Yeast harvesting - a NON-slant method

[Misplaced_Canuck]

M_C

Great write up, good photos and great info.

How long have you been able to keep the yeast in the vials in the refrigerator without loosing a significant amount of viability? Have you pitched into a starter and had success after 2, 3, 6 or 8 months or more?
Just curious on what one could expect as far as storage.

Jerry

I'm at 12 months on my oldest yeast. No problems. Takes a 2-3 days for the starter to get going but no other issues.

MC

 

[chemman14]

how long can you store your canned starters for?

 

[boxerbrew]

Where do you get those little vials? Are they plastic?

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Where do you get those little vials? Are they plastic?

EBay had them. Capitol Vial has them too.

MC

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Updated the regenerating portion.

MC

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

how long can you store your canned starters for?

Sorry I missed that one. I brew at least once a month, so within 4-5 months all the canned starters are used. I don't see any problems with going up to one year.

MC

 

[Brew-ta-sauraus]

I was confused by the 10% water & starsan solution but I reread the entire write up and I got it now. To clarify after you put the yeast in the vials you can refridgerate that yeast for months?

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

I was confused by the 10% water & starsan solution but I reread the entire write up and I got it now. To clarify after you put the yeast in the vials you can refridgerate that yeast for months?

Yes, provided that 1) Your vials were sanitized properly 2) You do a starter for your next batch. The contents of the vials are not "ready to pitch".

MC

 

[mobilecabinworks]

This needs to be Stickied!

 

[fish4fun]

MC,

I would like to thank you for a very detailed and well-documented (series of) post(s)! I have been reading a lot about yeast propagation, storage and handling and this is one of the more practical, "hands on" descriptions of the process that I have read.

I have "read" a great deal more than I have "done", but I am obsessed with sanitation when it comes to anything post-boil. I ferment in Sanke kegs that have been boiled with sanitizer in them and drained/covered. I transfer my wort directly from the boil kettle to the Sanke fermenter while the wort is @ a rolling boil, and let the Sanke cool (sealed) over night before pitching my yeast. (I pressurize the Sanke with O2 and shake it vigorously prior to pitching the yeast, and consider this step and the actual pitching of the yeast as the weakest links of sanitation in my process. ie the only time my wort has any ambient exposure.)

I am just starting with yeast "washing", "starters" and storage. I purchased one 1L Erlenmeyer Flask "starter kit" a few weeks back and have four more 1L and five 2L flasks + various stoppers on order.

(SIDE NOTE: http://www.ArtistSupplySource.com has 1L bromex Flasks for $6.70 each and 2L Bromex Flasks for $9.10 each. Their shipping is high for one or two flasks (~$15), but does not increase much as quantities increase; all 9 flasks I ordered, with shipping totaled a few cents South of $100; $72.30 + $27.22 S&H = $99.52 . I thought that was a pretty good deal. Oddly, their prices on stoppers are quite high, so I ordered them elsewhere.)

I have been "practicing" by using small quantities of my pitching yeasts to create "mock starters". I go through the whole process then simply pour the "mock starter" down the drain on the next brew day. ( I am simply too worried about sanitation/contamination to trust my "mock starters" yet, but I am gaining confidence and almost ready to actually use one of them. To date I have had no "off smells" or any signs of contamination, in my "mock starters", so I am beginning to think I am on the right track.)

One question for you (or anyone else): I have been thinking I might be better-off harvesting yeast from my fermenter during active fermentation. This would be easy to achieve after ~day four of the fermentation process by simply pressurizing the Sanke "air tube" with CO2 and running some of the wort/cake up the racking cane through a sanitized hose into a flask. I am thinking at this time the yeast/cake would be full of very viable yeast, and the process should not endanger the fermenting wort as there would be no exposure to ambient. Does this sound like a reasonable plan?

This a picture of two of my fermenters:

One has a "blow-off tube" because it is "early in the process", the other has a bubbler because it is nearly done . As you can see, attaching a CO2 tank to the "relief tube" would be trivial, and the racking arm is already "all the way down", so extracting yeast using CO2 ****should**** be easy and sanitary (at least that is my thought, but I am ASKING not telling).

Thank you again for these great posts, they have helped me build confidence.

Fish

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

I have been thinking I might be better-off harvesting yeast from my fermenter during active fermentation. This would be easy to achieve after ~day four of the fermentation process by simply pressurizing the Sanke "air tube" with CO2 and running some of the wort/cake up the racking cane through a sanitized hose into a flask. I am thinking at this time the yeast/cake would be full of very viable yeast, and the process should not endanger the fermenting wort as there would be no exposure to ambient. Does this sound like a reasonable plan?

Fish

Reasonable, yes. Would I do it myself? Probably not. I do not trust my primary fermentation to be as completely sanitized as my kitchen "lab", in the sense that if a bug were to end up in my yeast, it would be much more likely to come from the primary or secondary as there's a lot more (possible) exposure to contaminants from the moment it leaves the brew kettle until I harvest that yeast.

If I think about where I can pick up a a bug from my kitchen lab, here are the possible sources:

a) tap water I use in the 10% rinse mix. [I could use sterilized water]
b) open container until I cover it with foil
c) foil itself [I could keep the foil at 250F in the oven]
d) side of mason jar that contains the starter [I do flame the side]
e) the yeast vial sides [I do keep it in sanitizing solution]
f) the yeast contents itself [I do smell/taste it after I put it in]
g) the foil I use on top of the erlenmeyer. [oven again]

I mitigate some of the above in my procedure. They are certainly not flawless, but with the zero-infection ratio that I've been getting, I'm not concerned much at all.

I am not as cautious when I'm doing a batch of beer. Haven't had an infection in a long time, but I don't think my brewing procedures are as tight as in my kitchen lab.

So, back to your question: Reasonable? Yes. Should you try it? Why not.

It's the old "There's more than one way to skin a cat".

MC

 

[geeyoupee]

I was wondering if its possible to make the wort without the pressure cooker. The point of the pressure cooker is to kill the wild yeast or bacteria right.

I was thinking of making the wort and putting them into the jars with loosely fitted lids. Then I would put the jars in a pot of simmering water and allow the wort to get to a boil. The boiled wort and steam should kill all the bugs inside right the jar right?

I also had another question about regnerating the yeast. How do you know how much to step up when generating the yeast? How do you know how much you initially had in the vials you saved to do the step up?

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Been a little while since I updated this thread.

I started a Wyeast 1056 yeast that I had stored in March 2011, as per the process in this thread. I put the yeast on the stir plate on Wednesday morning (9am) and at 10p last night (thursday) I had visible fermentation. At 8am today (Friday), I had a full krausen in the erlenmeyer (and in a growler). I plan on pitching tomorrow so I'm in good shape.

MC

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

I was wondering if its possible to make the wort without the pressure cooker. The point of the pressure cooker is to kill the wild yeast or bacteria right.

I was thinking of making the wort and putting them into the jars with loosely fitted lids. Then I would put the jars in a pot of simmering water and allow the wort to get to a boil. The boiled wort and steam should kill all the bugs inside right the jar right?

For immediate use? Sure. For long term storage? No, as the 212F temperature isn't quite high enough to kill botulism.

I also had another question about regnerating the yeast. How do you know how much to step up when generating the yeast? How do you know how much you initially had in the vials you saved to do the step up?

This, I mostly do from experience. The yeast saved off in the vials is usually a thin 1/8" to 1/4", so the quantity of yeast solids isn't that great. Depending on the level of activity of the yeast during the regeneration, I may decide to do a step-up/augmentation, but often times the yeast is plenty strong to ferment a full batch.

MC

 

[CloverBrew]

I agree, this thread should be stickied. Best everyday yeast propagation read ive cme across yet. Who neexsto be adressed for this

 

[MTBear]

Great thread. It inspired me to order up a bunch of vials last night.

I note that you do your initial propagation from the growler. Is this a process thing for you, or is there an inherent advantage to the yeast letting it ferment out this way as opposed to using a starter batch to propagate?

I think it would be easier for me just to carve off a couple of vials from my starter each time.

Also, trying to learn more about petite mutation. Sounds like you need to be careful cold crashing too fast?

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

I note that you do your initial propagation from the growler. Is this a process thing for you, or is there an inherent advantage to the yeast letting it ferment out this way as opposed to using a starter batch to propagate?

I think it would be easier for me just to carve off a couple of vials from my starter each time.

Also, trying to learn more about petite mutation. Sounds like you need to be careful cold crashing too fast?

I have done some storage to vials from erlenmeyer flasks in the past, but during my process of pitching to the fermenters, the flasks tend to stay open longer than I care. There's also less manipulation/open-air time when it's a dedicated starter for storage.

I don't have much info on petite mutation... google may be your best friend on that.

MC

 

[MTBear]

I have done some storage to vials from erlenmeyer flasks in the past, but during my process of pitching to the fermenters, the flasks tend to stay open longer than I care. There's also less manipulation/open-air time when it's a dedicated starter for storage.

I don't have much info on petite mutation... google may be your best friend on that.

MC

I figured you had a good reason for the growler....and I wasn't disappointed.

I have done a few searches on the mutation issue and have not come up with material that satisfactorily answers the question from a brewer's perspective. Like I do with other issues....I'll ignore it for now.

Thanks again for the informative thread and the quick response. This really should be a sticky!