Yeast Washing Illustrated

[cd2448]

i've been using dry yeasts up to now so haven't really bothered to do this, but this weekend i started a batch with wyeast weihenstephan hefeweizen yeast so i thought i'd read up on how to wash it after fermentation.

then i thought - hang on, is this going to work with hefeweizen yeast if it stays in suspension in the beer and gets transfered to the bottling bucket instead of being left in the primary? or is there enough yeast in the trub to make it viable?

 

[explosivebeer]

I've now harvested a few batches of yeast using this method. I just went to pitch a 2nd-generation British Ale Yeast (WLP005 I think) that I harvested two or three months ago and as I opened the bottle to pour out the excess liquid off the top, it started foaming like crazy and eventually spewed about 3/4ths of the contents into the sink. I pitched the rest onto three gallons of cooled wort but have yet to see any activity after about 20 hours.

Were there more fermentables in the trub that I washed when I harvested it, giving the yeast better access to them and a little oxygen boost to work with? Or did my yeast somehow get contaminated?

Thanks for any info/advice you may have.

 

[oguss0311]

Does anyone know what might have happened with Explosivebeers yeast? I too would like to know. The only thing that I can think of is that the beer he had was not done fermenting (or as he suspects- came into contact with more sugar).....

ExplosiveBeer- How did things ultimately turn out? Did you use mason jars or something else? (Mason jars are capable of letting overpressure out- so long as they are not too tight)

 

[explosivebeer]

Does anyone know what might have happened with Explosivebeers yeast? I too would like to know. The only thing that I can think of is that the beer he had was not done fermenting (or as he suspects- came into contact with more sugar).....

ExplosiveBeer- How did things ultimately turn out? Did you use mason jars or something else? (Mason jars are capable of letting overpressure out- so long as they are not too tight)

There was still no fermentation so I opened another bottle of yeast from the same batch and the same thing happened. I dumped it in anyway but to no avail. After a couple of days so I pitched some Nottingham and it took off like normal.

I have been using sterilized 12 oz beer bottles for yeast storage, getting about five good bottles per five-gallon yeast harvest, with about four ounces of yeast after it settles out in each bottle.

I know my first harvest is good yeast but apparently something went wrong with this batch. I'm just not sure what, or how it'll affect my current batch, if at all.

 

[SuperiorBrew]

Did you use sterilized water to add to wash it with? If so you may need to use more or wash it twice next time. You don't want bottle bombs in your fridge. Cap them with tinfoil for a few days and if you don't open up the fridge to a mess on day they should be good to cap.

 

[explosivebeer]

Did you use sterilized water to add to wash it with? If so you may need to use more or wash it twice next time. You don't want bottle bombs in your fridge. Cap them with tinfoil for a few days and if you don't open up the fridge to a mess on day they should be good to cap.

Yeah I boiled all the water and bottles, cooled them, and then used them to wash and store the yeast. I may just have to chalk this batch up to inexperience and try again. I like your tin foil idea as a safety precaution. For now, I'll probably find a fun way to detonate the remaining bottles.

 

[wedge421]

Ive got to throw my question into the mix. The process is crystal clear thanks for all the pics and explanations!!! My question is that if I used say a Wyeast Liquid starter slap pack for a 5gallon extract batch. Once I clean that yeast how many 5 gallon batches will I get out of that cleaned yeast that were harvested from the extract?

 

[oguss0311]

From what I understand- you can use each bottle to create a starter- and put the starter into the wort once it's bigger and all that. I think that the benefit if the starter is to increase the size and activity of the colony that you have in hibernation from the previous batch. And from what we saw- I guess its about four cans per batch.....
I suppose the guru's will elaborate...............

 

[Kayos]

Ive got to throw my question into the mix. The process is crystal clear thanks for all the pics and explanations!!! My question is that if I used say a Wyeast Liquid starter slap pack for a 5gallon extract batch. Once I clean that yeast how many 5 gallon batches will I get out of that cleaned yeast that were harvested from the extract?

Minimum 5.

 

[wedge421]

So from one 5 gallon bath you will be able to harvest enough yeast to produce 25 gallons minimum.?

Minimum 5.

 

[oguss0311]

Shoot- than I've got another question-
What is the longest that anyone has let washed yeast stay in the fridge and still use it successfully? (The amount of time that I would take to go back to the same strand of yeast 5 times has got to be..........Shoot....maybe over a year!)

 

[Bernie Brewer]

I read somewhere that you should only propagate yeast for four generations. Don't jump on me here, I know some people pay no attention to that, but it's what I read.

Ok, let's say you buy a pack of yeast and make a batch of beer. That's one generation. You wash your yeast and collect four jars of yeast. You could do more, or less, I'm just using four as an example. You make four starters and four batches of beer out of those four jars. That's generation 2. You wash your yeast from the last jar and collect four more jars/batches. That's generation 3. Add four more for generation 4 and you have a total of thirteen batches of beer from the original pack. So that's potentially 65 gallon of beer from one pack of yeast. Or 130 gallons if you're like me and brew mainly ten gallon batches. Of course that's assuming you brew with all those saved yeasts before they go bad; they don't last forever.

 

[explosivebeer]

I've heard you can use the yeast for eight or nine generations is you are doing a good job of harvesting it. Realistically, I'll probably only do about four generations of harvests and then start over to make sure I'm still working with good yeast. That'll still yield about 21 batches (one to start, and five for each generation, harvesting the last of each generation).

Then again, one of my harvests has already turned out poorly so expectations may have to be lowered.

As for how long it'll keep in the fridge, I don't know. But if you brew enough, it won't matter! :cross:

 

[Moonpile]

I read somewhere that you should only propagate yeast for four generations. Don't jump on me here, I know some people pay no attention to that, but it's what I read.

Ok, let's say you buy a pack of yeast and make a batch of beer. That's one generation. You wash your yeast and collect four jars of yeast. You could do more, or less, I'm just using four as an example. You make four starters and four batches of beer out of those four jars. That's generation 2. You wash your yeast from the last jar and collect four more jars/batches. That's generation 3. Add four more for generation 4 and you have a total of thirteen batches of beer from the original pack. So that's potentially 65 gallon of beer from one pack of yeast. Or 130 gallons if you're like me and brew mainly ten gallon batches. Of course that's assuming you brew with all those saved yeasts before they go bad; they don't last forever.

I'm not an expert on this (never having done it), but I would take the four generations rule to mean that you'd buy yeast (your first generation) and brew a batch. Collect the yeast and let's say you get four jars each time to stick with your example. Those jars are the second generation. Then from each of those you brew another batch and collect four more jars per batch, or 16 jars in the third generation. The fourth generation would then be 4 x 16, or 64.

Given this you'd have 1 + 4 + 16 + 64 = 85 batches off the original yeast. Way more than any homebrewer is going to be able to use before it goes bad unless you're fanatically dedicated to both the particular strain you've chosen and homebrewing to the exclusion of all other life activities.

Am I right about this? Or have I misunderstood something?

Since I don't mind buying yeast sometimes (Wyeast and WhiteLabs both deserve some of my money for all the good they've done homebrewing!) because I'd like to try different ones, why not collect, say, two larger jars from each batch and then have a bigger "base" to start up a correspondingly larger starter with? I'd still get 1 + 2 + 4 + 8 = 15 batches out of one pack and make it easier to "pitch big".

 

[clemson55]

I have a couple of questions, I washed some WLP001 the other day after taking my IIPA off of it. Even after going through that it has a bit of a hoppy smell to it is that an issue? Second I have an unopened WLP099 in the fridge which is very clear with a small sediment layer on the bottom and the pictures in this thread all look similar very clear with a nice sediment layer but mine has been sitting for a few days and still has a sort of foggy look it didnt clear. This makes me worry that maybe things werent clean enough and it is infected or something. Anyone have any ideas about that?

 

[beergorila]

OK guys ... wow, I'm confused. Please bear with me here. I've been following all of the yeast washing posts & wiki for a while now, and since Wyeast is no longer offering the Fat Tire strain I figured it was a great time to try my 1st wash.

HOWEVER ... I have this inescapable feeling I did something wrong. In the photo below are the 4 mason jars I harvested from my Fat Tire clone this past weekend. The one on the far left was the last one I filled, yet it looks the most like the other photos in this thread. Did I do something wrong? I did not add more water than was suggested (but there is whirlfloc in the trub).

After the 20 minute wait period there were two extremely different layers (which looked just like the jar on the left now) and of equal layer volume -- they were each 50% of the remaining content at the bottom of the primary. Should I have grabbed more of the trub?? If so I would've had to have poured all of that top layer out which would have equaled about a GALLON of the clearer liquid. I thought I was reading correctly that the trub was all the junk, and what I REALLY wanted was the yeast in suspension and found in the top layer, once everything settled in the primary.

Ummmm .... right?

 

[Bernie Brewer]

I don't know how you got such a thick layer on the left, but the ones on the right are what mine usually look like.

 

[beergorila]

Whew! that makes me feel better ... 1st time jitters, along with trying to salvage a discontinued strain, I guess ... Thanks Bern!

 

[s3n8]

I guess I must have done something wrong... I ended up with 1.5 inches of yeast and trub (I guess) on the bottom of all of my mason jars. How do you "decant" without disturbing the layer of trub on the bottom? I first tried the auto siphon but didnt have enough material to get a good run going. I have a 1liter starter going on my stir plate right now that has a nice layer of krausen on it. Hope its ok. Any way to know for sure?

 

[RoaringBrewer]

So, I'm going to wash yeast for the first time probably this weekend. Here's my question. I racked a batch to secondary last night after about 20 days in primary. I initially planned on brewing and pitching on cake, but no time yesterday. I also initially planned to wash yeast right when I racked (if I couldn't pitch on cake), but also ran out of time for that.

So... basically I just left a little bit of brew on top of the yeast cake and replaced the airlock on the primary carboy. E.g. I have a carboy with a cake and about 1" of beer on top of it, airlocked... Will it still be OK to wash and reuse this yeast when I get around to it? What if I don't get around to it until early next week? Is this any different than what I had before (a primary with cake and 24" of beer on top of it?) or did somehow introducing oxygen (e.g. just unairlocking it while i racked) while racking screw me?

 

[Jesse17]

So, I'm going to wash yeast for the first time probably this weekend. Here's my question. I racked a batch to secondary last night after about 20 days in primary. I initially planned on brewing and pitching on cake, but no time yesterday. I also initially planned to wash yeast right when I racked (if I couldn't pitch on cake), but also ran out of time for that.

So... basically I just left a little bit of brew on top of the yeast cake and replaced the airlock on the primary carboy. E.g. I have a carboy with a cake and about 1" of beer on top of it, airlocked... Will it still be OK to wash and reuse this yeast when I get around to it? What if I don't get around to it until early next week? Is this any different than what I had before (a primary with cake and 24" of beer on top of it?) or did somehow introducing oxygen (e.g. just unairlocking it while i racked) while racking screw me?

I'm no expert, but I'd say wash it SOON! I tried the same thing, but I siphoned all the beer off, then added 1/2" of boiled and cooled water to cover the cake. I air locked it, and left it for about 3 weeks. When I came back to it, it reeked! I think I now know what autolized yeast smells like. You couldn't help but gag if you sniffed the carboy.

I ended up scrubbing the carboy, and filling it with extra strong Star San solution for 24 hours, and still took several wash/sanitize cycles the next day to get the smell out.

From now on, if I don't have time to wash it right then, I will stir it up and pour into a Mason jar or two and stick in the fridge, or I just won't save it.

 

[Yooper]

I think Orfy did something like that, saying the yeast cake with a layer of beer for a while. I can't remember exactly how long, though, or at what temperature he kept it. Maybe PM him and ask him? Or do a search for that thread. I think it was a while ago, at least 6 months.

 

[Jolly McStanson]

I keg my beer and I get haze on the first pour. I'm wondering if I can build up the yeast in steps from the hazy beer? It sounds like fun if I could.

 

[Kugster]

That's by far the best description of yeast washing that I've seen. The pics are especially helpful.

+1 on the sticky vote.

Yeah...what he said, plus the sticky!! I was going to try to do that this weekend, we'll see how well I paid attention!

Kug
:rockin:

 

[big supper]

...Was just reading through all the posts here.......

We went trough this process a couple of weeks ago. We did not experience much seperation at all. The liquid has seperated from the solid material, but I don;t know if the yeast is still mixed with trub or not. If there is some trub in there, is that a problem?

 

[EinGutesBier]

I recently read somewhere that washed yeast loses about 25% of its viability every week from the washing date. Is that true? Because I washed some yeast early to mid last month and if that's the case, the yeast is pretty much worthless now. Can anyone dispute this? I'd hate to have dead yeast on my hands here.

 

[Warrior]

I recently read somewhere that washed yeast loses about 25% of its viability every week from the washing date. Is that true? Because I washed some yeast early to mid last month and if that's the case, the yeast is pretty much worthless now. Can anyone dispute this? I'd hate to have dead yeast on my hands here.

After washing some Wyeast 1099 and 2000 about a month ago I stored them in the carboy @ 50 deg. I brought them up and made starters for them two days before brewing. The beers were up and going strong after a 6 hour lag time. I think the key is store the yeast cool or better yet cold in the fridge if you can. You will need to make a starter though if it has been much more than a week after fermentation and washing.

 

[trent]

gonna try this with my forbidden fruit wyeast that just fermented my belgian wit...hope to save it!!

 

[Surly]

Then, trying not to disturb the stuff at the bottom, fill up the larger jar that you boiled. If some of the stuff from the bottom gets in, it's not the end of the world.

Let this jar settle for 20 minutes or so, too. You'll notice some more stuff settling to the bottom again.

Then, again being careful not to disturb the stuff on the bottom, fill up the small Mason jars. Fill them all the way up.

The four on the left are the ones I did today. the one on the right is one that I did last February. It's just there to show the final product.

All that's left to do is label the jars and put them in the fridge. Then when it's time to make a starter, you just pull one out, let it warm to room temp, and decant most of the liquid out of the jar, give the rest a good shake, and pitch it into your starter..

Hope this helps. Good luck.

So...in reference to the jar on the right. When ready to pitch to create a starter, it is the stuff towards the bottom you want. The top layers are the beer you do not want to pitch. Am I right?

 

[EinGutesBier]

Gammon, that's right. The amber colored fluid is the beer itself. The stuff on the bottom is the yeast that has settled out and separated from the beer. Like the FAQ said, you want to dump as much beer as you can without disturbing the yeast on the bottom (which isn't too hard). Then, when you have minimal liquid, your yeast slurry will be concentrated, which is just easier overall for the whole process.