Looking for black coloration but with the taste of an amber. I’ve tried a couple of times various things and this next time I intend to try using the Midnight Wheat (1/2 lb) just in the sparge. After the first runnings I add 3 separate additions of sparge water, stir, and wait about 10 mins before draining and repeating. If I doctor my water for the amber and allow the MW to sit as I do will it effect the pH (I shoot for around 5.44)?
Will It Have A Negative Impact?
- Thread starter rodwha
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RPh_Guy
Bringing Sour Back
Sinamar is the gold standard for color adjustment (if you're averse to using food coloring):
https://brewchatter.com/products/sinamarbeercolorextract4ozjar
https://brewchatter.com/products/sinamarbeercolorextract4ozjar
Robert65
Major Obvious (recently promoted)
I presume you mean you are targeting wort pH 5.44 into the kettle? I would expect it to be pulled down some, yes. How much I don't know.
You can try some other tricks to get color with minimal flavor. The longtime British practice was to finely grind black malt and add it directly to the boil near the end. Other related methods are to do a separate "mash" (hot steep) or cold steep of the color malt and add this liquid to the boil. I've tried the steep methods and flavor is minimal, but it takes a lot of black malt (or MW, which I really do like for this purpose) to get the expected color.
As mentioned in the above post, Sinamar is a great colorant. It's in the class of products called Farbebier (color beer) in Germany. It is a dark beer -- fully brewed, with a very hefty portion of dehusked Carafa, fermented, and then vacuum concentrated into a dense syrup. A little goes a long way in terms of color, and while it does add a subtle roast flavor, it is indeed very subtle (my latest Dunkel using only extra Sinamar in place of 1% dehusked Carafa 2 is very obviously missing a roast note I now miss.)
Finally, if you are willing to pay ridiculous shipping, British homebrew retailers sell homebrew scale bottles of Brewers Caramel (aka Class III Ammonia Caramel,) the British standard colorant. Unfortunately, in the US you have to buy it by the drum.*
At any rate, any of these methods involve adding the colorant late in the boil, when you want to lower pH anyway, so any such effect is not a problem.
*Due to its charge, ordinary burnt sugar caramel coloring is not beer stable; it will bind with the body and foam positive proteins in beer, and the complex will precipitate out.
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rodwha
Well-Known Member
I’ve had Sinamar suggested, but I buy my needs from MoreBeer and they don’t offer it.
My last attempt used 1/2 lb with half in the mash and the other half added during the sparge and it was along the lines of an ambery brown. Almost...
My last attempt used 1/2 lb with half in the mash and the other half added during the sparge and it was along the lines of an ambery brown. Almost...
Sinamar is available from multiple sources. You aren't married to Morebeer, use another supplier for things you want that they don't carry.
Robert65
Major Obvious (recently promoted)
For some strange reason, all the usual suppliers seem to be out of stock right now, based on a quick Google. I recently picked up 2L in a group buy, hope we didn't drain the N American supply! Might as well get on all the email lists for availability alerts.
Sinamar is made from 100% Carafa Special (de-husked), minimally hopped and then fermented although there is obviously not much to ferment in such a wort. This is all so that the resulting product can be considered "beer" under German regulations so that German breweries can lie about their product being made only from "water, barley and hops". Since you don't have to declare "beer" as an ingredient on the label your lie will go undetected. On the other hand you would have to declare a coloring agent such as caramel (E150x) so you wouldn't be able to straight-facedly lie about that.
If all that is irrelevant to you I'd suggest buying the much cheaper caramel coloring, it'll give the same end result at a fraction of the cost and is usually on stock everywhere as it's the most commonly used food coloring agent.
P.S. Sinamar is further debittered with activated carbon before being concentrated into a thick syrup. The trade name Sinamar is actually a play on words based on the Latin expression "sine amaro", literally "without bitterness".
If all that is irrelevant to you I'd suggest buying the much cheaper caramel coloring, it'll give the same end result at a fraction of the cost and is usually on stock everywhere as it's the most commonly used food coloring agent.
P.S. Sinamar is further debittered with activated carbon before being concentrated into a thick syrup. The trade name Sinamar is actually a play on words based on the Latin expression "sine amaro", literally "without bitterness".
Robert65
Major Obvious (recently promoted)
Unfortunately, here in the States, as I mentioned, brewers caramel isn't available through homebrew retailers, so shipping from the UK really makes it an impractical option. Sinamar is the most economical substitute, even for use in British style beers.
And as to how Sinamar got its name, thanks for the enlightenment. As an old Classicist, I'm embarrassed to say I never guessed at the Latin play on words staring me in the face!
I think the very best solution is brewers caramel. Don't let the word "caramel" in the name fool you...it is not a sugar and is completely unfermentable. it is only used for coloring and has been used by commercial brewers in England for centuries to achieve the exact color they wanted in any given beer. Unfortunately as Robert pointed out, shipping from the UK to the states makes it quite expensive. I did however bite the bullet and bought a bottle a few years ago and it works a champ.
https://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/brupaks-brewers-caramel.html
https://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/brupaks-brewers-caramel.html
In that case you'll have to come to terms with the fact that your beer will have roasty notes. There is really no way of getting the color without the taste short of making your own Sinamar with activated carbon.
BTW if you add base malt in the sparge you'll also have unconverted starches in your beer which is an additional problem.
BTW if you add base malt in the sparge you'll also have unconverted starches in your beer which is an additional problem.
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rodwha
Well-Known Member
My last beer wasn’t roasty.
Midnight Wheat isn’t exactly a base malt is it? And what are the issues with this starch in the beer?
half a pound of midnight wheat is a lot in a 5 gallon batch. I assume you did the math on color and that is what you want. It is great stuff for adding color with little or no flavor. Used to use it frequently in black IPAs. It does not need to be mashed...little to no starches survive the midnighting process. You want the 550 lovibond stuff (I see that on Morebeer and NB) I would not use the 375-450 Lovibond "chocolate" midnight wheat I see on brewhardware.com.
Other products I used successfully in black IPAs included Maltoferm A-60001 which is a briess DME product similar to the Wyerman Sinamar. Never tried Sinamar but I understand more or less same thing just a dry form and didnt need as much to get to black. I did a quick look and agree with your search that neither of these seem to be available in stock from online suppliers I have used before.
I also used Briess Blackprinz malt with success as well as Carafa Special 3. I think these are pretty much the same product just different maltsters. They are both dehusked roasted barley. The dehusking eliminates most of the roasty flavors. Make sure it is the "special" when using Carafa that is only indication on the product it is the dehusked version.
I really never noticed much difference adding the malt into the mash vs sparge only or even cold steeping the dark malts. Again these were mainly black IPAs and the subtle malt characters Ray Daniels talks about in Designing Great Beers may be overwhelmed by the hops in any IPA. The dark malt helped my very soft water get to right pH (at least in Brew'n Water, I didn't have a meter yet) so after trying different things I ended up just putting the grains in the mash when I used grain and in the boil when using Maltoferm.
From my memory I thought for color without roast flavor the Maltoferm worked best, followed by Midnight Wheat, followed by dehusked roasted barley.
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rodwha
Well-Known Member
What prompted me to try this was my drinking a black IPA and having my neighbor come by. I offered him some and he turned it down stating he didn’t like dark strong beer. I explained what it was or wasn’t, but he was unshakable. So I told him I was going to brew a black beer that tasted like an amber.
My first attempt, using 3/4 lb, essentially tasted like an ale version of a Schwarzbier, which I found I like and still brew. But even 1/2 lb in the mash still comes across quite similar.
My first attempt, using 3/4 lb, essentially tasted like an ale version of a Schwarzbier, which I found I like and still brew. But even 1/2 lb in the mash still comes across quite similar.
this guy claims to have the maltoferm in stock
https://www.quirkyhomebrew.com/all-...lt-extract/briess-dme-maltoferm-a-6001-2-5oz/
here is the data sheet
http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Assets/PDFs/Briess_PISB_MaltofermA6001DME.pdf
You can add this to your amber after fermentation is over. Bottle some up without the maltoferm and the rest with it. Get your neighbor to taste them blindfolded. Probably not going to be able to tell the difference.
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rodwha
Well-Known Member
I’ve since moved, but it’s still a mission of mine. The last one was almost brown ale-like. Not bad but not what I was looking for. I also like the challenge much like the brown ale I made using nothing but grains and getting a nice chocolate flavor that I can’t replicate (the supply house subbed a grain and my notes got wet right where the amounts and grains are listed).
