WLP644 -Brett B Trois

[mhenry41h]

I'm starting to get some Brett-essence now at 4.5 weeks in the Carboy. It doesn't smell quite as "aspirin-y" as traditional Brett B but I can notice it. I'm expecting a soft funk. I'm getting excited.

 

[Coff]

Took a reading last night at at 23 days primary, its at 1.010 and still quite cloudy. Stone fruit aromas as others have been noticing with just a hint of spice on the back of the tongue, no noticeable funk however. Like others have said, if this beer develops a touch of funk it could be great. As of now it is quite good and I think will develop in the bottle well over time.

The other half of this wort got WLP 565 Saison I and is bone dry, 1.003, so I think the trois still has some to go yet albeit I ramped the Saison I to 82 over a week so I might be drying that beer out significantly more.

I plan to primary the Trois for ~6 weeks in hopes it attenuates a bit more and clears up. I may hit it with gelatin a few days before bottling to help it out. I refilled my vial from my starter so I wont have to wash any of the yeast in the fermenter.

This beer has dropped clear and looks to be completely finished at 1.010 at ~5 weeks. I tasted it very quickly, was a little more bitter than I remembered, still fruity however, no noticeable brett funk.

I still plan to wait till the 6 week mark to bottle it but thats mostly because I have 10 gallons of sour beer to bottle first. I havent committed to kegging these brett beers just yet.

 

[nofootbreak]

At 14 days in primary, my wlp 585 half of the wort got down to 1.006 and tastes great. I want to bottle this soon. Half clean, half dosed in the bottle with brett b trois, brett l and maybe some brett c so I can compare the 4 different outcomes. Ill give this a week or so longer to get the brett starters ready by bottling and a 3 day dry hop with styrian goldings.

The 3726/Brett trois half is at 1.012. Didnt expect it to be quite so high, but I suppose that leaves plenty for the brett to keep working with. Definitely some brett character in there already. Fruity, but with a slight peppery phenolic funk from the brett. I pitched the sacch and brett at the same time. One smack pack, and one ~90ml slurry of brett trois.

 

[bogwart]

I brewed the Chad Yakobson farmhouse brett from Zymurgy magazine 14 days ago. The OG was 1.054 and it has dropped to 1.010. So far, it smells and tastes very similar to a traditional saison and has very little brett character. So far, I haven't seen much differentiation in behavior from a traditional Saccharomyces strain (other than it's still active at 14 days). Like most have said, it hasn't cleared out completely but that should happen within the next few weeks.

 

[barrooze]

Here's my Saison-Brett using this strain as a secondary ferment. The Brett character is mild but definitely present. It needs a couple more months in the bottle to get great. The head looks good in the picture but the CO2 hasn't really dissolved in to the liquid yet.

Hey, Raven! Any chance on sharing the recipe? I love Boulevard's saison-Brett. Is yours similar at all?

 

[barrooze]

I brewed the Chad Yakobson farmhouse brett from Zymurgy magazine 14 days ago. The OG was 1.054 and it has dropped to 1.010. So far, it smells and tastes very similar to a traditional saison and has very little brett character. So far, I haven't seen much differentiation in behavior from a traditional Saccharomyces strain (other than it's still active at 14 days). Like most have said, it hasn't cleared out completely but that should happen within the next few weeks.

Please keep us updated! I'm planning on brewing that farmhouse recipe after I brew the Belgian White recipe (preparation for the next BBBB!). I didn't get my hands on the Trois but will brew them both with a combo of Brux and Lamb.

 

[kingwood-kid]

Please keep us updated! I'm planning on brewing that farmhouse recipe after I brew the Belgian White recipe (preparation for the next BBBB!). I didn't get my hands on the Trois but will brew them both with a combo of Brux and Lamb.

Defalcos had the Trois in stock when I went there Saturday. E-mail or call them, and they'll hold it for you.

 

[barrooze]

Defalcos had the Trois in stock when I went there Saturday. E-mail or call them, and they'll hold it for you.

Thanks for the heads up, Kingwood! I might be up in the area tomorrow. I'll definitely ask for a vial to go in hold for me. A perfect excuse to finally check out the new store.

 

[Ravenshead]

Hey, Raven! Any chance on sharing the recipe? I love Boulevard's saison-Brett. Is yours similar at all?

Sure, Schaez and I brewed it along with another friend. It's a little fruitier than Boulevard's but that may just be because mine finished a little high (1.006). It came out really nice just the same.

58% Pils
20% White Wheat
10% Munich (10 SRM)
4% Aromatic
8% white sugar added just after high Kraizen

For 5.5 gallons:
.71 oz Magnum @ 60
.63 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh @ 10
seeds of paradise (I think we used 4 oz for fifteen gallons because that was all we had)

Wyeast 1214 Belgian Ale

I added the Brett after the first yeast ceased visible activity. I don't think Schaez has added his yet and it's been months. I bet his is drier in the end.

Edit: Sorry to others that I took so long to post the recipe, I hadn't realized there were requests.

Also, I did eventually get a pellicle from this strain but it took a month or so to form. I also dumped some of it into a stuck Triple and wound up with a really sour (in a good way) beer. Completely different flavors than the Saison.

 

[mhenry41h]

A super fruity and elegant funk is in the aroma today. It will be 6 weeks in the carboy and it's finally hit. The effects of this strain in primary as a 100% fermentation has been nicely documented. I think it's good to note that it's use in a mixed fermentation has been very positive. If you seek a nice and delicate touch of Brett funk, I recommend this approach. My guess is that using it at bottling will take some time to develop. Just my take...

 

[bogwart]

Please keep us updated! I'm planning on brewing that farmhouse recipe after I brew the Belgian White recipe (preparation for the next BBBB!). I didn't get my hands on the Trois but will brew them both with a combo of Brux and Lamb.

Sure can. I was planning on rinsing the yeast and using it for other projects. I'd be more than happy to share some of it with you if you'd like. Just my two cents: like others said earlier in the post...it needs to be propped up. I was amazed at how little yeast was in the vial from WL. I propped mine up over two weeks and had a fast and vigorous fermentation.

 

[smokinghole]

I also made the brett farmhouse ale. Well I basically followed the grist but left out the spicing and used my own hops. So basically I took the advice of using body building high protein grains and made it lower gravity, I guess didn't make the beer haha. Anyway it's been a couple weeks. I'll hopefully crash it this weekend. I may rack six gallons of the eight into a carboy and rack the remaining beer into my sour saison portion. I will hopefully bottle in a few weeks with the trois portion though.

 

[Almighty]

With my recent batch of Spelt Saison, I wanted to test this temperature dependence. I split the main batch wort into 2 - 1 gal batches. One batch was fermented with a normal Saison temperature profile (start in the low 70s and free rise into the 80s and held for a week). The other batch was temperature controlled in the fermentation cabinet at 63-65 for 2 weeks and then brought up to mid 70s. The fermentation looked complete after 2 weeks.

Results:
Saison Profile - 1.000 - nice spicy notes, Belgian phenols and light fruit notes
Low Ale Temps - 1.000 - nice spicy notes, Belgian phenols and light fruit notes

I was surprised by the results, both were 100% Apparent Attenuation and 7.9% ABV. These both were allowed to ferment out for a total of 3 weeks before bottling. I'll do an official taste test in the following weeks.

Also, I have a Dark Saison recipe I'm working on, that a portion will get Brett Drie. I'm going to try to test this yeast and get up in the 11% ABV range. What are the limits people have tried so far?

Also I decided to summarize my experience with this yeast in a lengthy post on my blog:
http://jeffreycrane.blogspot.com/2012/09/brett-drie-trois-overview-spelt-saison.html

 

[bogwart]

With my recent batch of Spelt Saison, I wanted to test this temperature dependence. I split the main batch wort into 2 - 1 gal batches. One batch was fermented with a normal Saison temperature profile (start in the low 70s and free rise into the 80s and held for a week). The other batch was temperature controlled in the fermentation cabinet at 63-65 for 2 weeks and then brought up to mid 70s. The fermentation looked complete after 2 weeks.

Results:
Saison Profile - 1.000 - nice spicy notes, Belgian phenols and light fruit notes
Low Ale Temps - 1.000 - nice spicy notes, Belgian phenols and light fruit notes

I was surprised by the results, both were 100% Apparent Attenuation and 7.9% ABV. These both were allowed to ferment out for a total of 3 weeks before bottling. I'll do an official taste test in the following weeks.

Also, I have a Dark Saison recipe I'm working on, that a portion will get Brett Drie. I'm going to try to test this yeast and get up in the 11% ABV range. What are the limits people have tried so far?

Also I decided to summarize my experience with this yeast in a lengthy post on my blog:
http://jeffreycrane.blogspot.com/2012/09/brett-drie-trois-overview-spelt-saison.html

I'm interested in hearing what the upper limit of this yeast is as well. It would seem that with enough healthy yeast and ideal circumstances, it should be fairly alcohol tolerant. I made a belgian stout that finished WAY too high: from 1.088 to 1.026. I took 1gal of it and pitched the trois. It's moving slowly, but after 2 weeks it's down to 1.020 and very fruity. Next in line I have a brett brux trois porter (same one from the Zymurgy magazine). That should begin at a 1.080. The plan is to go 100% fermentation with the trois on that one as well.

 

[smokinghole]

I thought this was the Brett Drie strain. Or are you using a non WL strain to compare characteristics?

 

[Almighty]

I have a culture that was taken from the dregs of Avery 15. Chad Y talks about this strain(s) extensively on his old blog - http://www.brettanomycesproject.com/2009/02/inoculation-a-15-dregs/
Which he found out is actually 2 strains of Brett - http://brettanomyces.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/two-for-one-brettanomyces-strains/

The same culture I was given was also given to White Labs. I do not know what White Labs did with the original culture (if they isolated cultures or removed bacteria), but the properties are very close to my experience.

 

[oregone]

I'm interested in hearing what the upper limit of this yeast is as well. It would seem that with enough healthy yeast and ideal circumstances, it should be fairly alcohol tolerant. I made a belgian stout that finished WAY too high: from 1.088 to 1.026. I took 1gal of it and pitched the trois. It's moving slowly, but after 2 weeks it's down to 1.020 and very fruity. Next in line I have a brett brux trois porter (same one from the Zymurgy magazine). That should begin at a 1.080. The plan is to go 100% fermentation with the trois on that one as well.

I've done a strong golden that pushed 12%. Not as good a profile as C in that beer, but fermented out intwo weeks with 22% sugars.

 

[Almighty]

oregone - What were your starting and finishing gravity for each Brett beer?

 

[oregone]

I will have to dig through notes for starting gravity, but finished at 1.004. Mashed for 60 at 148 with 90% pils malt. Some acid and Carapils to round it out with a pinch of aromatic.

Edit: two liter starter ramped up over two weeks for a 7 gallon batch (2 for bottles, 5 for keg)

 

[Almighty]

If its 12% then it would have started around 1.090 or 1.095. That is some attenuation. I'm confused about the sugar, did you add sugar?

 

[oregone]

Dextrose and honey. About half and half staged during first few days of fermentation.

 

[berebrando]

Took a sample today of my pale ale fermented half with Brett 'Trois' and half with Brett brux/lambicus (5 gallons of each).

My first impressions of the brux/lambicus blend is Belgian ale with spices. I think this spice flavor might make a unique Belgian holiday ale. It tastes a lot like green apples and, to a lesser extent, tropical fruit. The fruitiness could be attributed to my citra/chinook hop schedule. The yeast is still causing a lot of turbulence, indicating its not quite finished. The brux/lambicus blend has it sitting at 1.016 after 17 days. Out of curiosity, the pH measured was 4.26

In contrast, the Trois half tastes much cleaner - it doesn't have the same Belgian spice in the aroma or flavor. The aroma is very light and fruity. Honestly, it's very clean, but tastes a little green. Again, the fruitiness is probably due to the hops. The yeast has pretty much flocculated out and, judging by the sample, has pretty much attenuated. This half came in at 1.010 with a pH 4.20.

I was hoping to package this batch on Sunday, but it looks like the b/l blend needs more time. The Trois half will be packaged, pending stable gravity reading, on Sunday.

I'm thinking the b/l blend will be racked on top of some sugary medjool dates so that I can free up the fermenter.

 

[TequilaMockingbird]

Picked up some of this Brett B strain from Hop & Grape earlier this week, and I'm now fermenting a Beglian red at a ratio of 75% Sacc and 25% Brett. After 12 hours the fermentation was vigorous to say the least. This is my first foray in to Brett B, and I'm really looking forward to this one. Plan to drop in to secondary after 10 days and leave for a further 14 before bottling.

 

[mhenry41h]

Picked up some of this Brett B strain from Hop & Grape earlier this week, and I'm now fermenting a Beglian red at a ratio of 75% Sacc and 25% Brett. After 12 hours the fermentation was vigorous to say the least. This is my first foray in to Brett B, and I'm really looking forward to this one. Plan to drop in to secondary after 10 days and leave for a further 14 before bottling.

You'll be happy with this yeast regimen, but plan on giving it 6 to 8 weeks in the fermenter. Around the 6 week mark you'll notice a very delicate note of Brett funk.

 

[Johnnyhitch1]

Ended up stiring a 1500 starter and brewed up a simple pale ale with nelson sauvin and pacific jade hops split it in 3 batches.
Under pitched one. Split the rest between the other 2 batchs and aerated only one of them

as of 5 hours the largest krausen is on the underpitched batch?!
nice krausen on the normal pitch aerated
pellice forming on the non-aerated

Will report back!!

ended up throwing in 1/3 bottle of POM cherry into each after they slowed down bout 2 weeks ago which they ate within days
Bottled all 3 yesterday and holy s$% the only one i didnt airate stinks amazing of overripe pineapple guava tangerine with that beautifully grape aroma from the sauvin hops and this slighty stone fruity aroma from the cherry and pom im assuming but WOW was i impressed with this experiment.

If your going for fruity tart over funk DO NOT AIRATE!!
Both batchs wether under or over pitched while being airated both taste very alike and have a slight acetic acid sourness to it already tropical fruit is evident but not as much as the non-airated

Bottles are carbing up for now. I have 5 bombers of each variation and plan to sample then 1 month apart after about 2 months of aging. I know this sounds very short but when the last bottle is sampled it will be 7-8 months in bottle or mayb i will save the last one for the year anniversary

thx again for all the help in this thread, lotta good readin in here!!

 

[berebrando]

If your going for fruity tart over funk DO NOT AIRATE!!

thx again for all the help in this thread, lotta good readin in here!!

Awesome experiment. I look forward to the tasting results. There sure is a lot of great info posted here!

I packaged my wild pale ale over the weekend. The half fermented with Trois finished 1.010. Along the same lines: tropical fruit aroma and flavor from the uncarbonated sample at bottling. Tasting notes forthcoming. The half that was fermented with brux/lambicus (WLP) blend was not quite finished, and I needed the carboy, so I racked it to secondary on top of 5lbs of sugar medjool dates. It's already fermenting like crazy.

I also brewed up a wild IPA (for lack of a better term) with 4oz of each of Columbus, chinook, and Simcoe at flame out. I pitched the 644 slurry from the pale ale. I pitched about 150 mL of slurry (og is 1.067) in each carboy. I will report back. In future batches, I'd really like to test the upper limits of this yeast (644) in terms of both gravity and temperature.

 

[NcBrewer35]

I am doing an education session for my beer club on this particular yeast and we are running into some issues I hope some of you could address.

We are doing 6 different beers all fermented with 100% of the Brett Trois.

3 of us have brewed our batches already while the other 3 have not.

One recipe seems to have stalled after only 8 days. He says after 45 hours the beer was down to 1.027. But since then the beer has not dropped any more gravity points. So after only 2 days the Trois brought the beer down to 1.027 but now 5 more days later and the beer is at the same gravity. The beer originally started at about 1.045. Fermentation has been done at the mid 70's.

Another member pitched his yeast over 48 hours ago but is not getting much activity.

All of us are seasoned brewers so I am fairly confident that all our pitch rates/temp/mash parameters are correct.

Does this yeast have cycles as some Brett does? Any info anyone could provide would be appreciated

 

[berebrando]

What were the pitching rates? This is pretty weird as I have followed this thread for a while and not seen anyone with stalled fermentations. In many cases, the brewers in this thread have used 1 to 2 liter starters for normal sized beers and have seen good atentuation.

Also curious what the mash temperature was? I mashed at 150 and had my Trois Pale Ale finish at 1.010 after two weeks. The fermentation, as many have discussed here, follows a very similar appearance as a tradional Sacc ferment, except that I am experiencing extended krausening. So, while it looks like a typical Sacc krausen, it is lasted two times longer than a side-by-side Sacc krausen.

 

[NcBrewer35]

maybe this will help. Let me put in exact quotes their responses in our ongoing emails.

OK, I may have a problem unless this brett ferments in cycles. It's been 1 week since I brewed, so I checked the gravity so we have some data on how the brett functions, and my gravity was exactly the same as it was after 45 hours. Its stuck at 1.027. It's very sweet still (cloyingly sweet) since it's only fermented 45% of the sugars. I did mash a bit warmer (156-157) since I expected the brett to rip through everything, but there's no way it should finish this high.

I had been fermenting in mid-70's (room temp at our house right now), which is on the low end of the yeast's range, so I put my seedling heating mat under the fermenting bucket tonight. I also gently stirred with a SS spoon to try to rouse the yeast. I should be able to get it into the 80's I think, so hopefully the warmer temps will invigorate the yeasties to start up again. If not I'll need a plan B.

If anyone has any suggestions (other than the warmer temps) I'm open to them. I suppose it could just need more time, but there is no signs of fermentation (it's starting to clear) and no gravity drop in 5 days. If this were my personal brew I'd consider hitting with some of my Wyeast Brett Lambicus that I have after another week or two of inactivity. Adding another brett should knock down the gravity like adding brett in secondary, but that would completely screw up the dynamics of our experiment (plus it may not be ready in time).

I'll keep an eye on it, maybe it will wake up after i warm it a bit.

I had great fermentation 12 hours from pitching - the yeast ripped thru the first 55% of the sugars, then just stopped. Not sure why. The heating mat has it up to 79 today - there's very little airlock activity. I'll wait and see how you guy's beers do, and give mine some more time. Mabye it's like that DuPont Saison strain that craps out for two weeks and come back to life after that to finish?

The other brewers comments:

I have had little to no activity out of my wort since I put it in the fermentation chamber on Wednesday night. I started it out at 70F, and was planning to slowly ramp it up to between 75-80F or so, but last night it has a very small krausen (1/4-1/2 inch) on top, so I went ahead and bumped it to 80F (basing it also on the feedback about yours stalling out) and haven't really seen any changes. I'm close to 48 hours and feel like I should see some sort of activity.

For what its worth, in the early days of my yeast starter, I had a nice little krausen, but as I continued to ramp it up every 3-4 days with more starter wort, that krausen went to about nothing. Could I have done something wrong there, or does anyone have any suggestions?

We all made 1000ml starters over the course of 8 days. My beer is currently doing ok I think. I brewed Sunday and after 5 full days of fermentation I have dropped from 1.086 to 1.034. The airlock bubbles about every 15 seconds. I am fermenting at 76 degrees.

 

[Quaker]

From Chad Yokobsen, the Brett will have a lag after the first few days, the get active again around 7-8 days. My initial fermentations (did 2 batches both described in this thread) were far more aggressive than those described above. I ferment in my kettle normally, and since I wanted to free it up to brew the following weekend, I racked to secondary fairly quickly, then ignored them for weeks. So I can't comment on whether there was a vigorous second fermentation or a long slow drop. I can say my blond never got a new kreusen even when racked onto fruit. My pitching rate would have been higher than yours. I pitched cooler, but ramped as high as 80 on their own in those first days.