WLP940 Substitute

[dcn]

Hi there, after buying grain and hops from my LHBS their expected White Labs order hasn’t arrived this week. I’m planning on brewing this recipe this weekend:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/mexican-lager.254955


But I can’t get any WLP940. Based on the ingredients is there anything close I can use for yeast so I’m able to brew this weekend? Trying to create something very light for summer. Also if it’s helpful for narrowing down a substitute (other than missing WLP940) I have pretty good local access to a bunch of other Wyeast/White Labs/Safale/Saflager stuff. Thanks.

 

[IslandLizard]

Look at this chart for inspiration:
https://www.whitelabs.com/sites/default/files/1.23.19 White Labs - Beer Matrix Poster.pdf

Now... when using any liquid yeast, you really, really need to make a large yeast starter first.
A ~3-5 liter stirred starter is recommended for a 5 gallon Lager batch, followed by a thorough cold crash and decanted before pitching. If you just pitch one sleeve of liquid yeast, you are grossly underpitching, which may cause problems.
I'd say don't brew that lager this weekend unless you want to pitch a dry yeast. Now strain selection in dry yeasts is a lot smaller. Not even sure there even is a dry Vienna Lager/Mexican Lager strain.

Have you used liquid yeast before?
Have you brewed lagers before?
Do you have a way to ferment at 50-55F, then "lager" for a few weeks at near freezing temps?
Those factors will make much more difference than the subtle difference in strain selection.

 

[dcn]

I’m pretty well set up for temp control yes. Also (and this isn’t to argue but to just say yes I’ve done lagers) I made Jamils Pilsner a few weeks back with its required Wyeast 2001. That was the first AG lager I’ve made, but I’ve made 2-3 lagers with rehydrated dry S-23 back when I was doing pre made wort kits. OG and FG were good in spite of the single smack pack of 2001, but I think those negate the need for a starter by design.

The Pilsner is 9 days into carbonating/lagering in my keezer now. I brewed using David Heaths temp schedule, something like “10C until at least 50% fermented, 4-8 days, then add 1C/Day until 18C. When gravity is stable cool down to 4-5C and hold 1-3 days.”

Anyway the Pilsner is faaaaaaaantastic based on the sample I tried when I was kegging it.

Based on your info I think I’ll take a look at that link and decide if I want to wait (the small bit of hops for this recipe are in the fridge vacuum packed) or go with a dry yeast. Thanks very much for the input, I’ve only ever done Wyeast stuff and not White Labs so I think you saved me from underpitching big time.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

WLP802 might be a good choice. The closest yeast I know of in terms of flavor would be TYB Dark Franconian, but I'd think that any saaz variant would work.

 

[dcn]

Thanks folks. I went with Wyeast 2007. I’d rather not start with starters just yet.

 

[govner1]

If you’re not going to do a starter you’ll probably need three packs of 2007 or any other lager yeast.

 

[isomerization]

I don’t think the yeast character is what drives a Mexican lager. Isn’t it more corn-based flavor profile, with a hint of darker base malt?

If you’re avoiding starters, I’d used w34/70 and pitch a couple packets.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

I don’t think the yeast character is what drives a Mexican lager. Isn’t it more corn-based flavor profile, with a hint of darker base malt?

If you’re avoiding starters, I’d used w34/70 and pitch a couple packets.

Correct! Mexican lagers basically have no yeast character at all. 34/70 might not be a bad idea, though I'm not sure it's clean enough. Either way it'll make good beer [emoji482]

 

[dcn]

Well it’s in the fridge fermenting now so we will see what Frankenstein thing I’ve created. A side question if anyone has a immersion chiller - mine had what I think was plain old beer line on it and it’s been a nightmare, leaking/spraying various amounts of tap water into 3 of my brews.

Today I went to Home Depot and got much heavier lines and clamped them with pinch clamps. Do these things typically come with temperature tolerant water lines? My home brew shop is awesome and I’m kind of surprised they sold a chiller with those lines given they couldn’t possibly tolerate near boiling water.

 

[govner1]

I use hi-temp silicone tubing and attach with Oetiker clamps for a good seal.

 

[dcn]

Ah good call on the silicone. Those Oeteker clamps are awesome but that’s good insurance, thanks I might do that too.

 

[dmtaylor]

I think the closest strain might be WLP830 or Wyeast 2124. But 2007 will probably work okay.

You really should be making a starter.

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks folks. I went with Wyeast 2007. I’d rather not start with starters just yet.

Both Wyeast and White Labs yeast packs nominally contain 100 billion cells at their packaging date. Yeast viability goes downhill from there on.

Rarely does one get a pack of yeast that's younger than 1 month, 2-4 months old is way more common, while 4-6 months old yeast is more common than yeast that's younger than 1 month. Then handling procedures getting the yeast from the manufacturer to the brew store don't improve viability either. For many beers 100 billion cells is still skimpy

Due to their new Purepitch packaging process White Labs sleeves remain actually much more viable than WYeast activator packs, especially during the first 3 months, and of better overall health through their whole packaged life, under the same storage conditions. The activator (nutrient bubble) in WYeast smack packs helps with prepping the leftover viable cells for pitching, but it's not going to revive dead cells.

A vitality starter, 4 hours on a stir plate, or swirling as often as possible when just left on the counter in a large covered jar, with a liter of starter wort while you're brewing is the minimum you could do to ensure viability and "condition" the yeast before the pitch. It may even grow some more cells, and the cells you pitch are in much better shape than straight from a pack.

But, especially with older yeast, say older than 3-4 months, making full size starters a few days to a week ahead of brewday is pretty much mandatory. As a nice bonus you can grow a little more yeast while you're at it, and save it for your next starter. And so on.
So I'd start looking into making starters routinely, as part of your brewing process. Your beer will thank you.

Check out this yeast calculator for an easy illustration of (liquid) yeast viability, pitch rates, and what size starters are needed to grow the required cells counts. There is ad hoc information under the "?" marks for what the settings (numbers) mean. It may be an eye opener.

 

[govner1]

Bargain Fittings has a “clear” hi temp silicone tubing at good prices.
It’s really more translucent than clear but it makes it easier to see liquid flow.

 

[IslandLizard]

Bargain Fittings has a “clear” hi temp silicone tubing at good prices.
It’s really more translucent than clear but it makes it easier to see liquid flow.

When the input water pressure is high, like from a garden hose spigot in your driveway, just make sure there is nothing blocking flow or even a regulating valve behind any silicone hoses in those applications. They can't withstand much pressure (up to 10-15 psi maybe?). They balloon first, then burst.

[Edited for clarity on high pressure input applications]

 

[govner1]

Good advice. I use silicone tubing when pumping between my HLT & MLT, from my BK to my chiller and back to the BK for whirlpooling. As soon as I have time I’ll use for recirculation through a HERMS.
No restrictions or problems in 8+ years. It’s also easy to clean.

 

[dcn]

Thanks all. Very helpful advice. I need to get/make a stir plate eventually

 

[dmtaylor]

Thanks all. Very helpful advice. I need to get/make a stir plate eventually

No, actually you don't.

 

[dcn]

Well something for making starters anyway. Haven’t done the research yet. Can you tell?

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks all. Very helpful advice. I need to get/make a stir plate eventually

No, actually you don't.

What alternatives are you proposing?

 

[dmtaylor]

What alternatives are you proposing?

Wise men once discussed "shaken not stirred" methodology at length on numerous threads. I'll just give you the search results link for anyone interested to look into. Personally I'm more of a slacker and don't follow any "official" rules for this, just shake once in a while and be done with it.

https://www.homebrewersassociation....wdzu874fP2OK3IdtxPF94fl-OP7fbl8Xzf9-38H29RqpY.

 

[IslandLizard]

Wise men once discussed "shaken not stirred" methodology at length on numerous threads. I'll just give you the search results link for anyone interested to look into. Personally I'm more of a slacker and don't follow any "official" rules for this, just shake once in a while and be done with it.

That surely is a good alternative.
Having 2 orbital shakers and 2 stir plates, I've never had to need to do it myself, but I would otherwise.

All it takes is a gallon jug with a screw cap, 1 liter of 1.040 wort, and a sleeve/pack of liquid yeast. Efficient propagation here hinges on fierce shaking to create as much foam as possible, repeating as often as you can. I wonder if saturating the headspace with pure O2 would make it even better/quicker. I dose my starters with O2 before they go on the shaker or stir plate. I think it helps speeding up the process.