Would You Use This Yeast?

[Newgene]

I washed my first batch of yeast yesterday, and I think it's fine, but I'd like another opinion. Let me just give you the background on the yeast.

-- US-05
-- First generation was a pale ale pitched with 2 packs. Nearly all of the trub and hops were poured into the primary from the boil.
-- A second batch was then dumped on top of the whole cake with new hops and trub from a second batch of the same pale ale.
-- The washed yeast is the same cake that was in the bottom of the primary. I first scooped off one pint of pure trub. I then performed the washing procedure from the wiki.
-- I misread the wiki. The wiki says to cool the boiled water overnight, but I assumed it is poured onto the cake cold to help the yeast knock out. I really didn't think about it potentially killing most of the yeast.
-- Now, I have 5 jars (1 pure cake and 4 washed jars). Since this has been one massive growing cake, I can understand why I would have so much yeast in each jar.
-- The washed jars have a more greenish tint that really isn't shown in the photo. Nothing else is separating out it seems, but I assume there is still entrained hop particles. Heck, the photo looks like the washed yeast is a similar color to the yeast cake, when I know that is really green. The washed yeast just has a little less green tint and no big floating chunks.

Do you think the yeast is fine, and would you use it for a starter? I just hope I don't have a big brick of dead yeast that would I be dumping in a batch.

I appreciate all opinions.

 

[Antler]

I have no real concrete information to offer, but I'd pitch it. As long as your sanitizing is good you won't be infecting your beer, so worst case scenario your pitching dead yeast and will have to re-pitch in a few days. I say go for it.

 

[progmac]

to clarify, you washed with cold water, right? i wouldn't be concerned about that. yeast can handle cold, just not freezing.

as to your pics, in the jar with liquid on top, the yeast is just that thin white line. everything else looks like trub to me. i would wash it once more (shake, let set at room temp for an hour, decant into jar, put in fridge overnight) and use the results of THAT for the starter.

OR -- and this is what i would actually do -- you could just pitch the jar on the right in that pic, the one chock-full of trub and stuff. that would be the easier route. you probably only need about half the contents of that jar, actually. for a normal gravity beer, you typically want in the ballpark of 200ml (c. 7 ounces) of SETTLED trub. pitching pure cake (trub + yeast) is super easy and incredibly effective if you know you will be brewing in 2-3 weeks from harvest. although i do put all my hops in bags to minimize hop sludge

 

[Newgene]

I started with about 3/4" of a gallon of yeast, trub, hops, and little beer leftover. I then poured in a gallon of refrigerator cold water. I would say it was probably all around 35F, but the half gallon went in first, and I would guess it was up around 40F or a little higher. The pure mass of the yeast cake probably minimized some of the shock, I would think.

 

[Newgene]

as to your pics, in the jar with liquid on top, the yeast is just that thin white line. everything else looks like trub to me. i would wash it once more (shake, let set at room temp for an hour, decant into jar, put in fridge overnight) and use the results of THAT for the starter.

If I tilt the jar, I can clearly see the thin tan line of yeast sitting on top of the rest. There is about 1.5" of the bulk at the bottom, with about 1/16" of tan yeast on top. I assumed most people just slurry up all that is left, but it sounds like I just didn't wash them nearly well enough.

I'm thinking I may just pull out the half pint jars and transfer them one for one from each pint into half pint jars. I wouldn't think there is really a need to back to the large half gallon jar. So, at this point, you wouldn't pour off some of the beer and water mix that's on top? I'm thinking I'll pour off a little less than half of it just to ensure I can fit each jar into the smaller jars.

 

[kh54s10]

I did not see an answer in the replies about the temperature of the water used. If it was over 140 or so I would expect that you killed the yeast.

In the pictures the one on the left has a thin layer of yeast.

The other looks like trub to the top. If you pour about 1/4 of that into a new jar and top off with boiled then cooled water and shake it up any yeast in there will layer on top like the jar on the left in your picture. You can do this with all the jars you have collected.

You can decant the liquid and then the yeast and wash the rest of the trub again. You may get more yeast.

Added: If you suspect that you have a lot of dead yeast - make a starter and see if it ferments. Depending on how long you have kept the washed yeast a starter might be advisable anyway.

 

[Newgene]

The water was chilled by the refrigerator, but not freezer. It was a cold water issue. I'm assuming the general consensus is that cold water makes the yeast go dormant, but not very likely they are killed...at least not with 40 degree water. It was more of a half and half mix of 40 degree and 75 degree liquid and slurry.

 

[Newgene]

I gotta ask the obvious question. If the jars like the one on the left can be used for the starter, what is the advantage of washing them further? Is it just for clarity of the final beer, or will it effect the starter? I am assuming it will likely result in a slightly higher total yeast count. I can wash them and put them in smaller jars, but I'm wondering if it's unnecessary at this point.

 

[progmac]

If I tilt the jar, I can clearly see the thin tan line of yeast sitting on top of the rest. There is about 1.5" of the bulk at the bottom, with about 1/16" of tan yeast on top. I assumed most people just slurry up all that is left, but it sounds like I just didn't wash them nearly well enough.

I'm thinking I may just pull out the half pint jars and transfer them one for one from each pint into half pint jars. I wouldn't think there is really a need to back to the large half gallon jar. So, at this point, you wouldn't pour off some of the beer and water mix that's on top? I'm thinking I'll pour off a little less than half of it just to ensure I can fit each jar into the smaller jars.

if i'm to diagnose your process, i suspect you ended up with so much trub because you were eager to pour the cake / water slurry and ended up with too much trub in suspension. or, if you did wait an appropriate amount of time for the trub to settle, you poured more than just the liquid. after you shake, make sure to wait at least 30 minute, often it takes more like an hour, and then pour only the liquid portion into the next vessel. you will end up with almost no trub even after just doing that once.

 

[progmac]

I gotta ask the obvious question. If the jars like the one on the left can be used for the starter, what is the advantage of washing them further? Is it just for clarity of the final beer, or will it effect the starter? I am assuming it will likely result in a slightly higher total yeast count. I can wash them and put them in smaller jars, but I'm wondering if it's unnecessary at this point.

it is fine to use. the reason i wash to the point of getting down to pure yeast is so that i can store it in 15ml vials. if i know i'll be using the yeast again soon, i don't stress.

 

[KeythL]

I don't strain my hops\break from the boil kettle either and my washed US-05 looks exactly as you describe. So long as you're making a starter and then pitching the starter I don't see any problem. The tiny amount of hops\trub introduced from the washed yeast starter is negligible. If the starter takes off you know you have viable yeast that will have further multiplied and thus further reduced the ratio of hops\trub to active yeast being pitched. I always crash my starter and decant before pitching just the yeast slurry also.

Brew on,

Keyth

 

[kh54s10]

A question asked was if you wash yeast why make a starter? In one of my replies I suggested a starter if there was suspicion that the yeast had been subjected to hot water or that the yeast had been kept for a long time.

I see a washed yeast in the left jar in the picture posted. The jar on the right is just a full jar of trub.

If you take that and wash it you can probably get a layer of yeast like the other jar. Use about 1/4 of that in the same sized jar, fill to the top with sterile water, shake it up and put it in the refrigerator. You should get a jar that looks like the one on the left. Layered with water on the top, a thin layer of yeast in the middle and trug on the bottom.

Collect the yeast and use mrmalty.com to determine the amount of slurry you need to pitch on the next batch.

If you keep the yeast for more than a couple of weeks I would use some to make a starter so that you know that you are pitching the correct amount of viable yeast.

 

[Newgene]

if i'm to diagnose your process, i suspect you ended up with so much trub because you were eager to pour the cake / water slurry and ended up with too much trub in suspension. or, if you did wait an appropriate amount of time for the trub to settle, you poured more than just the liquid. after you shake, make sure to wait at least 30 minute, often it takes more like an hour, and then pour only the liquid portion into the next vessel. you will end up with almost no trub even after just doing that once.

I think you're right on with what happened. I followed the 20 minutes from the wiki, but there was very little brown beer water on top, and it was really difficult to tell where the yeast stopped and the trub started. I'll likely just keep these.

Since I don't know if the hops in the trub will affect the next batch, I may want to wash it again. I'm just wondering if by pouring too much trub in, I then discarded most of my yeast. If I wash again into a smaller half pint jar, I may wind up with much less yeast count. No big deal. I can always wash again from the beer I will brew this weekend.

 

[progmac]

I think you're right on with what happened. I followed the 20 minutes from the wiki, but there was very little brown beer water on top, and it was really difficult to tell where the yeast stopped and the trub started. I'll likely just keep these.

Since I don't know if the hops in the trub will affect the next batch, I may want to wash it again. I'm just wondering if by pouring too much trub in, I then discarded most of my yeast. If I wash again into a smaller half pint jar, I may wind up with much less yeast count. No big deal. I can always wash again from the beer I will brew this weekend.

You have plenty of yeast. Try this.

Take your largest vessel (I use a gallon jug for this) and combine both jars from the picture in there. Then to that add a quart of sterile or bottled water. Then shake just a bit and let sit until you have at least a pint of liquid at the top, with trub beneath. be patient. Decant that into your pint mason jar, then refrigerate. After sitting overnight, you should end up with a jar of beer/water with a 1/4-1/2" layer of yeast at the bottom.