Yeast starter needed?

[thehopthief]

I'm new to brewing and starting my second brew. The first time I used a recipe kit from NB and liquid yeast from Imperial. Everything was fairly straight forward and appears to have worked ok based on gravity readings (I'll know for sure in 2 weeks after the bottles are finished carbonating and conditioning).

My next beer is likely going to be with the BIAB method rather than malt extract and specialty grain steeping only but the main question I have is do I need to a yeast starter and/or nutrients? The beer is going to be a double IPA shooting for 8-8.5% probably 3 or 4 gallon batch. My first beer in the kit I did not use either of these but I keep reading that you do need it especially with higher ABV beers.

 

[VikeMan]

My advice would be to ignore whatever simplified instructions might be printed on the yeast package, get familiar with one of the yeast starter calculators, and use that to determine whether you need a starter (and how big) for each batch.

Eventually, you may find you want to tweak some of the parameters (such as target pitch rate) used by the calculator(s), but you can't really go too far wrong with the defaults to start.

 

[Jim R]

There is no downside to making a yeast starter except a little bit of time and a little bit of cost for some DME the day before brew day. I don't brew anything anymore without a yeast starter but it is certainly not mandatory.

 

[thehopthief]

Ok so per a bunch of different calculators I should shoot for >250 billion cells so I'm thinking that means yes to a starter. In order to get that many, I'd need to pitch a 100 billion cell pack into about 3 liters of wort with OG of 1.04 or so which I think is pretty common for starters with light DME.

I don't have a stir plate (although maybe will be investing soon) so how often should I shake the starter? Given work from home situation I'm a bit more able to do it every few hours but of course overnight and things may be an issue. What is the rule of thumb for shaking the starter?

 

[VikeMan]

I don't have a stir plate (although maybe will be investing soon) so how often should I shake the starter? Given work from home situation I'm a bit more able to do it every few hours but of course overnight and things may be an issue. What is the rule of thumb for shaking the starter?

I'd say "As often as you can," but once every hour or two is probably fine. The idea is to keep the yeast in suspension and finding the fermentables. Also, I know they are often called "shaken" starters, but a good swirl will do the trick.

As for stir plates, they are pretty easy to DIY build, but honestly the guy a stirstarters sells them so cheap (with a lifetime warranty), that I'd suggest looking into that.

 

[Jag75]

You dont have to have a stir plate . Sometimes I just do the shaken not stirred starter especially if I decide to brew on a whim .

 

[Jim R]

I don't overthink it. I mix 3 oz of DME with 750 ml of distilled water in a 1 liter Ehrlenmeyer flask, boil it carefully for 15 min or so and stir it whenever I walk by for the next 24 hours. I did recently buy a stir plate that works great. I would estimate that I double my yeast count which is good enough for me.

I am amazed how fast my fermentation starts now after I pitch the yeast and it sure seems like that my fermentation finishes faster although I haven't bothered to measure it.

 

[rwinzing]

Agreed with everything above. I am a big fan of the starter, I make one every batch. For me adding a starter than recently adding O2 into fermenter right before pitching were the cheapest and most beneficial investments I made in my process.

 

[deuc224]

All Ive been doing is making starters during the week to yeast bank, takes about 30 minutes start to finish. Its a way to multiply my yeast during the week to prepare for brewing on the weekend.

 

[jrgtr42]

Especially with liquid yeast, I do get better results with a starter.
I add nutrients to the starter, but not to the beer. I think you could sometimes get away with no starter and nutrients added to the wort - but mostly with very low gravity beers, say 1.045 and under. Anything over does need more yeast cells than that.
I do not have a stir plate - I make my starters in old growlers, with airlock - I give then a good swirl every hour or so the first 6 hours or so, then slow down a little till cold crash time.

 

[thehopthief]

Thanks everyone. So one more question. If the yeast I am using asks for fermentation temp of 65-70 but my house is kept 72-74 (it's summer in Texas so that's actually pretty low!) do I need to worry about cooling the starter?

 

[IslandLizard]

Did you get your liquid yeast yet?
If not, can you source it locally?

Shipping liquid yeast during these hot Summer months is not recommended.
Sure, they add an ice pack. How long do you think that's gonna stay cold? It's probably melted before it leaves the warehouse.

Depending on the condition and age of the liquid yeast you get, it may take 2 starter rounds to build up enough cells for a 3-4 gallon batch of DIPA.

A 2 liter flask and a stir plate are most commonly used. Nothing smaller is useful unless you culture from small amounts! Or do mini batches.

Since you don't have a stir plate, look up "shaken-not-stirred" yeast starters as @VikeMan suggested. You'd need at least a half gallon jug or growler, a gallon is better. They're like $5 at the homebrew store. Or use 3-4 liter wine jug from the liquor store. Some DME for the starter wort.

 

[VikeMan]

Since you don't have a stir plate, look up "shaken-not-stirred" yeast starters as @VikeMan suggested.

Actually, I was referring to the more traditional "intermittent shaking" starter, and not the newer shaken-not-stirred ("vitality") method. Personally, I'm not really sold on vitality starters. That said, a vitality starter would certainly be a non-stirplate option here.

 

[IslandLizard]

Actually, I was referring to the more traditional "intermittent shaking" starter, and not the newer shaken-not-stirred ("vitality") method. Personally, I'm not really sold on vitality starters. That said, a vitality starter would certainly be a non-stirplate option here.

I don't see "shaken-not-stirred" solely as a vitality starter method.
What I gather from the original thesis it's primarily an excellent, optimized, growing method. The air/oxygen inside thin wort/yeast membranes (foam/bubbles) being an ideal growing medium for cell propagation. Shake hard, and often, to produce as much foam as possible is key. Letting fresh air (or pure oxygen) right before the next shake.

 

[IslandLizard]

If the yeast I am using asks for fermentation temp of 65-70 but my house is kept 72-74 (it's summer in Texas so that's actually pretty low!) do I need to worry about cooling the starter?

65-70F is a recommended range for fermenting ales without creating lots of fusel alcohols and off flavors.

Yeast propagates better and faster at much higher temps, optimally around 80-90F.
Since we don't drink the starter beer, it usually get poured off (decanted) before pitching, very little of those not-so-good tasting byproducts is transferred to the batch. Even without crashing and decanting, it's still difficult if not impossible to taste 2 liters of oxidized starter beer added to a 5 (19 liter) gallon batch.

So selecting a warmer area in your home is advantageous for propagating your yeast starters.