Wyeast 3724 question

[Mojojoey]

Fermentation question here.
I'm brewing a clone of Dupont's Avec Les Bon Voeux with wyeast 3724. I followed Drew Beechum's guide -
I made a starter, pitched at about 65, then slowly raised the temp over 4 or 5 days to about 85, and am open fermenting (sanitized aluminum foil taped onto my bucket).
It's been fermenting for 3 weeks now and is only going down one gravity point per day (I'm keeping track with a tilt hydrometer). It's currently at around 1030.

So... do I just let it go until it's finished in another 3 weeks or so?

Is the rate of fermentation enough to keep a good C02 blanket in place to prevent bugs from contaminating the beer?

Should I put an airlock on to be safe?

At what point do I add more of a yeast like 3711 to speed things up?

Thanks in advance!

 

[TANSTAAFB]

The dreaded DuPont 1030 stall! You have a couple of options...
1) be patient, it WILL finish but agonizingly slowly
2) ramp up the temps and it WILL kick off again and finish up. I've had it to damn near 100.
3) pitch 3711 to speed things along
4) pitch brett.

I had a batch that stalled. I split it and ramped temp of one and pitched brett in the other. Both finished at 1004, both very different beers!
Good luck! [emoji482]

 

[dbeechum]

Well, that's disconcerting. Usually doesn't happen with my protocol. Two big q's - OG of your Avec clone and how much starter?

 

[Mojojoey]

I used Nathan Smiths clone recipe. 1075, then I added .5 lb of sugar at day two and day 4 of fermentation (so... I figure about 1085 with the sugar).

I made a 1.3 liter single stage starter - ~1050 gravity on the starter. I kind of half decanted it before pitching.

 

[dbeechum]

My guess is the starter was a little small. When you're at that strength with a cranky yeast strain, I'd go a little bigger 2-3 liters.

 

[Mojojoey]

Would you wait it out or add some 3711? Also - love the podcast!

 

[dbeechum]

Thanks and I'd say unless you're in a hurry - wait. It'll get you there and I think the flavor is much better than any of the french strains

 

[Mojojoey]

will do! ugh... patience...

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Thanks and I'd say unless you're in a hurry - wait. It'll get you there and I think the flavor is much better than any of the french strains

Yup and YUP!

will do! ugh... patience...

 

[Trehak]

Ever since my first 3724 use I now do open fermentation. Until I see the gravity low enough and slowing down that it will finish out with the airlock

When I openferment I use tin foil spray sandtar on it and tighten it down over the opening

 

[Andre3000]

I figured I'd post here instead of starting another thread since there seems to be a lot of 3724 threads. In Beechum's guide, he mentions pitching at mid 60s; I may have made a small mistake:

I observed the starter really falling flat on its face after 24 hrs, probably from the stall in that environment. Given this and from what I thought I had read, I decided to pitch warmer than usual at 72°F (chamber also being held at this temp). There is already visible activity after 12 hours. I don't really want to cool it given how finicky this strain is. Is this going to produce undesirable flavors starting out this warm?

That was day 0. I was either going to ramp up by 2°F starting tonight (day 1), OR wait till day 3 and ramp up by 3-4°F per day until I reach mid to high 80s.

Can anyone comment? Thanks!

 

[TANSTAAFB]

You're fine at that temp. And I'd let it free rise until you see the temps and fermentation start to drop, then start ramping it up to dry out.

 

[Andre3000]

You're fine at that temp. And I'd let it free rise until you see the temps and fermentation start to drop, then start ramping it up to dry out.

The trouble is my fermenter is in the basement and it gets quite cold down there so I have to temp control all my fermentation in both directions. I may measure gravity tonight to get a good idea of how fast it's going and I guess I'll make a decision at that point unless you have an opinion on it. I like the sounds of the day 2/3 ramp up.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

How cold? The fermentation is going to produce a lot of heat (exothermic) so unless it's in the 50s I'd be comfortable letting it ride until it slowed down, then add heat to keep it up and slowly drive it up. What's your planned upper limit?

 

[Andre3000]

How cold? The fermentation is going to produce a lot of heat (exothermic) so unless it's in the 50s I'd be comfortable letting it ride until it slowed down, then add heat to keep it up and slowly drive it up. What's your planned upper limit?

Low 60s if not into the 50s. The heater has not come on yet and it's just maintaining at 71ish on its own. Just measured gravity and it's gone from 1.052 to 1.048 in slightly less than 24 hours. I suppose as it approaches the 1.030s it's time to ramp it up?

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Watch the temps. It will ramp up on its own, probably into the upper 60s. I'd pay more attention to temp and krausen but I don't like checking gravity. Seems like a needless risk of infection unless you have a sanitary way to grab a sample

 

[Andre3000]

Watch the temps. It will ramp up on its own, probably into the upper 60s. I'd pay more attention to temp and krausen but I don't like checking gravity. Seems like a needless risk of infection unless you have a sanitary way to grab a sample

I regularly use a StarSan rinsed beer thief in the carboy? I'm on my 15th or so brew and I've never had a hint of an infection.

I decided to increase by 4°F to 76°F tonight as the gravity was already approaching the low 1.040s, and I tasted it and while it already tastes fantastic, it needs more esters! Haha. I will do another 4°F for the next few days till I reach 85-90°F. Think 90°F is too hot?

Edit: Also, this foil business sounds a bit hokey to me. I'm to believe that 1" water column = .03 psi = .2 kPa is going to somehow stall the yeast out?? We get larger daily pressure variances from the weather! But I've been wrong before...

 

[Kent88]

I've brewed 3 saisons (with rhubarb) with 3724. First one I believe got it below 1.015 before it slowed down, and it took a few extra weeks (I have a thread about it somewhere...). The second one I had no issues. This last one suffered from some neglect but still went down to 1.003 without much effort on the brewers part.

I guess I'm just lucky. I hope that continues. I sure do love my yearly rhubarb saison.

 

[Mojojoey]

checking back in.

After 10 weeks, the FG was right where it needed to be at 1.008. I bottled (added just a bit of fresh yeast - yeast bay wallonian farmhouse from a starter that was going for another batch) to make sure bottle conditioning would go well.

After 3 weeks in the bottle it tasted a little bit hot - I'm assuming I got some fusel alcohol from straining the yeast (that would be supported by Drew's underpitching theory). Otherwise the flavors are all perfect.

I put the rest of the bottles in my closet where they will sit for a few more months before I check again. I'm hoping that the flavors will all settle down with some aging.

 

[Kent88]

1.008? I would've given it another week. I think all my saisons have been 1.007 or below at bottling.

But I add some easily fermentable sugar and water with my rhubarb additions, so I can't criticize too much.

 

[Andre3000]

Something quite curious: since my OG was 1.052, I've reached 1.012 at around day 10. It was the same reading on day 7. It's sitting at 90°F. I'm going to take another reading on day 15 and if it hasn't changed, it's going into the keg. I really was hoping for more attenuation, though it does taste quite delicious.

 

[Kent88]

I guess one other thing I have done with my last couple saisons is use beer yeast nutrient. I decided to give the stuff a try after arguing with someone on here about whether beer needed yeast nutrient. I still don't think beer needs yeast nutrients, but lately I have been making high gravity styles, and it allows me to do a better job of RDWHAHB.

Using it with a yeast that is notorious for stalling seems like a good idea. Maybe even adding some when it gets racked to secondary.

 

[Andre3000]

I believe I'm at day 20 and finally it appears to have moved to 1.008, this after sitting at 90°F for the better part of 13 days or so. Damn this yeast is slooooooow to finish. I like saisons but I don't know if I like them this much; it's taking up valuable space in the fermenter haha.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

I just pitched 565 in a small dark saison. I've always had good luck with 3724 but never used the White Labs version before. I'm following Drew Beechum's method of pitching low (65ish) and letting it free rise then adding heat to keep it going and finish it off, covered in foil instead of an airlock to avoid any back pressure. Fingers crossed!