Yeast Washing Illustrated

[zeg]

If you have 1% viability you'd needs a multi-step starter. It all depends on the age/viability of the yeast and how much other crap is in there.

If it's very low viability, there's also the issue that you probably won't get the results you expect from the strain. By the time a significant fraction of the yeast have died, the characteristics of the survivors will be selected for "can survive a long time in a pint jar in the fridge," not, "makes good beer."

Also, you'd probably want to do a starter and decant just to separate the live yeast from the dead so that you don't pitch a ton of dead yeast into your beer.

 

[pabloj13]

If it's very low viability, there's also the issue that you probably won't get the results you expect from the strain. By the time a significant fraction of the yeast have died, the characteristics of the survivors will be selected for "can survive a long time in a pint jar in the fridge," not, "makes good beer."

Also, you'd probably want to do a starter and decant just to separate the live yeast from the dead so that you don't pitch a ton of dead yeast into your beer.

I'm not sure about either of those things. Especially the second, though. Dead yeast just serve as nutrients during the lag phase. In fact, a lot of people throw yeast in during the boil of high gravity brews to give yeast an extra boost.

 

[JonGrafto]

Ok. So I just had a question. I use a blowoff and a lot of the time I will end up with a layer of what looks like yeast that settles out in my bottle of blowoff starsan. Would this theoretically be usable? Or would you all suggest against it? Here is a picture for your viewing pleasure.

 

[h4mmy86]

I don't think it's typically suggested you use that yeast, from what I've read anyway...but it certainly does seem like it could be good. I always ponder the same thing in my blowoff container.

I mean if you could keep the blowoff sanitary I don't see why not.
...but I don't know how well yeast will rest dormant in starsan or any other sanitizer.

I bet that would be primo yeast if you could harvest it!

 

[Stove_Pipe]

Thanks to this thread, I can't imagine not washing my yeast after each batch. We spend a lot of money on highly specialized yeast strains, why would you want to throw them away? Especially when it is so easy to do.

Great thread!

 

[MirImage]

Think about this, if yeast can live in the sanitizer is it really killing off anything else like bacteria or wild yeast?

 

[jflongo]

Now Im thinking I should let it come to room temperature, pour off the tiny bit at the top, put this in 3 16oz jars, top off with distilled water, mix, and store in the fridge? Does that sound like a good plan.

 

[pabloj13]

Ok. So I just had a question. I use a blowoff and a lot of the time I will end up with a layer of what looks like yeast that settles out in my bottle of blowoff starsan. Would this theoretically be usable? Or would you all suggest against it? Here is a picture for your viewing pleasure.

Sure, but you want it to be in a closed container and into water instead of sanitizer. Check the link in my sig for yeast harvesting from the blowoff.

 

[zeg]

I'm not sure about either of those things. Especially the second, though. Dead yeast just serve as nutrients during the lag phase. In fact, a lot of people throw yeast in during the boil of high gravity brews to give yeast an extra boost.

It's widely recommended that you (e.g., the book "Yeast") not pitch yeast with < 90% viability. Selective pressure and general yeast health are among the reasons for this.

As for the latter, I realized last night that just decanting won't get rid of dead yeast, you'd need to do something else to manage that. As to whether it's a good idea, I don't think *pitching* intact, dead yeast is a good idea. Boiling it is different---that will denature proteins, etc, so it's more like adding nutrients. I don't know for certain that pitching dead yeast will cause problems, but I feel pretty confident saying it's not going to help you.

 

[jwalker1140]

Speaking of the book "Yeast," I really need to move it out of my Amazon wish list and into my cart. Does it recommend a rinsing approach similar to the one in this thread?

I'd also like to better understand what Jamil means by "slurry" on the 'Repitching from Slurry' tab on mrmalty.com. Anyone know if this is covered in the book? Based on his comments on Brew Strong, it seems like he does a less involved version of this thread's approach (i.e., a single rinse with less water), but I don't know if he considers that a "slurry" or something else.

 

[jflongo]

Speaking of the book "Yeast," I really need to move it out of my Amazon wish list and into my cart. Does it recommend a rinsing approach similar to the one in this thread?

I'd also like to better understand what Jamil means by "slurry" on the 'Repitching from Slurry' tab on mrmalty.com. Anyone know if this is covered in the book? Based on his comments on Brew Strong, it seems like he does a less involved version of this thread's approach (i.e., a single rinse with less water), but I don't know if he considers that a "slurry" or something else.

Slurry, from my understanding, is the thick and thin yeast mix areas. So you see how mrmalty has a slider 0 - 25%. So if it seems like a really clean slurry of yeast, you could put that towards 0. The yeast I have is a little mixed, so I put the slider towards 25%.

 

[pabloj13]

It's widely recommended that you (e.g., the book "Yeast") not pitch yeast with < 90% viability. Selective pressure and general yeast health are among the reasons for this.

As for the latter, I realized last night that just decanting won't get rid of dead yeast, you'd need to do something else to manage that. As to whether it's a good idea, I don't think *pitching* intact, dead yeast is a good idea. Boiling it is different---that will denature proteins, etc, so it's more like adding nutrients. I don't know for certain that pitching dead yeast will cause problems, but I feel pretty confident saying it's not going to help you.

I would never do that either, but you can certainly step it up in a starter.

 

[Jason541]

In order to use Mr Malty or YeastCalc, you need to start by figuring out how many viable cells you have. Ideally, you'd count them directly... but few of us have the capacity to do this.

Thanks for the breakdown Zeg! That actually makes a lot of sense and answers a lot of questions for me.

Jason

 

[zeg]

Speaking of the book "Yeast," I really need to move it out of my Amazon wish list and into my cart. Does it recommend a rinsing approach similar to the one in this thread?

I'd also like to better understand what Jamil means by "slurry" on the 'Repitching from Slurry' tab on mrmalty.com. Anyone know if this is covered in the book? Based on his comments on Brew Strong, it seems like he does a less involved version of this thread's approach (i.e., a single rinse with less water), but I don't know if he considers that a "slurry" or something else.

I don't own the book, but I've checked it out from the library a couple times. It discusses rinsing yeast, but doesn't go into much detail about the procedure. There's more detailed information in this thread. The biggest sections in that book cover yeast culturing and lab techniques, which are interesting, but not essential if you don't plan to start slanting or plating.

He does have a page or so about estimating the slurry density. Basically, a slurry is a suspension of the yeast solids in water (or wort or beer or whatever). His advice is to buy a White Labs yeast vial. The yeast in the bottom of that (assuming it is not shaken up yet) is around the 4.5 billion/mL density. Shake it up, and you now have that distributed in 40 mL (or so, I don't recall the exact number), so you know what a slurry of that dilution looks like. Dilute by a factor of two again, and now you know half that, etc.

The 0-25% is for an impure slurry---the White Labs is close to 0%, but he states that home-rinsed yeast will probably never have less than 10% non-yeast. If you can see any non-yeast, it's closer to 25%. (At least, I think that's how he puts it. This may also be in the MrMalty documentation.)

 

[hopmonster2189]

Practiced rinsing some Notty from the Secondary of a Graf tonight it went smoothly thanks to this thread!
I'm planning on rinsing some 1056 (currently in primary) for a nice stout or something heavy. Got a pyrex 2L erlenmeyer that helps a lot. would have been wasting money on yeast I already had so thanks to HBT once again.

 

[cpesko]

Do you actually even have to wash it I just pour the top layer off into a mason jar and sealed it in my fridge and it looks like your picture on the left now in my fridge can I repitch this?

 

[zeg]

Do you actually even have to wash it I just pour the top layer off into a mason jar and sealed it in my fridge and it looks like your picture on the left now in my fridge can I repitch this?

You don't have to do it, but rinsing will reduce the amount of trub. If you're brewing a similar or very strongly flavored beer, that may not be a problem. If you're brewing something different and lightly flavored, you may get some of the current beer transfered over.

 

[MMJfan]

I have to say thanks to this thread for introducing me to yeast washing! I've been washing the yeast from my last several batches and have been having success so far.

I've been enjoying a clone of Great Lakes Christmas Ale where I used Wyeast 1028 that I had washed from a batch of a Winter Red Ale and it could be the best beer I've made to date!

I also washed some Wyeast 1272 from a Black IPA I brewed and recently used it for clones of Ranger and Fat Tire (they're both still in primary so I've got a ways to go to see how they turn out). But they have both been fermenting away so far!

Next will be some Bells yeast that I harvested from some Bells Amber Ale. I used the harvested yeast for an Oberon clone and washed the yeast from that brew and I'm planning on using the washed yeast for a Bells Two Hearted clone and a Bells Best Brown clone.

 

[Battles4Seattle]

Then when it's time to make a starter, you just pull one out, let it warm to room temp, and decant most of the liquid out of the jar, give the rest a good shake, and pitch it into your starter.

You are using 1 of the small mason jars for the starter, correct? Just confused about the give the rest a good shake, and pitch.

Excellent write up and thank you. :rockin:

 

[MMJfan]

You are using 1 of the small mason jars for the starter, correct? Just confused about the give the rest a good shake, and pitch.

Excellent write up and thank you. :rockin:

I'm not Bernie Brewer, but to answer your question, I use one mason jar per starter and have had no problems. I think what he means in, 'give the rest a good shake' is that you shake the remaining liquid in your jar after you decant it. Personally, I just shake the whole jar and dump it all into my starter without decanting...

 

[zeg]

If you're being careful/precise, whether you use one or two jars also depends on how many cells you need and what your starter method will be.

I think the OP just uses one per starter and knows from experience that it gives enough yeast. At least, that's what I took away from it.

 

[jb3218]

Not sure if this question has already been asked but here goes. Can't I just make a large starter from a "fresh" vial of yeast and pour some into a couple of jars for future use instead of washing the yeast?

 

[zeg]

Yes, you can do that, and it's apparently very effective. It leaves less trub than rinsing from a batch of beer.

The only problem is that if you only have capacity for a single batch at a time, you will have the rinsed yeast sitting around for a while. People (including me) have had no problems using rinsed yeast that's been stored for a month or significantly more, but the published experts generally advise reusing rinsed yeast within a week or so for the best results. It's worth knowing that advice, but I think it's probably too conservative for homebrewing purposes---if you're trying to reproduce the same beer exactly, it may be a problem.

 

[jb3218]

Yes, you can do that, and it's apparently very effective. It leaves less trub than rinsing from a batch of beer.

The only problem is that if you only have capacity for a single batch at a time, you will have the rinsed yeast sitting around for a while. People (including me) have had no problems using rinsed yeast that's been stored for a month or significantly more, but the published experts generally advise reusing rinsed yeast within a week or so for the best results. It's worth knowing that advice, but I think it's probably too conservative for homebrewing purposes---if you're trying to reproduce the same beer exactly, it may be a problem.

That's what I thought. Maybe I'll make a starter and step it up a couple of times and then pour into several 1/2 pint jars. Thanks!

 

[tg123]

I just bottled my beer and put some boiled water and jars in the fridge. Would it be ok if I leave the yeast in the carboy and trasnfer/wash the tomorrow since it's almost 2am now? there's still a little bit of beer left. It seems to be bubbling still so I assume it'll be fine.
Thanks!

 

[HollisBT]

I just bottled my beer and put some boiled water and jars in the fridge. Would it be ok if I leave the yeast in the carboy and trasnfer/wash the tomorrow since it's almost 2am now? there's still a little bit of beer left. It seems to be bubbling still so I assume it'll be fine.
Thanks!

Should be good as long as you trust your sanitation practices.

 

[tg123]

Should be good as long as you trust your sanitation practices.

Thx for the confirmation.
One more question, do I just poor the water into the carboy cold on leaving it come up to room temperature first? Thanks

 

[HollisBT]

Thx for the confirmation.
One more question, do I just poor the water into the carboy cold on leaving it come up to room temperature first? Thanks

Use room temp water, the Same temperature as the yeast cake that you are washing. Any big temp differences could shock the yeast and mess up your wash or even worse, change he characteristics of your yeast.

 

[tg123]

Use room temp water, the Same temperature as the yeast cake that you are washing. Any big temp differences could shock the yeast and mess up your wash or even worse, change he characteristics of your yeast.

Shocking the yeast was what I was concerned about. Thanks Hollis.

 

[jwalker1140]

Use room temp water, the Same temperature as the yeast cake that you are washing. Any big temp differences could shock the yeast and mess up your wash or even worse, change he characteristics of your yeast.

Interesting. I know big temp differences can cause yeast to floc out during ferment and other nasty things but I've never heard it could be harmful while washing. The OP puts his water jars into the fridge after they've been boiled, and judging from the first pic in post #2, it looks like they're still cold just before he uses them. I'm surprised he didn't mention to allow the jars to warm up before using. (Or maybe he did and I missed it somewhere.)