Wine Yeast + Brett in beer

[jrfehon]

Brettanomyces should be fine, but we will have to wait and see.

I checked the gravity of 1 gallon of my original beer with wine yeast that I added brett to. It's been fermenting since the 11th of February. The gravity dropped from 1.013 to 1.005. There was a pellicle on top. The flavor, however, was not good. I had to dump the sample. I can't quite describe the flavor but it was just not drinkable. I would say though that since the gravity dropped it's safe to say that brett will not get killed by a killer wine yeast strain. I'm going to let the rest of the 1 gallon go for another few months at least and see if the flavor improves. If I had to suggest something to anyone interested in using wine yeast in a beer, K1116 isn't a great choice of strains.

 

[marvaden]

Which brettanomyces strain did you use?

 

[jrfehon]

644. I'm trying to think of how to describe the flavor. It has a harsh alcohol flavor which hopefully will mellow over time.

 

[marvaden]

Hmm. did you taste the beer that the wine yeast made prior to pitching the Brett? If so, how did it differ?

 

[marvaden]

Hmm. I've never used that strain of brett by itself as a secondary. I know that as a primary it tastes like pineapple that is about to go bad

 

[jrfehon]

Yeah I'm familiar with 644 and it doesn't smell or taste like a beer with 644. The wine beer by itself is nothing like the gallon I added Brett to. The wine yeast flavor is peachy but otherwise hard to describe. That flavor is subdued in the Brett gallon. The alcohol flavor is very dominant.

 

[marvaden]

Weird. I guess the other trouble shooting question that I would have so I don't get similar results is: what temperature did you have that gallon fermenting at with the Brett? It's sounding like you got fusel somehow... Correct me if that is not what you are describing

 

[jrfehon]

Weird. I guess the other trouble shooting question that I would have so I don't get similar results is: what temperature did you have that gallon fermenting at with the Brett? It's sounding like you got fusel somehow... Correct me if that is not what you are describing

Possible. It's fermenting around 70-75. I'm not exactly sure because I don't have a fermometer on it. However, since the gravity dropped wouldn't that mean that brett won't get killed by killer wine yeast?

 

[marvaden]

Yea, I don't think the Brett got killed, but I think that it may be fermenting too warm and the brett is making of flavors. It's just a guess. I will try to keep mine cool in a swamp cooler when I pitch the brett.

 

[marvaden]

I stole a sample of mine this weekend, without brett still. It has a very crisp citrus flavor just like a crisp white wine. Very interesting in a beer.

 

[jrfehon]

What is your recipe?

I brewed another batch today and used GRE. Just a basic pilsner malt based ale with a tiny bit of melanoiden for malt flavor and red color.

 

[marvaden]

10# Vienna
10# golden promise

150°f mash

2oz fuggle for 10 min

I went decently simple as well as you can tell. Went a little big but not crazy.

 

[marvaden]

With how big it is, you get the malts up front then the crisp citrus, and it finishes with a mild hop flavor

 

[jrfehon]

10# Vienna
10# golden promise

150°f mash

2oz fuggle for 10 min

I went decently simple as well as you can tell. Went a little big but not crazy.

Looks good. Did you only ferment with wine yeast and then plan to pitch Brett after primary fermentation?

 

[marvaden]

Yup. It only has the wine yeast right now. Once the lochristi blend comes, I will pitch that in. By the way it tastes, I almost wonder if I should go ahead and pitch some pedio in as well...

 

[jrfehon]

How big is your batch? Maybe split it and use pedio in half?

 

[marvaden]

I went big as in gravity. I have around five gallons, but probably closer to four not counting the yeast cake. If it tastes good, I will do this again with pedio from the beginning.

 

[jrfehon]

I thought about making a sour mash for my current batch but decided against it. I do, however, think a slight tartness would pair well with wine yeast in beer. Have you ever added citric acid before bottling? I know a guy who use to be a brew master at a brew pub here and he swears by it instead of going through the process of a sour mash.

 

[marvaden]

That's an interesting concept. I have never tried that.

 

[marvaden]

I have done a rhubarb pale ale before that had a very pleasant tart flavor

 

[marvaden]

I pitched the Lochristi blend over the weekend. It's already developing a mild funk on the nose. It doesn't seem to clash aroma wise, so I am still hopeful. Fingers crossed

 

[BrasseurGeorges]

I checked the gravity of 1 gallon of my original beer with wine yeast that I added brett to. It's been fermenting since the 11th of February. The gravity dropped from 1.013 to 1.005. There was a pellicle on top. The flavor, however, was not good. I had to dump the sample. I can't quite describe the flavor but it was just not drinkable. I would say though that since the gravity dropped it's safe to say that brett will not get killed by a killer wine yeast strain. I'm going to let the rest of the 1 gallon go for another few months at least and see if the flavor improves. If I had to suggest something to anyone interested in using wine yeast in a beer, K1116 isn't a great choice of strains.

I used K-1116 once in a series of cider experiments and thought it was just awful.


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[BrasseurGeorges]

Hmm. I've never used that strain of brett by itself as a secondary. I know that as a primary it tastes like pineapple that is about to go bad

That is actually a pretty fantastic description. I've been saying pineapple and mango, but that really just cuts to the chase.


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[jrfehon]

I used K-1116 once in a series of cider experiments and thought it was just awful.

I rebrewed the same beer with K1116 recently but this time I dry hopped it with Amarillo and added a tiny bit of citric acid. I force carbed it last week and it tastes much better. I'm not sure it's a beer I'd brew again with this exact recipe but it's definitely drinkable.

Today I'm going to take a gravity reading of a similar beer I brewed two weeks ago with GRE. If it tastes good I'm going to brew a 5 gallon batch of a simple lambic recipe and ferment it completely with GRE. Then after primary, rack it on top of a year old yeast cake from a sour stout.

 

[marvaden]

So, I just took a sample of mine to see how it's progressing. It tastes amazing. There's malt, a bit if earthy/spicy flavor from the fuggle hops, orange blossom, strawberry, and a moderate balance of funk. The noise is all funk right note but that should mature into a more rounded profile in time. I would recommend this yeast blend for a brown. I'm not sue how it would do without the malt flavor balancing it out.

 

[jrfehon]

My second wine yeast recipe is much better I think than my first attempt. It's pretty basic, pilsner malt with a tiny bit of cara pils and melanoiden. I used styrian for bitter and flavor hops then EKG for dry hopping. I fermented half with wlp001 and the other half with GRE. It turned out really well! It tastes dry yet sweet, it's hard to describe. But it does have a nice combo of slight malt and floral flavors with a hint of berry. My next beer is going to be a basic lambic recipe with GRE for primary then I'm going to rerack on a 16 month old sour yeast cake.

 

[othellomcbane]

This is a combo that has tons of potential. I brewed a beer last year with red wine yeast and Brett, with great results.

For anyone interested, the recipe post is here:
http://www.bear-flavored.com/2013/10/wine-yeast-brett-fermented-oak-aged.html

and tasting notes here:
http://www.bear-flavored.com/2014/04/wine-yeast-brett-fermented-strong-ale.html

 

[jrfehon]

I'm brewing today a beer I'm going to primary with GRE and rerack on the yeast cake of a Rodenbach Grand Cru clone that's been in the secondary for 16 months (I used the Wyeast lambic blend in that beer). I'm using the same recipe I did for my last beer with GRE, which I think is the best beer I've brewed so far. This time, however, I just added a tablespoon of wheat flower after the mash right before the boil, which is happening now. It'll be really interesting to see how the flavor develops while it's on the sour yeast cake.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

I made a beer with wine yeast and Brett last year. The initial beer was a sort of Belgian IPA with Pils, Flaked Spelt and some sugar and all El Dorado hops. Pitched WLP550 and Lalvin 71B, one of the ones listed as not killer and good for beer in that podcast.

The behavior of the yeast was interesting. It started to build a krauesen, but then, I presume when the wine yeast started taking over a bit more after about 24 hours, the head dropped and was dead. The fermentation then looked like a mead fermentation, with that kind of fizzing at the top but no real formation of a krauesen.

The beer went from 1.071 down to 1.016, but I wanted it lower. Sure, 77.5% attenuation, but I used some sugar and expected it to drop more and it wasn't going down. It was done. And it still tasted sweet to me.

I had a Rye beer, a sort of Rye IPA I had made with Brett Trois from White Labs. I bottled that and had about a liter left in the bottom, with the yeast, and racked straight on top of that with this wine-beer.

It started up again and took it down ten more points to 1.006.

The resulting beer was extraordinary. There was an incredible fruitiness. Dry hopped it with El Dorado as well and some of that came through, some winey notes, some Brett Trois fruitiness. Very strange but quit pleasant. I think Brett and wine yeasts can work nicely together. I haven't tried it again. Busy with other craziness, but it's a fun experiment.