Wort chiller/ plate chiller woes.

[slayer021175666]

Hi.
I have this plat chiller:
Pro Flow Dynamics PC-050-30 - Wort Chiller - 30 Plates | BeverageFactory.com
I used it by gravity only-no pump.
5 gallons of water in the boil.
Water from my faucet is 72 farenheit.
I cranked to water to full flow and had to adjust the wort (just boiling water for this test) way down to hit any reasonble pitching temp at all. Still, at the end of the run, I wound up with 5 gallon bucket of wort at 80 degrees in 25 minutes. I'm not impressed! That would be 50 minutes for my normal 10 gal batches! Tried turning it sideways. Tried turning it straight up. No avail. Is my incoming water too hot or??? Open to suggestions or any kind of reasoning.
Thanks, To All.

 

[Stonehenge360]

Sounds like you are not doing anything wrong. The closer your tap water temp is to your desired temp, the harder it will be to cool. Efficiency in a heat exchanger is based on the temperature differential of the two liquids. Obviously you also can never get cooler than your tap water.
Your best bet would be to put a copper coil in an ice bath before the plate chiller to cool down the tap water further.

 

[day_trippr]

Agreed, any chiller's performance is affected by the source cooling water temperature. In this case 72°F set the best-case output, and I would have totally tried the same max water flow/min wort flow and hope for the best.

The alternative is to recirculate the PC output until the wort gets within one-last-pass through the PC to get closer to that 72°F...

Cheers!

 

[slayer021175666]

Thanks Guys.
So, just pump it through the PC and back into the kettle. Then, send it through the PC again and out to the fermenter?
Do you think this would cut the time involved since I could probably just pump it full blast or???

 

[day_trippr]

Honestly don't know the answer to that question - I'm a ones and zeroes guy, you need a thermodynamics guy - or at least someone handy with physics
But, for sure it would allow you to get closer to pitching temperature...

Cheers!

 

[Stonehenge360]

It would let you get closer to pitching temp but it would not change the time it takes at all. Temp change per minute is directly related to the inlet and outlet temperatures of both the cooling flow and the wort. The only way to improve your efficiency (temp change per minute) is to decrease your cold water temp

 

[BrentJ]

Another variable not mentioned was the liquids should flow counter to each other not parallel through the plate chiller. Not sure if your plate chiller was already labeled this way or not. So water in and wort out on the same ends of the chiller. This is more efficient setup. Also your going to need to be careful with hop trub plugging plate chiller as the passes between plates are very small. I use a hanging hop basket in my BK to solve this issue. Downside is some minor loss in hop efficiency but upside is almost no wort loss in BK due to the hop trub.

 

[Vale71]

Thanks Guys.
So, just pump it through the PC and back into the kettle. Then, send it through the PC again and out to the fermenter?
Do you think this would cut the time involved since I could probably just pump it full blast or???

No, it will increase the time and the water consumption as well.

Did you connect the water and wort correctly in a counterflow configuration? So water in from side and out the other and the wort the opposite way around? Incorrect connections are a common mistake. It's happen to me when I was distracted a couple of times and it really puts a dent in a counterflow chiller's performance like nothing else.

 

[pigroaster]

I agree with hooking it up correctly. You could put water in a plastic barrel and add ice and use a sump pump to move water through.

 

[zzz-cd101]

I got tired of that same situation, so I filled a 55-gal barrel with water, bit the bullet and bought a $40 sump pump and set the barrel up in my fermentation room. I circulate the water which is usually around 55 degrees and come out with perfectly pitchable wort in about 10 minutes. It uses essentially no water now, and never gives me a problem.

 

[slayer021175666]

Ok. I did have it connected correctly. Quite surprised to find my Idaho water is 72 degrees. Never measured it before and I would have thought it'd be way colder. Anyway, I guess I could pump ice water through it. How much ice are we talking, though? Would what is in my refrigerator ice maker bin be enough? I'm wondering if the ground water here is just warm from the summer and it will cool down in the winter. Still, that doesn't help when summer comes around again.

 

[EDF713]

I use an immersion chiller, so not the same, but I use tap water until it's around 120, then pump ice water from a cooler with a harbor freight pump directly through it. I harvest ice from my ice maker for a few days to get about 10-20 lb of ice. This gets me to the low 60s usually. I've gotten it to the low 50s with more ice in cooler months. BTW, I'd take 72 groundwater, ours is over 80 in the summer, probably mid 70s now.

 

[slayer021175666]

I have no dedicated rooms. I have to set up in the kitchen and tear it all down when I'm done. It's a heck of a lot of trips from the storage room and back. I suppose I could set a barrel outside and run hoses inside to chill with. It has been freezing in the night here with average 60 degrees in the days. That's a far cry better than my 72 degree tap water! I could even add some anti-freeze to it. I hate to get my and more complicated, though. I guess whatever I have to do is what I have to do, though.

 

[slayer021175666]

Ahh. never though of collecting ice. Wondering how much is enough to make the difference I need. I'd like to pitch at 72 and the test I did was only 5 gallons. I actually brew 10 at a time.

 

[Nate R]

Ahh. never though of collecting ice. Wondering how much is enough to make the difference I need. I'd like to pitch at 72 and the test I did was only 5 gallons. I actually brew 10 at a time.

Also... if you have freezer space, you can fill empty milk jugs (or water bottles, 2 or 1 liter soda bottles, etc.) And freeze them. Then you just make an ice water bath with them- get enough and you never have to mess with ice again!!
(I did this for my fermenter before i bought the bullet and went glycol. Hang out in this "hobby" enough and it will get you!).

 

[Alex4mula]

Your chiller may be too small and your water is definitely too hot. Also, I don't understand why your water is coming so warm living up north. But bottom line is as suggested you will need to find a source of colder water to pass through it. Also as mentioned make sure the hoses are connected properly. If not the efficiency drops a LOT. Ask me how I know. I have a Dudda diesel 20 plate 18" chiller which may be a little overkill but works super. In winter my water (Michigan) gest to like 46°F and I chill 5gal from 212F to anything above 60F (never tried lower but I bet would be similar) in less than 3minutes. In summer the water gets to 66°F and I can chill the same to 68-69°F closing the pump output but takes me about 8-10min.

 

[rmchair]

They should be called plate de-heaters rather than chillers.

My tap water is 74. I hook chiller up and circulate while boiling to sanitize, then turn on hose until the boil pot gets cool, then send to fermenter. Works good. Then I do my second, darker beer without draining.

 

[IslandLizard]

I have a similar size plate chiller, 30 plates, from Duda Diesel. I'm only doing 5 gallon batches anymore, but have successfully chilled 10 gallon batches with it, allowing for extra time.
Your chiller may be a little undersized for 10 gallons, but it should be doable.

It also took me a few years to get the hang of it...

For a 5 gallon batch it takes me about 30-40 minutes in total to get it down to pitching temps, around 68F.
The first 80-100 degree drop from 200F to 120-100F is fast, using recirculation back to the kettle. After that it becomes a slow, somewhat tedious process.

I now use a copper coil pre-chiller in a bucket filled with ice and water to bring the wort down the last 30-50 degrees. First I recirculate the wort back to the kettle. Once the wort from the chiller gets within 20-30F from the tap water, it becomes a single pass to the fermenter. I monitor the wort output temp, by means of a thermometer in the exit port assembly.

Once the temp of the exiting chilling water nears the tap water temp, I stop using tap water and start recirculating the chilling back to the ice bucket with a small pump. That saves some water.

Are you containing your hops in any way, so they aren't being sent through the plate chiller? They can plug it up in no time, killing your throughput.

Not sure why your domestic water is so warm, does it stay that warm after a few gallons have run through?
If the piping goes through the house, and the water sits in it it will warm up, but once that gallon has flushed through, it should be fairly cool, especially in cooler weather. Check the water temp coming from an outside spigot.

You sure you're not inadvertently using partially hot/warm water mixed in through your faucet?

 

[slayer021175666]

I have a hop spider. There is a possibility that I had a bit of hot water running and didn't realize it.
I'll test it again and post the result.

 

[LittleRiver]

... immersion chiller...tap water until it's around 120, then pump ice water from a cooler.... about 10-20 lb of ice. This gets me to the low 60s...

That pretty well describes my chilling rig. I use a little water transfer pump to recirculate the chilling water, first from a 5gal bucket of tap water. The resulting hot water gets saved for use as wash water during cleanup. Then I move the hoses to a cooler filled with 20lb of ice and 5gal of water. The resulting lukewarm water gets used for rinsing at cleanup. It's a system that works really well, reaching pitching temp is never a problem. It's also very water efficient.

My last two brews (a stout and an IPA) I've experimented with no chill. I sealed up the kettle/lid joint with shrink wrap and left it overnight. Both beers came out great.

My chilling rig will probably start gathering some dust...

 

[Golddiggie]

Hop spider isn't a factor. I've used one for many brews. I do recirculate the wort through the chiller, into the boil keggle, until the wort out of the chiller is pretty much where I want it to be. I know this due to temperature sensors both at the wort out (chiller side) and inside the boil keggle.

I have a 40 plate, ~12" wide, chiller from Duda Diesel (bought almost a decade ago now). With the water temp in NH being sub 60F for most of the year (especially on well water), I can chill almost 8 gallons of boiling hot wort to pitch temp in about 8 minutes with the method I listed. I typically have to reduce the chilling water flow towards the end or I'll chill too far.

I made the switch from an immersion chiller when I couldn't get even 5 gallon batches to chill in less than 30 minutes (was brewing in MA at the time, so chill water was close to the same temp).

I have my chiller mounted to my brew stand on it's long edge, ports facing me. I've run it standing up before as well (before using the brew stand) and that didn't make any difference for chill speed/time.

For the OP, if your chiller is the normal/short model, you might want to get the larger one if your batch sizes are normally 10 gallons. I don't think i've ever heard of anyone complaining about their chiller being too large, or chilling too fast.

 

[BigDave1303]

As someone already mentioned, you could put a coil in-line between your incoming mains water & your chiller.
I use an immersion chiller but the pre-chill coil would still work with a plate chiller.

I replied to another post a few days ago with this-

I have made my own IC using 2 coils of 10m long 10mm copper tube (see pic) which go into the wort 15mins before the end of boil to sterilise.
I also attach another coil in the summer when mains water is warmer, this goes in the sink as shown which I fill with cold water & freezer blocks to further chill the incoming water. Recapture the first few minutes of exit water (very hot) for cleaning.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...your-wort.686280/#lg=attachment705264&slide=0