WLP644 -Brett B Trois

[Oldsock]

I have an IPA that is 10 days into fermentation in with 100% Trois (two stage starter on a stir-plate, ended up at 1.5 L). Had the beer fermenting at 66 F ambient until this morning, when I moved it to an area in the mid-70s to help it finish out. What sort of attenuation have people seen? I did pale/wheat mostly with ½ lb of carapils, and mashed a bit cool. Hoping for low-80s apparent attenuation.

Hoping for a good combination with the fruity hops (Citra, Centennial mostly) and the fruity/funky yeast.

 

[mhenry41h]

I have an IPA that is 10 days into fermentation in with 100% Trois (two stage starter on a stir-plate, ended up at 1.5 L). Had the beer fermenting at 66 F ambient until this morning, when I moved it to an area in the mid-70s to help it finish out. What sort of attenuation have people seen? I did pale/wheat mostly with ½ lb of carapils, and mashed a bit cool. Hoping for low-80s apparent attenuation.

Hoping for a good combination with the fruity hops (Citra, Centennial mostly) and the fruity/funky yeast.

I'm super curious to see how this turns out. I'm not yet sold on the Belgian IPA's. I've had a few incredibly good ones and the others seemed to not meld together. I suspect this one will have the esters of Belgian yeasts without much of the phenols. Very interesting!

 

[JLem]

I have an IPA that is 10 days into fermentation in with 100% Trois (two stage starter on a stir-plate, ended up at 1.5 L). Had the beer fermenting at 66 F ambient until this morning, when I moved it to an area in the mid-70s to help it finish out. What sort of attenuation have people seen? I did pale/wheat mostly with ½ lb of carapils, and mashed a bit cool. Hoping for low-80s apparent attenuation.

Hoping for a good combination with the fruity hops (Citra, Centennial mostly) and the fruity/funky yeast.

Mike - I am 2 weeks into my fermentation and am at 73% attenuation. I started at 1.045, after 5 days I was down to 1.020, and now, after 14 days, I am at 1.012. I started the fermentation at 70°F. After taking a reading on day 5 I ramped it up to 75°F. I am hoping it will drop another several points to 1.010 at least. I'd feel better at 1.008.

Aroma and taste are tending towards ripe tropical fruit. Perhaps less crisp than it was at my last sampling on day 5.

Here's a pic of how things look in the fermenter (Day 14):

 

[Almighty]

I just racked my Table Saison (1.044) with Brett Drie and was surprized by the F.G. (.999) - 103% Apparent Attenuation. Mashed at 147 with 80% Pils, 15% Rolled Oats, 2.5% Acid Malt, 2.5% Piloncillo sugar.
http://jeffreycrane.blogspot.com/2012/06/great-saison-experiment-8-strains-part.html

And looking back on past brews
Extra Special Bretter - 1.048 - 1.006 - 87.5% Apparent Attenuation . Mashed 152 - 2nd Running beer with very little crystal malts.
Old Ale - 1.079 - 1.014 - 82% Apparent Attenuation - Mashed 154 - 7.5% Crystal Malts, 8% Turbinado sugar
Original Brett Bitter - 1.048 - 1.010 - 79% Apparent Attenuation - Mashed 154 - 8% crystal malts

I have never put the numbers together, but they seem to make pretty logical sense.

 

[nofootbreak]

3 weeks in im at 1.007, with a 1.054 og. Definitely fruity, though i cant pick much out in particular except an aroma that reminds me of white wine. My starter had the same distinct aroma.

Mashed at 150, fermentation was 73 ambient, no off flavors. I felt that temp was a gamble, but im not disappointed. dont have my recipe on me at the moment.

Thinking about a small dry hop with nelson sauvin and a touch of citra or sorachi ace.

 

[AmandaK]

Thinking about a small dry hop with nelson sauvin and a touch of citra or sorachi ace.

Sounds like a pretty good idea!

Also, I'd like to link this thread with Mike's blog post over on The Mad Fermentationist.

Cheers guys!

 

[Oldsock]

Mike - I am 2 weeks into my fermentation and am at 73% attenuation. I started at 1.045, after 5 days I was down to 1.020, and now, after 14 days, I am at 1.012. I started the fermentation at 70°F. After taking a reading on day 5 I ramped it up to 75°F. I am hoping it will drop another several points to 1.010 at least. I'd feel better at 1.008.

Aroma and taste are tending towards ripe tropical fruit. Perhaps less crisp than it was at my last sampling on day 5.

Here's a pic of how things look in the fermenter (Day 14):

Interesting, if my stalls high I have no aversion to pitching some US-05 or whatever to get the FG down to where I want it. Seems like Jeffrey is getting really high attenuation. We'll see. I boosted the temperature to 75 yesterday to help it finish out.

 

[Almighty]

I am still enjoying my 100% Brett Drie Bitter that was hopped throughout with Nelson. The hop aroma is still strong after almost 3 months.
http://jeffreycrane.blogspot.com/2012/05/brett-series-extra-special-bretter.html

I was surprised with my attenuation numbers and that was the first time I put them all together. And something else interesting I just noticed is that a couple of these batches were split and brewed with Sacc strains.

Apparent Attenuation
The Original Bitter - S-04 - 75% Brett Drie - 79%
Table Saison - WY3711 - 100% Brett Drie - 103%

 

[JLem]

I am still enjoying my 100% Brett Drie Bitter that was hopped throughout with Nelson. The hop aroma is still strong after almost 3 months.
http://jeffreycrane.blogspot.com/2012/05/brett-series-extra-special-bretter.html

I was surprised with my attenuation numbers and that was the first time I put them all together. And something else interesting I just noticed is that a couple of these batches were split and brewed with Sacc strains.

Apparent Attenuation
The Original Bitter - S-04 - 75% Brett Drie - 79%
Table Saison - WY3711 - 100% Brett Drie - 103%

Wow, that's pretty interesting and good to know. Looks like we can expect Brett Drie to attenuate 3-4% more than expected with a Sacch strain. Wonder if anyone else has similar data so we can get the n>2.

 

[Oldsock]

My IPA is down to 1.010 as of last night, 85% AA. Krausen is just about gone. Not bad for a 1.065 all-malt 153 F mashed beer. Flavor was super-fruity, big pineapple/guava/orange from the hops and the Brett. Excited to see how it tastes dry hopped, cold, and carbonated.

 

[nofootbreak]

I forgot to add that mine was a 10 gal batch. The wlp550 half got to 1.010 vs the 1.007 with brett.

I grew the brett up in a 2l starter for 3 weeks.

 

[Quaker]

One week in and mine has dropped to 1.012 from 1.047. I took a reading after 2 days fermenting and it had dropped to 1.015 at that time. So it went fast and furious those first days. Temp rose up to 80 from a 64F pitching temp (room temp was 74). It had just created a thin film of a pellicle today. I racked it onto 1.5 lbs each of halved apricots and mangoes which have been in the freezer and 15g med-toast French oak chips soaked for the week in Grand Marnier. I realized afterwards that I didn't leave any headspace in the event fermentation kicks up with the fruit. So it'll spend the next day or do in a tub as a precaution before getting moved to the basement to be forgotten for a while.

Taste is very simple and smooth. Reminds me of a British pale ale. Mouthfeel is silky; I assume from the oats. I don't get any pronounced tropical aromas or flavors. The finish is drying or puckering (not sour) though, like a dry, tannic wine. I bottled up 2 samples to taste carb'd as is. Thinking I may use the yeast cake for a Bitter or ESB as Almighty has.

After 2 days fermenting



After 1 week, had a continuous pellicle before being disturbed by moving the kettle.





Racking onto fruit.

 

[barrooze]

Can anyone tell me what the differences are between WLP650 (Brett Brux) and WLP644 (Brett Brux Trois)? Is 644 a blend of more than just Brett Brux?

 

[dstar26t]

WLP644 is a different strain of Brett Brux just like Wyeast 5112 Brett Brux is a different strain than WLP650. There are likely more strains of Brett Brux than there are strains of Saccharomyces Cerevisiae.

 

[pohldogg]

644 and 650 are different strains of the same species of brett just like 001 and 002 are different strains of sacch. 644 is isolated from drie fonteinen and 650 was isolated from somewhere else.

 

[barrooze]

Wow. I had no idea. Thanks so much! Is the general consensus that the different strains can be as different as Sacc Ceriv strains can be (001 and 570 are night and day apart IMO)?

 

[barrooze]

I forgot to add that mine was a 10 gal batch. The wlp550 half got to 1.010 vs the 1.007 with brett.

I grew the brett up in a 2l starter for 3 weeks.

Did you use a stirplate?

 

[nofootbreak]

Did you use a stirplate?

No stir plate.

 

[dstar26t]

Wow. I had no idea. Thanks so much! Is the general consensus that the different strains can be as different as Sacc Ceriv strains can be (001 and 570 are night and day apart IMO)?

Yes. Google Chad Yakobson and also listen to his Brewing Network interview.

 

[barrooze]

I'll have to re-listen to that one. Thanks for the info!

 

[dstar26t]

I did a cell count of a new vial and an 8 day 500mL starter on a stirplate.

The new vial had 8.65 Billion cells and the starter had 150 Billion cells

New vial (click to enlarge):


500mL starter (click to enlarge):


You can see the morphology change once it's put into a starter. Some of the cells start to chain together and elongate. It also had incredible growth, a sacch strain would grow to ~60 Billion under the same conditions.

 

[barrooze]

I did a cell count of a new vial and an 8 day 500mL starter on a stirplate.

What OG did your starter have?

 

[dstar26t]

1.035

 

[pohldogg]

You got over 15X growth on a half liter starter? That just seems like a whole lot.

 

[dstar26t]

I didn't monitor the growth over the entire 8 days but Chad Y. has talked about Brett going through up to 3 growth phases in 1 starter. It also makes sense considering when people pitch it like sacch from a 1 or 2 liter starter, even though the cell count in 1 vial is extremely low, fermentation is still vigorous.

 

[Quaker]

The amount of yeast in the vial is visibly minuscule. Yet the resultant yeast cake produced in my 1.5L starter was completely on par with a sacc. strain starter from one vial. That's just anecdotal info, but therefore I don't have a hard time believing dstar's results.

 

[dstar26t]

Chad Y. got slightly more growth with the Drie strain from a 500 mL propagation...25 Billion up to 450 Billion, 17 doublings vs. my 16.3. My starter was at 24C and his was 28C.

http://www.brettanomycesproject.com/dissertation/propagation-and-batch-culture-growth/propagation-results/

 

[JLem]

Mike - I am 2 weeks into my fermentation and am at 73% attenuation. I started at 1.045, after 5 days I was down to 1.020, and now, after 14 days, I am at 1.012. I started the fermentation at 70°F. After taking a reading on day 5 I ramped it up to 75°F. I am hoping it will drop another several points to 1.010 at least. I'd feel better at 1.008.

Aroma and taste are tending towards ripe tropical fruit. Perhaps less crisp than it was at my last sampling on day 5.

Here's a pic of how things look in the fermenter (Day 14):

Well, I'm 3 weeks in and I'm still sitting at 1.012ish (maybe 1.011). Looks like it isn't dropping much more, at least not quickly. I'm going to let it go until the end of the week, dry hop, and then bottle it sometime next week (assuming everything continues on its current course).

 

[digitalbullet]

At 2 weeks in the primary I went from 1.058 to 1.008 (86% attenuation). I don't have a fridge temp control, but I submerged the Carboy in an ice chest with water and was able to maintain temp between 65 and 70 degrees

 

[pjk49202]

I will be pulling 2 gallons of Belgian Golden Strong Ale I'm brewing today to try the Brett Trois out. Looking forward to the results. :fro: