Wrote a recipe and would appreciate feedback before brewing

[BikerMatt]

Hey guys I wanna make a monster Imperial IPA this weekend and would appreciate it if someone more experienced than me would take a onceover at the recipe for me in case there is an obvious flaw I`ve overlooked like way too much of something etc. The grains and hops I will be using are the ones mentioned since they have already been purchased but suggestions in possible amount changes are welcomed. As the name suggests I made the recipe pretty much off the bat with what limited knowledge I have so got very little to compare to how this might turn out.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/476045/off-the-bat

 

[theowlman16]

Other than hoppy and high ABV, what type of flavor are you looking for?

 

[eric19312]

Seems pretty high final gravity target might be too sweet. I'd change the crystal malt into table sugar. Use US05 for further increased attenuation. If you do those you should see higher attenuation and lower final gravity. Your ABV prediction might go to 12% That is probably too high so reduce the overall grain bill back to where you are hitting 9% of so.

Finally move that amarillo addition to flame out.

 

[BryceL]

A couple things I would consider changing would be:

1. Lower crystal malt to 5% or less. You don't want it to be too sweet. Since you are planning to use some Munich in there, which I like, I would lower the crystal or even remove it completely. You mentioned you already purchased the grain, so you might not be able to do this.

2. I would lower you mash temp to 64-66 degrees. Again, you don't want it too sweet so the lower mash temp will create a more fermentable wort and help to dry the beer out a bit more. This also helps the hops to "pop" a bit more.

Cheers

 

[BikerMatt]

The munich is "bag bottoms" which is why the spesific amount. All other grains are in 1kg bags so I can fiddle with the bill as I please.

I was juggling between S-04 and S-05, if I can make it to my LHBS tomorrow or friday gonna go grab a bag of fiver.

Crystal going down to 5%. as well as mash temp to 65c.

What come to flavor or other targets, my desired ABV would be around 10%, I want it to be a little malty, I want lots of hops but what I do NOT want is that lemongrassy citra sting that often puts me off on a strongly hopped IPA, which is why there isn`t any. Jeez really hard to explain in english crisp fruity spicy hoppyness with strong BUT NOT ovepowering bitterness.

Awesome stuff guys, really appreciate it!

EDIT: changes done, looking good! Eric why amarillo at flameout? Personal preference or is there a spesific reason?

I have the following hop pellets to play with:


Amarillo 10,8AA ~40g bag bottoms I wish to use
Amarillo 8,2AA 100g
Challenger 6,5AA 100g
Magnum 11AA 100g

 

[FloppyKnockers]

That's a bit generous on the gravity, imo.

That's the kind of IPA that's gonna make your eye twitch.

 

[BikerMatt]

Sooo whatcha reckon? drop the pale a bit?

I just did an "accidental strong ale" a while ago using this recipe:

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/460920/pistonhead-ish

accidental cause I sparged way too little and forgot the gravity adjustment dilute (yea don`t brew dead tired trying to keep yourself awake by sipping beer) It fermented down to .005 and 8,4% if my cheap plastic SG meter is to be trusted, anyhow it turned out so awesome I pretty much destroyed it all already. Got one left to be precise. The OG was oddly high too with .078.

 

[BikerMatt]

I tooled around with the recipe some more. Even dropping the cara out doesn't seem to make that much of a difference so I'd want to have some of it in there. Dropping the pale down naturally has a big impact however on a brew this small in volume it also makes a significant dent to the expected ABV which in this case is not acceptable so I tried adding some dextrose and it seemed to have done the trick. The thing is I don't really have a comparison yet on how sweet will the beer be at certain FG level, but after trying out different combinations I was able to find a status quo I'm happy with. The FG prediction now lies at 1.011, getting it much lower than that is proving difficult. If possible I'd like to add more pale and reduce the sugar amount but doing that is gonna make it sweeter right?

Question: at what point should I add the sugar? To the fermentor? To the kettle before/during/after boil?

I don't mind some residual sweetness, after all it's not like I'm gonna down a half liter sixpack of these in one go, but don't want to get a sugar rush from a beer either.


Another worry is if it's gonna be malty, sweet, boldly hopped AND high in ABV is it gonna create a sensory overload?

 

[BikerMatt]

Made it to the LHBS. Got the S05 yeast. Most probly brewing with how the recipe is right now (tweaked it a little more) (+irish moss I got as an impulse buy)

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I read a paper about IBU-ABV balance that talked about using a factor that incorporates both the OG and FG in a calculation to come up with what it calls a "Balance Value" (BV). I created a spreadsheet that does the calcs and plugged the current numbers in (OG 1.094, FG 1.011, IBU of 94). The article then has target numbers for different styles. For IPA's it suggests a middle range result of 1.6...yours comes in at 2.9.

It looks like your 15 and 5 minute additions are really driving the IBU score...how accurate those are will depend on how quickly you chill I think (I'm still learning this stuff). I've used the calculator for my recipes and been happy with the results (only on NEIPA's so far).

Just some food for thought.

For reference, here's a link to the article I'm talking about:
https://klugscheisserbrauerei.wordpress.com/beer-balance/

 

[z-bob]

Will US-05 go that high? Assuming it will, I'd wait to add the corn sugar (or table sugar) until after fermentation starts and then slows down a little (several days; maybe a week) In the recipe, tic the little box that says "Late addition" on the sugar.

 

[BikerMatt]

Aren't NEIPA:s pretty low on bitterness? This is supposed to be an imperial hop monster. I know I'm taking a risk with it but I guess I gotta peek over the edge to know where it is and what's on the other side... I'll report back in about a month or so if it's drinkable at all

 

[BikerMatt]

Will US-05 go that high? Assuming it will, I'd wait to add the corn sugar (or table sugar) until after fermentation starts and then slows down a little (several days; maybe a week) In the recipe, tic the little box that says "Late addition" on the sugar.

Interesting. Never done that before. Thanks.

I'm using what is sold here as "brewer's sugar" which to my understanding is pure dextrose.

 

[BryceL]

I agree with adding the dextrose to primary just after you notice fermentation starting to slow down a bit. A lot of times I'll add dextrose at the end of the boil, but with a DIPA or something with that many fermentable sugars, I add it to primary instead. Too much fermentable sugar at the beginning can stress the yeast out and you can get some hot/fusel alcohol flavors. I like to mix the sugar with just enough water for it to dissolve and boil it for a few minutes, then add it to the fermenter.

 

[BikerMatt]

Late addition added, also to be on the safe side dropped the 15min amarillo to 30g.

Think that's about that. If you got something to add you got around 25h before I start heating strike water.

Thanks for the help everyone! Really appreciated.

 

[z-bob]

+1 on dissolving the dextrose before you add it. If you're fermenting in a carboy and add powdered dextrose, you might get a geyser when all the dissolved CO2 comes out of solution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_Coke_and_Mentos_eruption

 

[BikerMatt]

Yea doing that to sterilize it too. No carboys just 30L plastic buckets.

 

[BikerMatt]

Question: if I am to add the dextrose as a late addition several days after the fermentation has started, how do I calculate the OG on which to compare the FG? I don't trust I hit the prediction anywhere close enogh to go by that. Is there a formula what with to calculate how much the added sugar will raise the OG measured before pitching?

 

[z-bob]

Delete it from the recipe or change the amount from .5 to 0 (I don't remember if brewersfriend will let you use 0) and see what it calculates for the OG. Write that in the Notes section. Then change it back to .5 kg

Edit: It will accept 0, and the calculated OG is 1.066

 

[BikerMatt]

Buuuut that won't get me the final ABV, I still have to factor in the sugar added later and still need a formula how to add it to the OG I'll be measuring post boil.

 

[z-bob]

Maybe I'm not following you. Leave the sugar in the recipe for everything except calculating the OG going into the fermenter -- and about the only thing that is useful for is seeing if you hit your numbers.

 

[BryceL]

Not sure I'm totally understanding your question. I usually do what z-bob is describing. Add the sugar to the recipe, then you will see what your OG and FG should be which you can use to calculate the abv. Then delete the sugar from the recipe to see what it gives you for an OG and write it down. This is what your target post boil should be since you are adding sugar later during fermentation.

 

[BikerMatt]

Yes, TARGET, assuming I actually HIT IT

What I'm meaning is I need to know how much the sugar addition will be raising the gravity to correctly calculate the final alc vol do I not.

So assuming the TARGET OG is 1.090 with, and 1.066 without the sugar, can I just add the difference of 0.033 to whatever my post boil OG is, even if I don't hit the target spot on, which with my noob skills is more than likely.

 

[z-bob]

Yes, TARGET, assuming I actually HIT IT

What I'm meaning is I need to know how much the sugar addition will be raising the gravity to correctly calculate the final alc vol do I not.

So assuming the TARGET OG is 1.090 with, and 1.066 without the sugar, can I just add the difference of 0.033 to whatever my post boil OG is, even if I don't hit the target spot on, which with my noob skills is more than likely.

[I'm winging it here] Go into brewersfriend and change the sugar to 0 again and adjust the "efficiency" number (currently at 70%) until it matches your measured OG. Now change the sugar back to 0.5 kg.

 

[BryceL]

Yes, TARGET, assuming I actually HIT IT

What I'm meaning is I need to know how much the sugar addition will be raising the gravity to correctly calculate the final alc vol do I not.

So assuming the TARGET OG is 1.090 with, and 1.066 without the sugar, can I just add the difference of 0.033 to whatever my post boil OG is, even if I don't hit the target spot on, which with my noob skills is more than likely.

I think I see what you are after now. Sugar has a know gravity contribution. I believe dextrose is 1.046 (46 ppg). So it will depend on your volume. Say you have exactly 5 gallons of wort in your fermenter and add 1 pound of dextrose....you would use the formula (46/5=9.2) This means the sugar addition would add 9.2 points of gravity to your beer.

 

[BikerMatt]

Brewday done, wort in the fermenter. OG without the sugar 1.066 BANG on the nose Ended up with a bit more wort than calculated, after filtering the Irish moss out I ended up with a hair over nine liters. Didn't pitch yet cause the kettle spent the rest of the night in an ice bath so it's currently at 16,5c, I lifted it onto a stool on the workshop table and flicked the wall heater on to get it nice and warm.

Now I don't really know how much of the final taste can be predicted from tasting the wort since it's so sweet now it probly masks the taste some, and because of this pollen allergy I can't taste s**t from a stew right now anyway, but still I would have expected a hundred IBU IIPA to be a LOT more bitter than what the wort tastes like.

I guess time will tell.

 

[BryceL]

Brewday done, wort in the fermenter. OG without the sugar 1.066 BANG on the nose Ended up with a bit more wort than calculated, after filtering the Irish moss out I ended up with a hair over nine liters. Didn't pitch yet cause the kettle spent the rest of the night in an ice bath so it's currently at 16,5c, I lifted it onto a stool on the workshop table and flicked the wall heater on to get it nice and warm.

Now I don't really know how much of the final taste can be predicted from tasting the wort since it's so sweet now it probly masks the taste some, and because of this pollen allergy I can't taste s**t from a stew right now anyway, but still I would have expected a hundred IBU IIPA to be a LOT more bitter than what the wort tastes like.

I guess time will tell.

Nice, glad to hear the brew day went well!! Keep us posted on how it comes along. I pretty much stopped tasting my wort, it's so sweet I was never really able to get any indications from tasting it. I'm sure those IBU's will start to show when the yeast starts eating up that sugar.

 

[BikerMatt]

Sure will, exited to see how it turns out. Sampled one of those streetfighter ale/apa:s that weekend and pretty much all I tasted because of the cloggy nose was the residual priming sugar so might well be I just missed the goodness

Strangely sluggish starting to ferment this one, there's pressure in the vessel because the waterlock isn't even but not enough to pop a bubble. Gotta be patient and wait a few more days to jump into any conclusions, or pitching more yeast.

 

[BikerMatt]

Hey guys haven`t been too active on this forum lately as I`ve pretty much devoted all the little free time I`ve had to building my bike, spring coming and all, anyway I just took a sample out of this one and figured I`d give a sit rep. So yea the fermentation was really sluggish to start, it only bubbled for like a few days before the waterlock went flat, I poured in the sugar addition and gave it a small twirl, at first it seemed it didn`t restart the fermentation at all but after a while I did get a slow bubbling, and after that pretty much forgot the whole fermentor to the shelf while doing other stuff for three weeks. The gravity reading right now reads about 1.010, so if the OG was 1.066 and after the sugar addition it should be 1.090 then the calculated ABV should right now be at 10,5%, strange enough it doesn`t taste like anything near that, or a DIPA at all but if I`ve learnt something by now it is do not judge your beer by how it tastes before bottle conditioning. Hoping to have time to bottle this tomorrow.

Oh, one more thing I found a little weird. The beer is already completely crystal clear with a nice burnt amber color.

 

[BryceL]

Sounds like it finished out just fine. I'm always stoked when a beer drops nice and crystal clear like that. Sounds like you are busy enough with other things that a few weeks in the closet to carb and condition shouldn't be a big deal

 

[BikerMatt]

Bottled and stored Yes this batch can condition in peace, it's not like I'd be chugging down a sixpack of 10% bottles at one go anyway. Had a bit of an accident, well two to be precise while bottling, it seems the old as heck full metal capper I have needs to be well oiled as one of the fangs that grab the bottle neck failed to go in it's groove crushing two bottles while capping so I only ended up with 22 bottles instead of a full case. No biggie just spooked me a little all of the sudden hearing the sound of breaking glass while pushing the levers down. Not a 100% sold on the 10% though, I had some leftover after getting all the bottles filled so decided to pour me a 0.4l pint of the stuff, as one can expect not exactly a delightful drink yet but it went down without much resistance. Was expecting a little more buzz from it but it definitely has some umph. We'll see how it developes during the bottle conditioning. Pretty far from 94 IBU as well, hoping the hoppyness will rise up once the priming sugar ferments away.

Since I got myself going I did an extract batch at the same go, coopers real ale + half a kilo of muntons extra light DME + 1kg dextrose, OG was still suspiciously low 1.042, time will tell what comes of that one. Hoping it'll ferment pretty dry with the US-05 I pitched in it.