How am I supposed to clean glass carboys?

[Deadalus]

fwiw, I have been using 6.5 gallon smooth side Italian carboys for over 20 years now. I have six of them. I treat them like they're grenades.
You will never see me put anything inside or outside that is more than 5°F above or below the current glass temperature. Ever.

That includes rinsing them out after kegging, when the glass is still thoroughly chilled from cold-crashing. Putting even "room temperature water" in at that time would be a ~30°F thermal shock, and accumulating that type of thermal stress is exactly what leads to the thick bottom cleanly separating from the thin sidewall.

Don't do that.

Cheers!

The 5 is not a typo?

Please explain how you managed that <5F differential between the current glass temperature and the water over the last 20 years. In particular I am curious how you blended cold and hot tap water to +/-5 room temperature while having a ~98F body temp for reference.

I am also curious about how you kept the glass within 5F for wort transfer of both ales and lagers.

Even if you did have actual temperature readings, you are only proving that you were overly stringent because none broke.

I doubt I often washed a carboy straight out of the fermentation fridge with hot water. I would have transferred first, then got the beer bottled or kegged. But I sure as heck have washed a carboy in the winter that was either in my unheated basement (~55F) or worse the garage (close to freezing).

Twelve is a fair estimate of the number of carboys I've owned. I think I've broke 4-5. I have brewed during 2 periods, 96-03, 2018+. I had 3 from period 1 make it to period 2. Once in the car, once putting one down, unpacking one once (so mad, slight slip), and one got a small spidercrack in the side, I don't remember hitting it but occasionally I bump them in storage. At one point I had a total of nine but gave away several and only have 5 currently.

I'm not saying one can't thermally shock glass, but how many instances can you find where the bottom separates without impact vs how many carboys have been produced and used.

 

[homebeerbrewer]

fwiw, I have been using 6.5 gallon smooth side Italian carboys for over 20 years now. I have six of them. I treat them like they're grenades.
You will never see me put anything inside or outside that is more than 5°F above or below the current glass temperature. Ever.

That includes rinsing them out after kegging, when the glass is still thoroughly chilled from cold-crashing. Putting even "room temperature water" in at that time would be a ~30°F thermal shock, and accumulating that type of thermal stress is exactly what leads to the thick bottom cleanly separating from the thin sidewall.

Don't do that.

Cheers!

Well, some people won't learn until it happens to them. Hopefully, its not fatal when it happens

 

[v2comp]

150F water and Oxyclean. Let sit till next day, everything organic will just fall off. Super simple. Rinse well and sanitize after.

 

[v2comp]

The 5 is not a typo?

Please explain how you managed that <5F differential between the current glass temperature and the water over the last 20 years. In particular I am curious how you blended cold and hot tap water to +/-5 room temperature while having a ~98F body temp for reference.

I am also curious about how you kept the glass within 5F for wort transfer of both ales and lagers.

Even if you did have actual temperature readings, you are only proving that you were overly stringent because none broke.

I doubt I often washed a carboy straight out of the fermentation fridge with hot water. I would have transferred first, then got the beer bottled or kegged. But I sure as heck have washed a carboy in the winter that was either in my unheated basement (~55F) or worse the garage (close to freezing).

Twelve is a fair estimate of the number of carboys I've owned. I think I've broke 4-5. I have brewed during 2 periods, 96-03, 2018+. I had 3 from period 1 make it to period 2. Once in the car, once putting one down, unpacking one once (so mad, slight slip), and one got a small spidercrack in the side, I don't remember hitting it but occasionally I bump them in storage. At one point I had a total of nine but gave away several and only have 5 currently.

I'm not saying one can't thermally shock glass, but how many instances can you find where the bottom separates without impact vs how many carboys have been produced and used.

Ive owned exactly 8 carboys, broke one by allowing the bottom corner of one to tap a concrete floor and it hit an small (1/4") rock. Split in half basically. No injuries. The only other one to break was when my 13 year old son was running through the house with his skateboard in his hand, accidentally let a truck bounce off the side of a full one and I just happened to hear it crack. Grabbed and sanitized a autosiphon and another carboy, and manually racked about 4.5 gallons of a little over 5 gallons out before the cracked one broke apart spilling a little beer on the kitchen floor. That turned out to be a bad day for both of us.

 

[Deadalus]

Well, some people won't learn until it happens to them. Hopefully, its not fatal when it happens

And there have been how many carboy fatalities over the years? Then we can establish an actual risk of death and put that risk into proper perspective.

 

[mac_1103]

Life carries a 100% risk of death. So far, anyway.

 

[homebeerbrewer]

I don’t know how many fatalities there are, but I’m sure there are some. I don’t think someone will post about it here if it happens to them, so we may never know.

 

[Deadalus]

I don’t know how many fatalities there are, but I’m sure there are some. I don’t think someone will post about it here if it happens to them, so we may never know.

Your surety is misplaced if you can't find any and the fear mongering about dying from washing these hot is completely unnecessary given your lack of evidence. What really needs to be "learned" here is risk assessment on your part.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

please stop.

Historically, in these "type" of "debates", neither "side" "wins" and ....

... HomeBrewTalk discussion in other threads suffers.

Sometimes the discussion in other topics returns to the previous level.

Recently, most times it doesn't return to that previous level.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

And, BTW, with regard to OP:

so about a month ago.

 

[Deadalus]

please stop.

Historically, in these "type" of "debates", neither "side" "wins" and ....

... HomeBrewTalk discussion in other threads suffers.

Sometimes the discussion in other topics returns to the previous level.

Recently, most times it doesn't return to that previous level.

What would be nice is for posters to ignore the word carboy when people ask for specific advice about using carboys and not keep directing people to the gruesome thread about injuries. I get what you are saying about this spiraling out. When you search information on carboys, the AIs gather information from that thread like its gospel. Also repeated out on Reddit. Don't play the both sides card here. I didn't make the extraordinary claim that people are dying from thermally shocked carboys. I don't claim they are 100% safe. They are large glass objects that may cut you. When questions are asked about carboys, I answer with my real world experience using them so that if someone wants to use one they can make an informed decision, as do others. But then the don't use carboys posters chime in and the requestor has to wade through all the don't use carboys at all posts.

The information in a thread isn't solely for the OP and may also continue to evolve and be referenced later. Claiming the person did not log back in doesn't mean anything, they may also read as a guest. They may come back later too.

You are welcome to ignore the thread or me.

 

[homebeerbrewer]

Ok. My last post on this thread. KopperKat is right, I’m not gonna change your mind. You’re not gonna change my mine.

I suffered a severe injury because of a broken carboy. I chimed in with my experience, hoping to prevent someone else from doing the same. But you do you. Good luck.

 

[Deadalus]

fwiw, I have been using 6.5 gallon smooth side Italian carboys for over 20 years now. I have six of them. I treat them like they're grenades.
You will never see me put anything inside or outside that is more than 5°F above or below the current glass temperature. Ever.

That includes rinsing them out after kegging, when the glass is still thoroughly chilled from cold-crashing. Putting even "room temperature water" in at that time would be a ~30°F thermal shock, and accumulating that type of thermal stress is exactly what leads to the thick bottom cleanly separating from the thin sidewall.

Don't do that.

Cheers!

I was sincere and respectful when I responded to your accounting of your injury and at every point after you implied something bad was going to happen, that I basically would FAFO and possibly die. "Best of luck with that" "some people won't learn until it happens to them". You getting injured, and again, I'm sorry that happened to you, that doesn't make you an expert. I asked you to back up what you were saying about fatalities to better understand if perhaps I was off in deciding the risks involved. I even investigated it personally before I posted. You apparently couldn't be bothered and made stuff up! How many cases of thermal shock can you tally where someone was injured or even not? I read through the injuries thread some time ago, but most that I read were bumps, slips, falls, and impacts. I'm a scientist, if I make a claim in writing, I will back it up as best I can and I have no problem reporting that a hypothesis was unsupported. My own history of carboy use, conducted over 14-15 years, while lengthy, would be called repeated measures but on one subject. That's effectively an anecdote. Your one time bottom falling out, while serious injurous, also an anecdote. Also the millions of people that have been using these glass carboys for well over a hundred years and washing them out afterwards, also anecdotes. I don't see a bunch of anecdotes about the bottoms falling out from thermal shock and all the ensuing injuries.

You implying that I am going to get injured or die because I'm not smart enough to understand risk? That's condescending, I am thoughtful and considerate when it comes to safety. First off, I have all my fingers and toes and they are all operational. I am not a young person either. I own and operate many power tools including table saws, sawzalls, right angle drills, a miter saw, lawnmower, weedeater. I burn wood in the winter. I am EXCEPTIONALLY careful doing so even though a freak failure in my chimney nearly burnt down my house. The chimney was rebuilt properly. I understand the risk of burning wood in the home. My home is fully covered with fire detectors, CO monitors, and fire extinguishers. I get yearly chimney sweeps and inspections. I don't however bring up the chimney defect if someone asks me whether oak is good firewood. I own a chainsaw too, now that is a dangerous tool, whether bucking or felling. I am well trained to use it properly and always do so. You can severe an artery and kill yourself or crush and kill you or someone else using it. But all this hype about carboys, sorry, not even close! I've got a logsplitter, 27-28 ton and maul. The maul can get you too, be mindful of your swing. Proper risk assessment, which definitely includes data to back up your assertions, is important when using something dangerous to avoid accidents. But just because something is dangerous, doesn't mean you simply don't use it.

 

[IslandLizard]

[...] But just because something is dangerous, doesn't mean you simply don't use it.

Most people either know, or have enough sense when they are using or are around power tools, heavy machinery, cutting, smashing, demolition tools, etc. to stay well clear of them.

The dangers of handling larger size glass carboys (3-6 gallons or even larger) are two-fold:
A. Their dangers are underestimated, they look quite thick, solid, and robust. But when they crack/break the large and relatively heavy shards have extremely sharp edges, that can cause severe injuries, even life-threatening ones.

B. Traditionally, many (most?) carboys used to be manufactured in Italy and Mexico, sometimes having the country of origin molded into the bottom, but not always. Those were proven to be quite solid and alright, unless dropped or suffering some other mishap.
Then around 2014 (est.) glass carboys from China (and India?) started flooding the market. These were mostly carboys with the classic "ribs" on the outside. Those carried no markings of their origin, while poor manufacturing and lack of quality control standards made them extremely unsafe to handle. People reported areas in the glass that were as thin as 1/16 of an inch!
Imagine having 5 gallons (42 pounds!) of beer in one of those, while lifting it up with bare hands...

 

[homebeerbrewer]

I said my last post was my last, but I was wrong. This one is.

I never said to not use carboys. I said don't use hot water to clean them.

 

[WouldBeBrewmaster]

Run an alkaline cleaner through this guy. Also great to have if you keg for cleaning kegs, and you can use the pump for line cleaning. https://a.co/d/6xh8Xzp

 

[MaxStout]

This is like anything else that has the potential of hurting you if you're not careful. Electricity can shock/burn/kill, hot wort can scald, over-carbed bottles can burst, etc. You just have to decide if a certain risk is worth it. The penalty for being careless can range from "oops, I made a mess!" to serious bleeding. It's one more thing to treat with respect.

I used to use glass carboys exclusively. I took some risks with them, not fully appreciating the dangers. Like pouring 120F tap water and PBW straight into a room-temp carboy. Luckily, nothing happened. I suppose it's possible to reduce the risk of thermal shock by warming it up incrementally. Pour in some slightly warmer water, swirl it around, dump, add warmer water, swirl, dump, and so on until it's close to hot wash temp.

I switched to stainless several years ago, though I do miss watching fermentation.

I do still have a couple 3 gallon Italian carboys I use occasionally for small batches of things like cider. They are easier to manage than the big ones, though the risk of breakage is still there.

 

[Deadalus]

Most people either know, or have enough sense when they are using or are around power tools, heavy machinery, cutting, smashing, demolition tools, etc. to stay well clear of them.

The dangers of handling larger size glass carboys (3-6 gallons or even larger) are two-fold:
A. Their dangers are underestimated, they look quite thick, solid, and robust. But when they crack/break the large and relatively heavy shards have extremely sharp edges, that can cause severe injuries, even life-threatening ones.

B. Traditionally, many (most?) carboys used to be manufactured in Italy and Mexico, sometimes having the country of origin molded into the bottom, but not always. Those were proven to be quite solid and alright, unless dropped or suffering some other mishap.
Then around 2014 (est.) glass carboys from China (and India?) started flooding the market. These were mostly carboys with the classic "ribs" on the outside. Those carried no markings of their origin, while poor manufacturing and lack of quality control standards made them extremely unsafe to handle. People reported areas in the glass that were as thin as 1/16 of an inch!
Imagine having 5 gallons (42 pounds!) of beer in one of those, while lifting it up with bare hands...

Your premise is overly restrictive. The vast majority of people in the developed world have used a drinking glass and aware that glass breaks and will cut you. A significant majority of those people will have handled a large glass object at some point in their life, such as a lamp, a ceiling lamp covering, a window, a mirror, a glass jar, etc. Supposing no though. If you were to hand someone a glass carboy, "Can you hold this Glass jug please?", with capital G simply making sure you have communicated the object is glass, their brain will recognize that they may get cut. Because they have seen or broken a glass and been cut by glass. Humans are hard-wired for danger, little children are taught that glass is dangerous. It's a milestone. "Oohh look at you drinking out of the Big Boy/Big Girl glass".

So regarding A&B, it's over-the-top. Much like any number of lacerations you might bleed out and die but here no one has an actual case of that happening. "A glass carboy is like regular glass which can break and cut you, sometimes causing severe lacerations requiring immediate medical attention. A full carboy can weigh as much as 55, 60lbs(?). It is strongly suggested to use an assistive device or helper when moving." But yes we are adults and know that it's glass and you get what you pay for when buying glass. The ad nauseum warnings, especially the overblown suggestion of death and lack of quantification of any sort for other severe risks are excessive. There are people that will avoid mentioning using a carboy because it's been stigmatized and they know it's going to derail the thread or they will have justify why they are using a glass carboy. It's nearly impossible to have a conversation about simple questions among carboy users. Do we go on and on about electricity and pressure, linking to pictures of electrical burns or oxygen explosions? Not that I've seen.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

There were 40,901 car fatalities in 2023.
There were 42,721 car fatalities in 2023.

How many of you are giving up your car?

 

[MaxStout]

There were 40,901 car fatalities in 2023.
There were 42,721 car fatalities in 2023.

How many of you are giving up your car?

How much time do you spend in your car every year?
How much time do you spend dealing with carboys every year?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

might be time to bring in the memes in an attempt to totally derail this topic ...

There were 40,901 car fatalities in 2023.
There were 42,721 car fatalities in 2023.

How much time do you spend in your car every year?

Too much.

How much time do you spend dealing with carboys every year?

Not enough.

 

[markrussell]

Thanks for the heads-up! I really appreciate what this community offers and understand the need for support. I’ll definitely consider becoming a Supporting Member to help keep it going strong.