I keep seeing all these high dollar amounts being paid for electrical cord. Ridiculous. I'd never pay that much. Buying the stuff by the foot from a big box store is just highway robbery. Harbor freight has good prices on 10g cords, when you catch a sale and and have a coupon. I've also got some cheap cords from local RV places that have a crap ton of used ones. They are usually dirty and have to be cleaned, but I have got 10/4 from them for $0.40/foot.
Wiring Question - Homemade Dryer Cord Splitter/Extension
- Thread starter specialkayme
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Here are a couple of dimension pics of the 120-v element I'm using in my system:
Wizard_of_Frobozz
Well-Known Member
For 10 gauge/30 amp, the RV cords are fairly flexible so it's a decent option. Keep in mind, however, that typical RV 30 amp service is 30 amp/120V so it's rare to find 4 wire RV cord in 10 gauge. Almost all of the 30 amp RV cords are 3 wire (black, white, and ground). Can't use that on a 240V 4 wire 30 amp dryer outlet.
50 amp RV service is 4 wire BUT the 6 gauge cords are not very flexible compared to SJOOW, especially when they are cold. I have 6/4 RV cords for my trailer; they're heavy and hard to move around when I need to do so. For the short lengths us brewers use for cord, I've gone with the more expensive SJOOW cord just because of how flexible and easy to handle they are. I've been tempted to change out my RV cords to SJOOW, but I have two 25 feet long cords, and that isn't worth the cost difference.
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specialkayme
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Thank you for the pics Mongoose. In theory I should be able to fit two 120v units, although I doubt I'll need to.
The wiring was never really the expensive part. It was the GFCI portion. The inline GFCI runs about $140. I can get a spa panel with a GFCI breaker for $78 (which is crazy to me that the panel with the breaker is cheaper than the breaker itself, as I could just put the GFCI breaker where my current dryer breaker is, but if its cheaper to get the panel too why not).
So, if I build the cord myself (HD has it for $1.89 a foot, and at 15 feet I'm not really that concerned with driving around town to save $15, but I appreciate the help), I guess I could get it down to about $210 +/-:
Dryer plug (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IPUA5ZW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 $13.11) feeding into a spa panel (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BQT1AS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 $77.36), one dryer outlet coming out (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BQSU8C/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 $9.88) and one heating element outlet coming out (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00002NAT9/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 $12.39), one Stilldragon controller (http://stilldragon.com/index.php/diy-large-controller.html $41), two plugs (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00002NARX/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 $13.35 and https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00208WSDW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 $15.35) and about 15 feet of SJOOW wire (https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-10-3-Black-SOOW-Power-Cord-By-the-Foot/50148254 $27.90).
Plus the heating element ($50-75), of course (so probably $280 all in). Not crazy. But pricier than I originally anticipated (especially after the ~$400 for the kettle, and ~$100 in kettle accessories).
The wiring was never really the expensive part. It was the GFCI portion. The inline GFCI runs about $140. I can get a spa panel with a GFCI breaker for $78 (which is crazy to me that the panel with the breaker is cheaper than the breaker itself, as I could just put the GFCI breaker where my current dryer breaker is, but if its cheaper to get the panel too why not).
So, if I build the cord myself (HD has it for $1.89 a foot, and at 15 feet I'm not really that concerned with driving around town to save $15, but I appreciate the help), I guess I could get it down to about $210 +/-:
Dryer plug (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IPUA5ZW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 $13.11) feeding into a spa panel (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BQT1AS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 $77.36), one dryer outlet coming out (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BQSU8C/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 $9.88) and one heating element outlet coming out (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00002NAT9/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 $12.39), one Stilldragon controller (http://stilldragon.com/index.php/diy-large-controller.html $41), two plugs (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00002NARX/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 $13.35 and https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00208WSDW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 $15.35) and about 15 feet of SJOOW wire (https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-10-3-Black-SOOW-Power-Cord-By-the-Foot/50148254 $27.90).
Plus the heating element ($50-75), of course (so probably $280 all in). Not crazy. But pricier than I originally anticipated (especially after the ~$400 for the kettle, and ~$100 in kettle accessories).
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Wizard_of_Frobozz
Well-Known Member
Instead of a spa panel, which comes with a 50 amp gfci breaker, why not just replace your existing dryer breaker with a 30 amp gfci breaker?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square...gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CKvYu4Lmkt4CFRmqyAodyiMDdQ
Yes, it costs more than the spa panel but only a little bit more. It’s a whole lot less work to install and won’t take up the space that a spa panel will. Plus, you have less plugs and cord to buy.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square...gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CKvYu4Lmkt4CFRmqyAodyiMDdQ
Yes, it costs more than the spa panel but only a little bit more. It’s a whole lot less work to install and won’t take up the space that a spa panel will. Plus, you have less plugs and cord to buy.
![Craft A Brew - Safale BE-256 Yeast - Fermentis - Belgian Ale Dry Yeast - For Belgian & Strong Ales - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [3 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51bcKEwQmWL._SL500_.jpg)
Wizard_of_Frobozz
Well-Known Member
Also, if you’re planning on going with a bigger heating element in the future, make sure your kettle and port arrangement will fit the larger ripple style element.
Most sites list those around 14-14.5 inches long.
Most sites list those around 14-14.5 inches long.
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specialkayme
Well-Known Member
Due to the cost.
I'm' going to have to get the plugs and cords anyway. I can either put in a second outlet, or create a splitter cable. The splitter will cost less, and provides me more flexibility (I could travel with it at that point, although I doubt I will).
I could just get the breaker at $100 (with tax). But then I'd have to get a housing box to fit the two outlets anyway. Not an expensive option (~$15), but it ends up putting the cost at about $40 more than the spa box. And I don't think the wiring will be all that much simpler. I'm either wiring a pigtail outlet into a spa box, or wiring a pigtail outlet into a junction box. Not really much of a difference.
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specialkayme
Well-Known Member
Thank you for checking on that. The kettle's ID is supposed to be 15.8", so I should be good.
I got the quote from Spike for the 4 ports, and I think I'm going to pull the trigger on it. I don't think the'll be any difference between ordering it today or ordering it over the weekend, as they won't get started on it until next week anyway, so I think I'm going to mull it over for a day or so.
Whenever I order the kettle, I'll need to make sure I"m ordering the ball valve, TC clamps, two TC caps, and heating element. So at that point I need to figure out if I'm getting a 120v 2250W power unit for $65, or go for the full build-out now on the 5500W unit for $280. Decisions decisions.
The GFCI 30-amp breaker in my sub-panel cost me $103. That was a bit of a "gulp."
The problem is that going electric is pricey; what you describe above will work, and frankly once you get to doing it, I think you're going to like it. I switched from propane to electric, and I wouldn't go back.
I hesitate to even tell you what I have in this. Of course, there are wiring costs, panel costs, breakers and GFCI breaker costs, I needed surface conduit built and installed, then there was the control panel, the cords....
Part of the puzzle is determined by where we are in our life cycle. I'm an empty-nester so it's not a big hurt to dedicate some resources to this. But 15 years ago? No chance, not even 10 years ago. I can fully understand where others have fiscal responsibilities still, and that dictates what's available.
That said, i've sold off some stuff to help pay for all this, and when I get everything working just right, I'll sell off my Jaded Hydra and my Hellfire burner. That'll pay for the electrician and the GFCI breaker.
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specialkayme
Well-Known Member
What confuses me is, why isn't a company offering this stuff?
I can go to Spike and order a kettle, custom made. When it comes to the heating element, unless you want that one that they keep on their shelf, you gotta go somewhere else.
You go to that other place (Brewhardware, wherever) to get your heating element (and other fittings) and then you're on your own for the controls for the heating element (I'm not sure what good a 5500W heating element is if I can't control it).
You find someone who offers the controls, but you're on your own for the wiring.
You find all the wiring you need (typically at home depot or some other place) and they usually don't really have what you need, and have to special order GFCI parts (or other things) and cut plugs off wires inserting other plugs.
And that doesn't count the cost of the electrician to put in a 240v outlet if for some reason you don't have one.
It seems to me like the person that offers the heating element should offer the controls and the wiring. A one time, buy it and you're done package. I'm a handy person, so I don't know if I'd buy it myself, but having the option to pay $X at the time I buy my kettle, plut it into the wall and make some frickin beer sounds great. It seems like the markup would be there for a healthy profit margin, especially if you can get most of these parts at bulk pricing.
It's just odd to me that the only way to really get it done is to patch together 4 different pieces of equipment from 4 different vendors, slap some duct tape on it and hope your house doesn't burn down.
EDIT: I see Brewhardware offers some cables and plugs. I missed that originally.
I can go to Spike and order a kettle, custom made. When it comes to the heating element, unless you want that one that they keep on their shelf, you gotta go somewhere else.
You go to that other place (Brewhardware, wherever) to get your heating element (and other fittings) and then you're on your own for the controls for the heating element (I'm not sure what good a 5500W heating element is if I can't control it).
You find someone who offers the controls, but you're on your own for the wiring.
You find all the wiring you need (typically at home depot or some other place) and they usually don't really have what you need, and have to special order GFCI parts (or other things) and cut plugs off wires inserting other plugs.
And that doesn't count the cost of the electrician to put in a 240v outlet if for some reason you don't have one.
It seems to me like the person that offers the heating element should offer the controls and the wiring. A one time, buy it and you're done package. I'm a handy person, so I don't know if I'd buy it myself, but having the option to pay $X at the time I buy my kettle, plut it into the wall and make some frickin beer sounds great. It seems like the markup would be there for a healthy profit margin, especially if you can get most of these parts at bulk pricing.
It's just odd to me that the only way to really get it done is to patch together 4 different pieces of equipment from 4 different vendors, slap some duct tape on it and hope your house doesn't burn down.
EDIT: I see Brewhardware offers some cables and plugs. I missed that originally.
I know of one place that DOES offer it: https://ebrewsupply.com/ Not sure they're the best price; their wire, for instance, is pricey. The thing is, you pay for the convenience of having it all together.
Interestingly, I didn't find this until just recently; they have a DIY panel that looks really good, and they include all the wiring and such to do it.
I can't recall Kal's site but they also offer such stuff.
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specialkayme
Well-Known Member
Even their controllers don't offer GFCI protection. Although perhaps they're assuming you'll put it in place when you hire an electrician to wire your L14-30 outlet for power supply.
I actually don't think their prices are that bad. I wouldn't call it cheap, but considering the next to zero competition . . .
BrewsterJr
Member
Have you researched submersible heaters? They use standard 120v outlet.
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specialkayme
Well-Known Member
Are you referring to heat sticks?
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/hotrodrtu.htm
They're more expensive than a standard 2250W heating element (like over twice the price) that runs on 110v, at almost half the power.
At 1500W each, I'd need about 4 to get the same heat output as one 5500W 240V unit. At that point it's twice the price of the 240V unit, including the wiring, spa outlet w/GFCI, dimmer and splitter.
They're a nice bandaid, but I don't view them as a long term solution.
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/hotrodrtu.htm
They're more expensive than a standard 2250W heating element (like over twice the price) that runs on 110v, at almost half the power.
At 1500W each, I'd need about 4 to get the same heat output as one 5500W 240V unit. At that point it's twice the price of the 240V unit, including the wiring, spa outlet w/GFCI, dimmer and splitter.
They're a nice bandaid, but I don't view them as a long term solution.
I went down a different path altogether.
My dedicated 220 volt brew/keg cleaning stand.
Standard flat stove elements and the stove controls in a box. Simple and easy to wire.
Major downside is the elements will initially trip a GFCI outlet until they heat up.
The running theory is they get enough moisture inside the tip of the elements near where they plug in to pass current across. They heat up and dry out and no longer trip the breaker.
I run it on a standard breaker first then switch over to a GFCI plug. I have the luxury of setting up plugs in my shop how I like so it works out for my setup.
I need to dry them out and use some high heat epoxy to seal the element ends.
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specialkayme
Well-Known Member
@bfbrewer - no picture was attached.
On another note, many apologies in advance for those who may get frustrated with me, but I sometimes have a tendency of having "paralysis by analysis" syndrome.
I ran the numbers on getting the 120v heater vs the 240v heater in cost. This is what I came down to:
120V system:
Heater - $65
12' Extension cord - $56
L6-30 to standard adapter - $40
Total cost - $161
240V system:
Heater w/Cord - $49
15' 10/3 Cord - $23
L6-30 Plug - $13
Stilldragon Controller - $41
Spa Box - $77
Dryer Cord - $13
Dryer Plug - $10
Total Cost - $226
Total price difference - $65 more expensive to do 240V
That assumes I just buy the cords pre-made off amazon. Not the cheapest option, but if I were to buy some wiring and do the plugs myself, I mine as well do the full wiring for the spa box and everything.
Assuming I went with 120V to start with, then switched to 240V later in order to cut down on heating times, I could repurpose some of the wiring, but would still need to get the spa box, some plugs/cords/outlets, and the controller, not to mention the second heater. Which would run me about $190 in extra costs. Which means I'd be out $125 more if I did the switch.
I really don't want to have to sit down and do all this wiring at the moment, but it's hard for me to justify paying $161 now, then $190 later ($351 total), instead of $226 now.
On another note, many apologies in advance for those who may get frustrated with me, but I sometimes have a tendency of having "paralysis by analysis" syndrome.
I ran the numbers on getting the 120v heater vs the 240v heater in cost. This is what I came down to:
120V system:
Heater - $65
12' Extension cord - $56
L6-30 to standard adapter - $40
Total cost - $161
240V system:
Heater w/Cord - $49
15' 10/3 Cord - $23
L6-30 Plug - $13
Stilldragon Controller - $41
Spa Box - $77
Dryer Cord - $13
Dryer Plug - $10
Total Cost - $226
Total price difference - $65 more expensive to do 240V
That assumes I just buy the cords pre-made off amazon. Not the cheapest option, but if I were to buy some wiring and do the plugs myself, I mine as well do the full wiring for the spa box and everything.
Assuming I went with 120V to start with, then switched to 240V later in order to cut down on heating times, I could repurpose some of the wiring, but would still need to get the spa box, some plugs/cords/outlets, and the controller, not to mention the second heater. Which would run me about $190 in extra costs. Which means I'd be out $125 more if I did the switch.
I really don't want to have to sit down and do all this wiring at the moment, but it's hard for me to justify paying $161 now, then $190 later ($351 total), instead of $226 now.
Here it is wired and in action
BrewsterJr
Member
I went through the exact same thought process and it helped me justify going with the 240v system. My apprehension was doing the electrical work myself but not wanting to get electrocuted it I made a mistake.
Yes, you are the definition of paralysis by analysis.
Put the 240 in and be done with it. And do it right, not this half-assedly way you're looking at now. You know very well you're not going to be satisfied with it, and before long you'll wish you had a full 5500-watt element.
If you're short a few bucks, sell off some stuff. Surely you have some unused items you can put on Craigslist. Find a way to do a very short-term part-time job to earn a couple of hundred extra. Cut back on your morning Latte for a month. Pack a lunch instead of eating out. There's nothing wrong with being frugal and careful, but there comes a time when such behavior is a conceit. You're nearly at that point.
So saith the Mongoose.
BrewsterJr
Member
Wow, nice!
Thanks. I really like this rig. Compact and very basic wiring. Runs well on a 30 amp breaker and will boil 15 gallons at a good roll.
5700 watts with 2 big elements and one smaller one.
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specialkayme
Well-Known Member
Both impressive and . . . . it appears extremely unnecessary.
Why would you have propane and heat?
I'm also not sure why you would wire up three stove heater elements instead of a standard heat stick.
Or why it makes sense to have it wired as both a GFCI outlet and a non-GFCI outlet.
If it works for you, fantastic. I just don't understand it.
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specialkayme
Well-Known Member
You're right. I know. Just takes a while to get there.
Thanks for sticking in there with me.
I might be confused, but what do you mean by this? What is the right way, with the spa panel and controller?
We have power outages in my area so propane is my backup.
I usually run it on a non GFCI outlet when brewing alone.
I like the versatility of putting any flat cooking vessel on the elements. It's basically a big stove top.
You're right. I know. Just takes a while to get there.
Thanks for sticking in there with me.
I might be confused, but what do you mean by this? What is the right way, with the spa panel and controller?
I'm ok with the Stilldragon 240 controller. You're trying to cheap out by using a couple of 120-v elements, and in the end, you won't be as happy with it, and if and when you do upgrade to a 5500 element, what are you going to do with the others? You might be able to sell them, if you can find someone with the right application.
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specialkayme
Well-Known Member
Makes sense. I agree. Thanks for the support. I owe you considerably.
I placed the order for the Stilldragon.
I'm awaiting confirmation on the 5500W heating element from the seller mentioned earlier.
Once I confirm, I'll place the order for the 10/3 cable and two L6 plugs from Brewhardware.
Immediately after I'll place the order for the dryer cord, dryer plug, and spa panel from amazon.
Then wire, and be done
I placed the order for the Stilldragon.
I'm awaiting confirmation on the 5500W heating element from the seller mentioned earlier.
Once I confirm, I'll place the order for the 10/3 cable and two L6 plugs from Brewhardware.
Immediately after I'll place the order for the dryer cord, dryer plug, and spa panel from amazon.
Then wire, and be done
I agree with @mongoose33 2x posts above. Buy once/cry once. Do it right from the start.
Wizard_of_Frobozz
Well-Known Member
I’ll go against the grain a bit here and say go with what your are comfortable with.
There is value in starting small and building as you gain experience and know more about what you want. Just about all of your 120v plan can be repurposed into a larger system as you grow.
It’s more expensive but don’t discount the value of learning as you go.
That being said, I am currently changing from 30 to 50 amp because I got tired of the limitations of 30 amp. It would have been less expensive overall if I had started right with 50 amp...
There is value in starting small and building as you gain experience and know more about what you want. Just about all of your 120v plan can be repurposed into a larger system as you grow.
It’s more expensive but don’t discount the value of learning as you go.
That being said, I am currently changing from 30 to 50 amp because I got tired of the limitations of 30 amp. It would have been less expensive overall if I had started right with 50 amp...
