Wort vs beer

[Brewday2]

I've tried looking this up with no luck. At what point does the correct terminology change from "wort" to "beer"? Is it as soon as yeast is pitched? After fermentation?

 

[tracer bullet]

After fermentation

^^^

 

[mac_1103]

If you can't see into your fermenter, then it's like a Schrodinger box - what's inside is both wort and beer until you open it up and find out.

 

[day_trippr]

I would say when the yeast is pitched...

Cheers!

 

[tracer bullet]

I would say when the yeast is pitched...

Cheers!

Nah Still wort. Later it becomes a mix of wort and beer, then it becomes beer!

 

[wepeeler]

It's technically beer the moment you pitch the yeast. All the ingredients are in the fermenter = beer. It's just that fermentation isn't complete.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Well at that point it's NA beer, once fermentation happens then you have real beer.

 

[keystonehb]

I would say when the yeast is pitched...

Cheers!

From a legal standpoint I was always told this was the correct answer

 

[E. coli]

I've tried looking this up with no luck. At what point does the correct terminology change from "wort" to "beer"? Is it as soon as yeast is pitched? After fermentation?

I had this same question on Sunday when I was brewing! My dad asked me if it's still wort after the boil to which I simply shrugged. Thanks for asking!

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

It's technically beer the moment you pitch the yeast. All the ingredients are in the fermenter = beer. It's just that fermentation isn't complete.

That's when it is also legally considered beer in the US. If you have ever been at a wort rally in a brewery, the yeast is pitched when you get home.

 

[sibelman]

I don't see this as a legal question.

To me, the kettle holds wort before, during and after boil. Then fermentation and carbonation happen. Finally, it's beer. Until it's fermented and carbonated, it just ain't really beer yet.

 

[tracer bullet]

I don't see this as a legal question.

Or, it's both. So we know the legal answer.

Curious what others think from say a chemistry or some other standpoint?

 

[sibelman]

Or, it's both. So we know the legal answer.

Curious what others think from say a chemistry or some other standpoint?

No actual argument, just different ways to see the question. Law, chemistry, linguistics?

Merriam-Webster says beer is "a carbonated, fermented alcoholic beverage that is usually made from malted cereal grain (especially barley), is flavored with hops, and typically contains less than a 5% alcohol content." For what that's worth.

My personal answer, revised, is that wort becomes beer when it's something I might want to drink. Flat and/or room temperature? Not my beer!

 

[Yesfan]

If it gets you drunk, it's beer.

If it gives you diabetes, it's wort.......

 

[worlddivides]

Since wort is "unfermented," it becomes beer when fermentation has ended. So technically once you pitch yeast, it's still wort, but as the wort starts fermenting it, you could see it as "wort in the process of becoming beer" (or even as a mixture of wort and beer). Once fermentation is done (or at least mostly done), it's beer.

 

[shoengine]

I couldn't tell you what beer or wort is, but I know it when I see it.

 

[jdauria]

My LHBS owner had this argument with town officials when he wanted to host Big Brew Day for the first time and had to make sure it was OK. They argued that the shop did not have a brewery license and people would be making beer on site. He had to explain that all they were making was sugar water (wort) and that it wasn't beer until they pitched the yeast (at home). They finally got it...of course most of us pitched yeast on site plus we all had coolers of homebrew.

 

[Climb]

I think we need a term for that in between state.

 

[hottpeper13]

Like prevening?

 

[Broken Crow]

"Beer! Brew it Here!" emblazoned in 6' letters in the window of my LHBS from their opening in the 90's pretty much described their business model with the legal caveat: The customer must pitch the yeast. In Ontario, alcohol laws of the time deemed the brewer to be the one who initiates fermentation under the premise that it is not beer until fermetation has been initiated, thus producing wort did not require a brewery license. Dunno if that helps this converstion from the brewers perspective, but in these parts, that has been (and still is) the legal view.

 

[mac_1103]

I think we need a term for that in between state.

Weer? Woer? Beert? Bert? I think I've only ever known one Bert. He wasn't much of a beer drinker.

Of course, there's always "fermentation."

 

[Brewer Mike]

My take is, it's not combining the ingredients that makes it beer. It's the fermentation process. When you pitch the yeast, you're at 100% wort, 0% beer. As fermentation occurs, you progress to 100% beer, 0% wort (or near 100%/0%).

 

[FloppyKnockers]

From a legal standpoint I was always told this was the correct answer

This... There has to be a definitive line. Much like pizza stops being pizza once the first piece of pineapple is applied. Then it's called trash.

 

[shoengine]

This... There has to be a definitive line. Much like pizza stops being pizza once the first piece of pineapple is applied. Then it's called trash.

Shots fired!

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I've tried looking this up with no luck. At what point does the correct terminology change from "wort" to "beer"? Is it as soon as yeast is pitched? After fermentation?

Everyone has a different opinion, and mine is just that.

Once the added yeast is producing alcohol it's beer. Until that moment it's wort.

In all honesty, when I pour a pint it better be beer!

 

[odie]

"legal definitions" often have nothing to do with reality...

As soon as the first yeast actually poops out any alcohol, it's beer...very very light beer, but beer.

 

[odie]

This... There has to be a definitive line. Much like pizza stops being pizza once the first piece of pineapple is applied. Then it's called trash.

truth

 

[bestcoast]

This... There has to be a definitive line. Much like pizza stops being pizza once the first piece of pineapple is applied. Then it's called trash.

As a lawyer, I'll be the first to say, please don't let our definitions decide anything for you unless what you're deciding is whether or not you need a liquor license...

 

[madscientist451]

It's technically beer the moment you pitch the yeast. All the ingredients are in the fermenter = beer. It's just that fermentation isn't complete.

Unfermented wort with yeast is…..unfermented wort, not beer. There’s always some lag time before the yeast gets going. After fermentation starts, you have partially Unfermented wort and a portion of beer as well. If you want to call THAT low ABV beer, you’d technically be correct.

 

[sibelman]

What's inside a cocoon: caterpillar or butterfly? In an oven: dough or bread?

 

[FloppyKnockers]

What's inside a cocoon: caterpillar or butterfly? In an oven: dough or bread?

That's easy... Chrysalis and bread dough.

Law aside, maybe the personal distinction can be made that when the alcohol reaches a level at or above non-alcoholic beer (.5%) it an be called beer?

 

[Broothru]

It's technically beer the moment you pitch the yeast. All the ingredients are in the fermenter = beer. It's just that fermentation isn't complete.

Then all the ingredients (in this case, ethanol) are not in the fermenter. Therefore, by you definition, it would not yet be beer.

 

[day_trippr]

Ethanol is not an ingredient. One does not add alcohol to make beer. It's a byproduct...

Cheers!

 

[wepeeler]

Unfermented wort with yeast is…..unfermented wort, not beer. There’s always some lag time before the yeast gets going. After fermentation starts, you have partially Unfermented wort and a portion of beer as well. If you want to call THAT low ABV beer, you’d technically be correct.

BUT...unfermented wort with yeast is not just wort. (I have no horse in this race. It's just interesting to see the discussion.)

Then all the ingredients (in this case, ethanol) are not in the fermenter. Therefore, by you definition, it would not yet be beer.

Ethanol is not an ingredient, it's a byproduct of fermentation

 

[Broothru]

BUT...unfermented wort with yeast is not just wort. (I have no horse in this race. It's just interesting to see the discussion.)

Ethanol is not an ingredient, it's a byproduct of fermentation

Yeah, you got me there…

 

[Halfakneecap]

If you can't see into your fermenter, then it's like a Schrodinger box - what's inside is both wort and beer until you open it up and find out.

See also, the Uncertainty Principle

 

[mac_1103]

See also, the Uncertainty Principle

Hmm... I already know the exact position of the wort/beer and I really don't care about its momentum.

 

[An Ankoù]

"legal definitions" often have nothing to do with reality...

As soon as the first yeast actually poops out any alcohol, it's beer...very very light beer, but beer.

I agree with you.
If it were not so, we'd have some beers that never really become beer such as those which use a yeast that doesn't ferment maltotriose, or quite dry beers that could contain more alcohol if we'd used a diastaticus type yeast.
The idea that a mixture that still has the potential to contain more alcohol isn't yet beer doesn't make much sense.

 

[madscientist451]

What's inside a cocoon: caterpillar or butterfly? In an oven: dough or bread?

“Everyone has his own reality in which, if one is not too cautious, timid or frightened, one swims. This is the only reality there is.”​

― Henry Miller, Stand Still Like the Hummingbird

Something to ponder....maybe while sipping one of those Barleywines I've been saving for a few years....

 

[Snuffy]

If fermentation begins spontaneously, who is responsible?