproduction activity would be minimized.

 

[jonmohno]

So something occurred to me, how about moving the harvesting to the beginning of the brew process instead of the cumbersome end? Afterall brewers gotta be planners to some degree.

My last brew had an expected og of 1.068, so I bought a vial of wlp002 and was going to do a starter.

I ended up doing a starter in a one gallon carboy I bought at the lhbs for like 5 bucks.

After putting it in the fridge for a few hours after it was done with peak fermentation, I poured off 2/3 of the starter beer into a large sanitized mason jar, then swirled and pitched half of the remains into the fermenter. The rest I poured into a few smaller mason jars equally and then topped off completely with the beer from the other big jar.

I basically made a starter twice the size that I needed and used half for harvesting which puts me back at the correct pitch into my wort.

This was so much easier than cleaning because of obvious reasons, I've got pure yeast in my jars that are brilliantly white, very neutral beer sitting on top, and I didn't have to dick around with a huge carboy to settle and pour.

I plan in doing this again with any new yeast and with the starters. It was so much easier for me.

Unless you are trying to get some characteristics from mutations of a full batch ferment, I think my method probably has a higher chance of preserving the original integrity of the yeast.

I'm interested in everyone's thoughts as I did this without researching so I'm not sure if I am using some faulty logic here.

Thats usually what I do too. If I buy a vial I make a few batches out of it size depending how much I want to farm of it, by making a largeish starter origionally. Since I do 2.5 gallons it makes it easy to do a 1.5 liter and split it up between 3-4 vials/batches to store,then just make another small starter when I brew with it next batch.

I would recommend putting an airlock on it after a few days,let it ferment out maybe a few more then crash it in the fridge and decant and store in whatever you store it in, I like the wlp vials to reuse.

 

[zeg]

I was thinking that keeping the yeast cold that their reproduction activity would be minimized.

That should help a lot. I think you'd have to pretty seriously aerate them to ruin a rinsed batch, though. I've never seen any signs of life until I re-pitch them into a starter (though I've only re-pitched about a half dozen times, from two rinsings). If it were a delicate situation, I don't think many people would rinse successfully.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

I'm sure its been asked in the 100 something pages but anyone have any tips for doing this with the cake from stouts? It's hard to see the difference when things settle.

Well I figured out how to answer my own question and will share what I learned in the process. With darker beers it helps to do the washing on somewhat a bigger scale using more water. Adding more water dilutes the beer enough to be able to see the difference in trub from yeast. You have to use about double the water and more big jars but it worked better for me doing it this way.

 

[h4mmy86]

Well I figured out how to answer my own question and will share what I learned in the process. With darker beers it helps to do the washing on somewhat a bigger scale using more water. Adding more water dilutes the beer enough to be able to see the difference in trub from yeast. You have to use about double the water and more big jars but it worked better for me doing it this way.

I'll be washing from a stout tomorrow. Thanks for the tip!

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

I'll be washing from a stout tomorrow. Thanks for the tip!

Glad I could help.

 

[msa8967]

Well I figured out how to answer my own question and will share what I learned in the process. With darker beers it helps to do the washing on somewhat a bigger scale using more water. Adding more water dilutes the beer enough to be able to see the difference in trub from yeast. You have to use about double the water and more big jars but it worked better for me doing it this way.

When washing the yeast from stouts and porters I use twice the water and give it twice the time for each step compared to washing ales. I also use my auto-siphon to transfer the yeast water in each step.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

When washing the yeast from stouts and porters I use twice the water and give it twice the time for each step compared to washing ales. I also use my auto-siphon to transfer the yeast water in each step.

That's pretty much what I did except I used a turkey baster once I got it in jars.

 

[ultravista]

I used a washed jar of Pacman yesterday dated 05/22/12. I don't really wash, and re-wash as others do, just dump the contents from the carboy to a jar, then decant into another jar. There is always trub leftover.

The yeast layer from the 05/22 jar was just as white yesterday as it was last year.

I made a 1.6L starter and it took off within 12 hours; a fast and furious fermentation too.

I have another jar dated 05/22, we'll see how that looks down the road.

 

[mtnagel]

Cool. Good to know.