Yeast starter idea

[NYShooterGuy]

Lately I've been making starters with enough to have about 100 billion extra cells so as to pitch what I need and save the extra 100 billion cells for the next stater.

It saves me the trouble of trying to harvest yeast after fermentation from the fermenter, and I know I have a supply that is free of slurry.

Does this also allow for an greater number of times I can make starters, or should I stick to only making these starters about 6 times before using an new strain from the manufacturer?

 

[arnobg]

Why not split that into multiple vials and make larger starters from them when you want to use one? Then in theory you could use each vial 6 times....

 

[Gavin C]

Lately I've been making starters with enough to have about 100 billion extra cells so as to pitch what I need and save the extra 100 billion cells for the next stater.

It saves me the trouble of trying to harvest yeast after fermentation from the fermenter, and I know I have a supply that is free of slurry.

Does this also allow for an greater number of times I can make starters, or should I stick to only making these starters about 6 times before using an new strain from the manufacturer?

This is called overbuilding a starter and can give you a potentially limitless supply of yeast from a single vial. Do it every time I make a starter.

 

[bloke]

For how long can you store the yeast in the jar in fridge? Shoould I use the the date I put it into fridge as production date when I make my new starter from it? Very nice method though!

 

[flars]

Here is a pitch rate/starter calculator with the overbuild option if you prefer viewing your numbers on screen.
http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php

This calculator also has a good viability estimator for stored yeast.

 

[bobo31]

I use this method every time. I prefer it because the yeast isn't seeing a high alcohol environment or coming in contact with hops which means less stress to the yeast. I have taken my Vermont IPA yeast out to about generation 6 with no problems. I have also used yeast that has been in the fridge for 8 months with no problems. I did have one starter that seemed off, that was San Diego Super yeast. It smelled way to fruity and wasn't flocking like normal so I dumped that one and used dry yeast. I always keep a few packets in case of emergency or if I forget to make a starter in time.

 

[NYShooterGuy]

http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php

This has been the EXACT website I've been using to calculate every starter.

 

[NYShooterGuy]

Why not split that into multiple vials and make larger starters from them when you want to use one? Then in theory you could use each vial 6 times....

I'll have to try that for the next strain. Right now I'm contemplating adopting Wyeast 1968 London ESB as my House yeast. It makes my favorite beers out of all 43 batches I've made. I love the malt flavor it leaves after chewing through the sugars. The problem with harvesting is that it's so focculant, I never can harvest the yeast from the trub. With my method of over generating cells, I will always have 100 Billion to make a new starter.

I was just concerned with possible mutations or (eeep!) contamination from wild yeast or an infection. I don't have a lab or an upward draft Bunson Burner to draw contaminates out, so I'm paranoid about the nasties I see floating around in the sun light streaming through my kitchen window.

Warmer weather, flowers, grass and trees spreading thier seads, the dogs shedding and yeast coming off thier skin, plus my leaky nose from said allergens makes for and potentially adverse environment for pure yeaat strains to stay unfowled.

 

[arnobg]

I use Gavin's method as he describes above with one difference. My procedure looks like this:

When I get a new pack of yeast Ill make a large starter and split that into 4 vials for example. Then before brew day I'll use one of those vials to make a starter, but when I make this starter I also slightly overbuild it and return some back to that emptied vial. I now still have 4 vials, just one of them is now on Generation 2 which I keep track of. Next time I use the yeast I'll use one of the 4 vials I hadn't used yet to make a starter, to keep them all as fresh as possible.

This may sound complicated but it is very simple and it solves the problem of hitting generation 5 or 6 and having to get a new yeast pack. Instead of 6 uses you now have 6 uses from 4 vials, or 24 uses. If you brew often enough each vial won't sit too long without use. This is perfect if you use a "house" yeast strain and don't venture off into many different yeasts.

Just sanitize well, never had an infection, failed starter, or failed fermentation here.

 

[mongoose33]

I use Gavin's method as he describes above with one difference. My procedure looks like this:

When I get a new pack of yeast Ill make a large starter and split that into 4 vials for example. Then before brew day I'll use one of those vials to make a starter, but when I make this starter I also slightly overbuild it and return some back to that emptied vial. I now still have 4 vials, just one of them is now on Generation 2 which I keep track of. Next time I use the yeast I'll use one of the 4 vials I hadn't used yet to make a starter, to keep them all as fresh as possible.

This may sound complicated but it is very simple and it solves the problem of hitting generation 5 or 6 and having to get a new yeast pack. Instead of 6 uses you now have 6 uses from 4 vials, or 24 uses. If you brew often enough each vial won't sit too long without use. This is perfect if you use a "house" yeast strain and don't venture off into many different yeasts.

Just sanitize well, never had an infection, failed starter, or failed fermentation here.

I'm at the point in my brewing education where I'm starting to worry about yeast and how to improve my use of it.

What kind of "house" yeast do you have? Is it a yeast that is versatile enough to brew several styles or do you tend to stick to just particular styles with that yeast?

My current fermenting brew is the first one where I think I did the starter correctly--starter, 24 hours on stir plate, cold-crashed, decanted, warmed up to pitching temp, and pitched it. Fermentation took off like a rocket, had a krausen at something like 7 hours.

 

[bobo31]

I use Gavin's method as he describes above with one difference. My procedure looks like this:

When I get a new pack of yeast Ill make a large starter and split that into 4 vials for example. Then before brew day I'll use one of those vials to make a starter, but when I make this starter I also slightly overbuild it and return some back to that emptied vial. I now still have 4 vials, just one of them is now on Generation 2 which I keep track of. Next time I use the yeast I'll use one of the 4 vials I hadn't used yet to make a starter, to keep them all as fresh as possible.

This may sound complicated but it is very simple and it solves the problem of hitting generation 5 or 6 and having to get a new yeast pack. Instead of 6 uses you now have 6 uses from 4 vials, or 24 uses. If you brew often enough each vial won't sit too long without use. This is perfect if you use a "house" yeast strain and don't venture off into many different yeasts.

Just sanitize well, never had an infection, failed starter, or failed fermentation here.

I like this idea. And these jars would work perfect for that. What do you use to store the yeast in. You said vial but do you have link or something from where you got the vials?

 

[arnobg]

I'm at the point in my brewing education where I'm starting to worry about yeast and how to improve my use of it.

What kind of "house" yeast do you have? Is it a yeast that is versatile enough to brew several styles or do you tend to stick to just particular styles with that yeast?

My current fermenting brew is the first one where I think I did the starter correctly--starter, 24 hours on stir plate, cold-crashed, decanted, warmed up to pitching temp, and pitched it. Fermentation took off like a rocket, had a krausen at something like 7 hours.

I use Wyeast 1056 for most of my brewing. Obviously this doesn't work for every style, but for the majority of styles I do 1056 is great. You could do this with any strain that is versatile for what you brew, such as the 1318 that someone mentioned. I do keep other strains as well, just not as many vials of them. If I am only going to use it once or twice in the next few brews, I only store one vial instead of the 4 vial method I mentioned. I'll harvest this single vial from an overbuilt yeast starter for my brew day.

I like this idea. And these jars would work perfect for that. What do you use to store the yeast in. You said vial but do you have link or something from where you got the vials?

I use White Labs old vials, but they are simply 2 liter soda bottles that haven't been blow up yet. You can get them from sources such as Amazon. Jars also work, but they take up a lot more unnecessary space.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008MB1QNY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[bobo31]

Cool those are perfect, thank you. I have been wanting to downsize because my jars are pint size and the collection continues to grow. With 2 new yeasts in the fridge and 3 on the way room is becoming a concern.

 

[tjosborne]

Subbed, interesting thread.

 

[ophillium]

Subbed, interesting thread.

Seconded. Very insightful.

 

[NYShooterGuy]

I've never tried wyeast 1318, but love the results of Wyeast 1968. From my research, they seem VERY similar. As far as 1056, I've just been rehydrating S-05, splitting the jar of rehydrated S-05, and making a stater from the (approx) 34.5 billion cells, and saving the other 34.5 billion for another stater (using the same website and formula for an overbuild of excess cells for the next starter).

I haven't been able to make more than a 5-6 gallon batch at a rate of one a week. This week is a vacation, and I have the room and time to do 2 batches of 2 entirely different beers (ESB, Imperial Pumpkin). These 2 batches have different yeast demands and thus a high quantity of stored yeast of the same strain isn't called for, but eventually I would like to experiment with previous wort batches I've made (wheat, fruit, vegitable, pale ales, ipas porters, stouts, reds, ambers, browns, etc) and inoculate them all with the same strain to see what I end up with. Then I will make full use of the 4x6 method of making yeast populations.

Imagine the savings of taking a $6.99 package of pure yeast, and dividing it into 24 batches. That's gotta be, like, 29 cents a batch or something!

 

[NYShooterGuy]

I've never tried wyeast 1318, but love the results of Wyeast 1968. From my research, they seem VERY similar. As far as 1056, I've just been rehydrating S-05, splitting the jar of rehydrated S-05, and making a stater from the (approx) 34.5 billion cells, and saving the other 34.5 billion for another stater (using the same website and formula for an overbuild of excess cells for the next starter).

I haven't been able to make more than a 5-6 gallon batch at a rate of one a week. This week is a vacation, and I have the room and time to do 2 batches of 2 entirely different beers (ESB, Imperial Pumpkin). These 2 batches have different yeast demands and thus a high quantity of stored yeast of the same strain isn't called for, but eventually I would like to experiment with previous wort batches I've made (wheat, fruit, vegitable, pale ales, ipas porters, stouts, reds, ambers, browns, etc) and inoculate them all with the same strain to see what I end up with. Then I will make full use of the 4x6 method of making yeast populations.

Imagine the savings of taking a $6.99 package of pure yeast, and dividing it into 24 batches. That's gotta be, like, 29 cents a batch or something!

Actually, if you add the cost of DME 3 lbs for $12.99 and 1380 grams per 3 lb package, between 100 to 200 grams per starter, and then the cost of the original smack pack of $6.99, the cost of each started yeast batch would be (roughly) $1.75.

Even still, better than $6.99 per batch.

 

[arnobg]

Actually, if you add the cost of DME 3 lbs for $12.99 and 1380 grams per 3 lb package, between 100 to 200 grams per starter, and then the cost of the original smack pack of $6.99, the cost of each started yeast batch would be (roughly) $1.75.

Even still, better than $6.99 per batch.

Well if we are going to get really accurate, a $6.99 smack pack turns into a $8.74 smack pack because of the starter you put it in going by that example. So comparing $1.75 to $8.75 looks even better!

 

[MaryB]

IF you have a healthy yeast culture going 1 or 2 wild yeasts floating in on dust are not going to gain a foothold.

 

[NYShooterGuy]

IF you have a healthy yeast culture going 1 or 2 wild yeasts floating in on dust are not going to gain a foothold.

Excellent!

Why is it good practice then to use the yeast only up to 6 times? How does yeast get mutated? How does yeast after being used multiple times change the wort from it's original strain?

 

[NYShooterGuy]

Well if we are going to get really accurate, a $6.99 smack pack turns into a $8.74 smack pack because of the starter you put it in going by that example. So comparing $1.75 to $8.75 looks even better!

"I was told there would be no math"

 

[SGTSparty]

I use White Labs old vials, but they are simply 2 liter soda bottles that haven't been blow up yet. You can get them from sources such as Amazon. Jars also work, but they take up a lot more unnecessary space.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008MB1QNY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Do you use any time of rack/holder to keep them upright or do you lay them down/stand them up on the cap?

 

[wapitiscat]

When I get a new pack of yeast Ill make a large starter and split that into 4 vials for example.

I'm guessing that you split the starter up into smaller containers (e.g., 500 ml jars) and let the yeast settle before decanting and transferring to the vials. Is that about right?

Todd

 

[SteelManCM]

I use the Soda Bottle Preforms and a rack that I got from Amazon. You can see my whole procedure here, along with links to what I use.

No, they are not affiliate links. I make no money at all from this, just love to share.

Building a Yeast Bank

 

[arnobg]

Not sure if someone linked to this yeast starter calculator yet, but this is a good one with a harvesting overbuild calculator built into it.

http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php

Do you use any time of rack/holder to keep them upright or do you lay them down/stand them up on the cap?

I do not use a stand but they do sell those on Amazon too. I actually stand them up in a couple glass cups in the back of my refrigerator. I can fit 4 perfectly in a cup and it holds them upright and keeps them organized. If you have room in the bottom of a kegerator you could store them there too.

I'm guessing that you split the starter up into smaller containers (e.g., 500 ml jars) and let the yeast settle before decanting and transferring to the vials. Is that about right?

Todd

I cold crash and decant the starter, the swirl and pour the slurry in the vials using a funnel.

I use the Soda Bottle Preforms and a rack that I got from Amazon. You can see my whole procedure here, along with links to what I use.

No, they are not affiliate links. I make no money at all from this, just love to share.

Building a Yeast Bank

This is actually just about the exact process I use down to the funnel at the end.

 

[bobo31]

I use the Soda Bottle Preforms and a rack that I got from Amazon. You can see my whole procedure here, along with links to what I use.

No, they are not affiliate links. I make no money at all from this, just love to share.

Building a Yeast Bank

Nice write up and thank you for the link.

The link for the rack you use is no longer available on amazon. Is the key here that it has to be 25mm rack? I ordered the soda bottles now I would like to get some thing to organize them nicely in the fridge.

 

[SteelManCM]

Yes, 25mm holds them nicely with no play.