Would you use this bucket?

[Brewtah1]

These are left over HDPE 7 gallon buckets that are for sale in my area.

The buckets are spotless on the inside. No gouges or grooves and have very tight fitting lids. I know the product is quite alkaline for etching concrete but that can be neutralized with an acid.
What are your thoughts?

 

[sibelman]

Doesn't say food grade, so...no.

Full disclosure: I'm not a fan of brewing in any plastic. No disrespect to others, of course! Though I certainly have used food-grade plastics over the years, I'm as much all-stainless as I can get. Silicone hose and EVAbarrier tubing aren't stainless, admittedly

 

[redrocker652002]

Just my opinion, but the product used in those buckets would turn me away. I use plastic buckets and would not have a huge problem continuing, but the chemical that was stored in those buckets would keep me from using them. Just my two cents worth, and that is about all it is worth.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

I would totally use that bucket!! measuring out grains, waste water, chilling water, spent grains, parts bin, cleaning bucket, bottle label removal bucket, almost anything you can think of - just not fermenting.

 

[mac_1103]

Do you like camping? Those buckets would work great with one of these.

 

[hotbeer]

I'd use it if I couldn't get any other. And it might be food grade. Have you looked on the bottom at all the certification stuff that is many times molded into the plastic. And I have seen that certification on the bottom of buckets that had stuff in them I'd never consider using to put my food in.

 

[Hermit]

Years back someone on this site that claimed they worked in a bucket factory said that non-food grade buckets used a 'nasty' chemical as a mold release agent. So the same two buckets from the same factory could be, or not be, food grade just based on the release agent. I don't remember them saying a good washing helped. Just a data point. Nothing more.

 

[Deadalus]

HDPE (high density polyethylene) is a 2 on the recycling triangle, but if there is a 7 inside it that means a combination of other plastics. Doesn't mean it couldn't be food safe but you just don't know. How much is it? Generic buckets are fairly cheap at the big box stores, even the food grade ones. Five gallon food grade bucket at Lowes is $7.00 by me, worth the extra $2 over the generic bucket. Fermentation buckets have gone up but still reasonable since you need the extra headspace if brewing a five gallon batch.

 

[Brewtah1]

$3 for the bucket and $.50 for a lid each. HDPE 2 on the bottom. Manufactured by Ropak Canada. Ropak has changed names a few times, but I have Ropak buckets from 15 years ago that have the exact markings that these buckets have. They claim (Ropak) that these buckets are made from virgin plastics that are FDA approved, but this doesn't mean they are food-safe. The FDA doesn't require any sort of marking on the container if it is or is not food-safe, but if the manufacturer does say it is FDA or NSL approved it must follow their guidelines.
I bought a few for testing and will provide the results tomorrow with what I learned about the buckets, chemicals stored in the buckets, Ropak, etc.

 

[wepeeler]

Food grade or no thanks.

 

[Brewtah1]

 

[wepeeler]

Why chance it when you can get a food grade bucket from Home Depot for $8?

 

[Brewtah1]

Double the price for smaller buckets that carry the same risk?

 

[wepeeler]

Double the price for smaller buckets that carry the same risk?

Then why ask?

 

[mac_1103]

Double the price for smaller buckets that carry the same no risk?

FTFY

 

[mac_1103]

That NSF certification is for the product, not the bucket, and pertains only if the product is used as intended in accordance with the application instructions. It doesn't mean that it's safe to eat concrete sealer.

 

[Cameronl]

Go to a bakery, ask for buckets they're going to discard. I went to the one in my local grocery store and walked away with several 2.5-3 gallon-ish buckets with lids and a couple of 5 gallon buckets and lids. All food grade. Some had frosting, so needed a good cleaning, but all great stuff.

 

[Broken Crow]

If the product in the bucket has begun to react with the plastic, then subsequent use has a starting point of reactivity that could carry on. In the nineties, my LHBS opened for business across the street a few doors down from my dad's shop on one of the towns main drags and locally, beer prices were at an all time high. Quite a few in the neighborhood took to homebrewing and many reused buckets that had originally contained a variety of things. I was initially put off the idea of homebrewing because many of the beers given to me by the guys using these buckets had a distinct plastic taste.
Seriously; get a new unused bucket that hasn't possibly been compromised.

 

[wdavis2003]

I'll Cashapp you $5 bucks so you don't have to risk your health

 

[hotbeer]

Yes the NSF in your picture is for the contents. And that shows the product inside can be used as a material for things that come in contact with drinking water.

Look at the bottom of the bucket and see what's molded into it. Some might have BPA free and a food safe message. However even if it's just got HPDE below the recycling triangle with a 2 inside, then it's made of a material that is considered food safe.

What Plastic Numbers Are Safe for Food Storage? Safe plastic numbers include 2, 4, and 5. These containers can store food without any toxic chemicals infiltrating. These include the materials HDPE, LDPE, and PP.

https://www.palmetto-industries.com/safe-food-grade-plastic/#:~:text=devices from here.-,What Plastic Numbers Are Safe for Food Storage?,HDPE, LDPE, and PP.

If everyone was as safe with everything else as they are wanting to be with a bucket for beer, then they really should consider not driving and many other risky habits. Such as drinking alcoholic beverages.

 

[mac_1103]

Look at the bottom of the bucket and see what's molded into it. Some might have BPA free and a food safe message.

FWIW, food safe buckets that I've seen or bought at big box retailers have stickers that say they're BPA-free, but nothing actually molded into the plastic.

 

[hotbeer]

FWIW, food safe buckets that I've seen or bought at big box retailers have stickers that say they're BPA-free, but nothing actually molded into the plastic.

Have you bought every bucket out there that was ever made? And looked on the bottom?

I did use the terms "might" and "some".

 

[Brewtah1]

FTFY

There's still risk of the bucket getting contaminated during manufacturing, transportation, or at the hardware store.
EDIT: I was assuming you meant something like a Homer bucket as I have seen many times. I didn't know hardware stores sold explicitly food safe buckets until today. Much less likely to be contaminated at the store than one of the store's brand of bucket and I probably use them also.

 

[Brewtah1]

Then why ask?

I wouldn't use buckets from a hardware store for my brew. I bought some buckets to test with. I will use the buckets for potted plants or wood scraps when I'm done with them.

 

[mac_1103]

I did use the terms "might" and "some"

And I used "FWIW" and said "the ones I've seen or bought." How do you get from that to "every bucket out there"? But again, FWIW, I have looked at the bottoms of the one's I've seen and bought.

 

[hotbeer]

And I used "FWIW" and said "the ones I've seen or bought." How do you get from that to "every bucket out there"? But again, FWIW, I have looked at the bottoms of the one's I've seen and bought.

Then I'm not sure why you even quoted me in the statement. That tends to make me think you were saying my statement was wrong.

 

[Brewtah1]

Go to a bakery, ask for buckets they're going to discard. I went to the one in my local grocery store and walked away with several 2.5-3 gallon-ish buckets with lids and a couple of 5 gallon buckets and lids. All food grade. Some had frosting, so needed a good cleaning, but all great stuff.

This is a good idea, but it doesn't mean the buckets are rated for food contact either. I've seen quite a few food service containers that say they are not rated for food contact and the food that comes with them are in bags so the food does not touch the container.

 

[mac_1103]

That tends to make me think you were saying my statement was wrong.

Nope. Just trying to add to it.

 

[redrocker652002]

Why chance it when you can get a food grade bucket from Home Depot for $8?

For the win!!!!!!!!!

 

[Brewtah1]

I wanted to learn more because I feel like I should be able to identify which plastics are safe and why, and this lead me down a rabbit hole. Just looking at the bucket told me I had 3 questions that needed answers:

1. The chemicals in the bags in the container
2. The plastic and it's porosity
3. Neutralize the pH

I did some research and found the Safety Data Sheet for the Admix C-500. It is non-toxic and contains Portland cement, silica sand, and calcium dihydroxide. All 3 of these things are harmful if inhaled in large amounts and can cause GI upset if swallowed. Portland cement and calcium dihydroxide are both very alkaline with a pH of 12-13 each, but can be neutralized with a strong acid. By neutralizing the pH with Star San, the byproducts are water and salts. The salts are calcium phosphates and are very common in food products. The rest of the active chemicals catalyze when in contact with water so I believe there's nothing else to do besides not breath in the bucket and learn more about the plastic.

The HDPE plastic symbol means there's a potential for it to be food safe. HDPE is one of the best plastics for chemical and food safety as they are not porous, not reactive, heat resistant, and durable. HDPE can degrade over time while in contact with alkaline or acids, but these have to be quite extreme in pH, over extended periods of time, and at temperatures favorable to the chemical interactivity. Seeing that the product label is from the last 6 months I'm not worried about the permeability or reactivity of HDPE in this scenario.

I ran some tests on the buckets with some pH strips and some control groups. The product, and the inside and outside of the buckets are around 10 pH where any residue can be found. I found that simply spraying the buckets with water reduced the pH from about 10 to about 7. The water I used was about 6 pH so more testing was needed. I used Star San (1 oz to 5 gallons) at 1:1 in the next bucket and the pH went from about 10 to about 4, as to be expected. I tried testing seconds after spraying Star San and waiting for it to dry, and both neutralized the pH on the surface.
In the end, I sacrificed 1.3 ounces of Star San to match the 6.54 gallons that the bucket could hold. Once the bucket was overflowing I immediately dumped it out and tested it. It was completely neutralized from top to bottom despite the top only having a few seconds of contact with the water. I think the pH problem and chemical problem are solved with brewhouse materials and standards of cleaning.

TL: DR My limited research says the HDPE buckets can be food safe as long as it is cleaned and sanitized properly. As for me, I will run more tests and do much more research before using them for anything with food or plants.