Why is it that only grapes are heavily used for wine-making, but not other fruits?

[chaofan]

I remember a youtube blogger making wine from all kinds of fruits, grain crops, even one with mackerel, and then tasting and scoring it, mostly 50 to 70, but when it came to grapes, random 75s and 80s.

 

[worlddivides]

It's not "only" grapes. You seem to be forgetting apples, for example. Cider is extremely popular. Then there's perry, which is made from fermented pears, but it's nowhere near as popular as cider.

Part of the reason is that grapes tend to have the best balance of sugars, tannins, acidity, and overall flavor. A lot of fruits are simply not suited for fermentation at all (any citrus fruit at all, for example). And even fruits that are suited for fermentation typically take a lot more effort to get to a tasty level, whereas grapes are just suited for making tasty, drinkable fermented beverages. A lot of fruits that are delicious fresh taste pretty nasty if you ferment them. The overall balance of grapes is probably the main reason why wine is likely the third oldest alcoholic beverage after mead and beer.

 

[madscientist451]

There is a winery in Canada that uses tomatoes.

 

[dmtaylor]

Grapes are one of the sweetest, and also provide excellent variety in tannin, flavors, colors. People might say the same thing about apples and cider, but apples and cider seem to have much narrower range compared with grapes and wine. Apples also have less sugar and when fermented naturally without added sugars, provide only roughly 6.5% ABV vs. wine with 11-12%, almost double in wine vs. cider.

Other fruits tend to have far more acidity which is harder to drink, and/or are much more difficult to juice than grapes.

 

[kurds_2408]

 

[hotbeer]

To answer your title. Mainly because it's in the definition of wine.

noun
an alcoholic drink made from fermented grape juice.
"he opened a bottle of red wine"

The other things some might call wine, but many others might say they are just similar wine-like products.

Same thing with beer. In some places it use to be law that beer could only be something made with water, barley and hops. Nothing else. When science at a point that they discovered yeast and was able to show that yeast were the things that actually made it beer, then they included yeast in the legal definition.

We've gotten looser with what we call things since a lot of the old reasoning and other terminology has been lost or become terms we never read anymore in the dictionary or encyclopedia. The names let others know more specifically what type of drink was being talked about.

I can't make a single-malt whiskey here and call it Scotch. Though that's a slightly different issue.

 

[JAReeves]

I'm a teacher who is also fascinated by your very topic. If I get too pedantic, feel free to DM me a "Shut the **** up" message, but I love this stuff (and teach it).

Based upon archaeological research and historical records (Egypt, Israel, Sumeria, etc.), we have been cultivating grapes for drinking for near 10,000 years (maybe longer). Our ancestors have been cultivating, cross-breeding, and enjoying grapes as a method of getting ripped since time immemorial.

Sam Calagione made a classical ferment one of their (Dogfishhead Brewing) early experimental beers (Wine-Beer-Mead Hybrid). Also, we are finally able to get molecular data on the residue inside jars from human habitations or gravesites and grapes are a significant part of those discoveries, mead and beer also playing a part in early humanity's ability to get $***-canned.

As mentioned above, grapes are pretty balanced for easy drinking, well, because that's what we were going for through generations of messing with their genome the old-fashioned way--this one pollinates this one and we play with the seeds. No CRISPR needed.

If you want to crack open a Bible, in Genesis, post-flood (chapter 8 or so and then on), Noah plants grapes AND then makes an altar of thanks to God. When the grapes are ready, he proceeds to get, literally, buck-***-naked drunk and pass out in his tent. There's a lot more story than that, but that's the part that connects to your original point.

This is probably why I am one of the more popular theology teachers at my high school.

Enjoy fermenting!

Well, maybe not mackerel.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

I’m tempted…, well I am just going to say it; that’s what grapes were created for! Anything else is just coincidental.
I will say that I have been making a very delicious peach wine for years, and I just discovered that cranberry juice makes a wonderful sparkling wine. I am also fond of blackberry and blueberry; especially if mixed with distilled corn spirits, and that’s all I’m going to say about that.

 

[mac_1103]

Unlike most other fruits, grapes have just about perfect amounts of sugar and water and come off the vine covered with yeast that has evolved over eons to ferment them. It's almost like mother nature decided to make a wine kit.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

Unlike most other fruits, grapes have just about perfect amounts of sugar and water and come off the vine covered with yeast that has evolved over eons to ferment them. It's almost like mother nature decided to make a wine kit.

Well, I don’t know anything about that “Mother Nature” gal, but in Sirach 31, it says of our Father God:

 

[mac_1103]

OK, I know it says "Thou shalt not steal." but I am totally stealing "What is life to one who is without wine?" (the USCCB-approved translation really doesn't do it justice).

 

[Brew_Dude41]

There is a winery in Canada that uses tomatoes.

My late uncle made a ton of "wine" from anything from dandelions to tomatoes.
It was all very sweet stuff that I didn't care much for, but I was not much for wine at that point either.

 

[mashdar]

My late uncle made a ton of "wine" from anything from dandelions to tomatoes.
It was all very sweet stuff that I didn't care much for, but I was not much for wine at that point either.

Some folks 'round these parts make tomato wine.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/tomato-wine.52828/

 

[dmtaylor]

A buddy of mine made tomato wine. It actually turned yellow and tasted like cider with a slight tomato character.

 

[fluketamer]

A buddy of mine made tomato wine. It actually turned yellow and tasted like cider with a slight tomato character.

yikes


i know tomato wine can be good but the tomato character is not something i think i would want in a wine.

 

[madscientist451]

Haven’t tasted my tomato wine in a year or more, but the last time I tried it, I decided to save it for cooking.

 

[acm28]

I've seen several answers, some more correct than others, but the "true" and only answer is simple. Wine is the product of fermented grapes, no more and no less, it cannot contain any other type of fruit otherwise it can no longer be called wine.
I say this, not because I remembered but because in a way I am linked to the wine sector and this is regulated by several organizations, one of which is the OIV (international wine organization) so if you want to know more you can consult their website but answering in very succinctly to the initial question, if it were made with other fruits it would no longer be wine.

 

[mashdar]

Wine is the product of fermented grapes, no more and no less, it cannot contain any other type of fruit otherwise it can no longer be called wine.

That's a linguistic argument more than an explanation of people's beverage preferences.

 

[mac_1103]

Humans have been making "wine" from fruits other than grapes for about as long as they've been making wine from grapes. Or who knows, maybe even longer. The original question isn't about linguistics or legalities, it's about why grape wine is the dominant fermented fruit juice beverage.

 

[hotbeer]

But they had other names for those ferment fruit juices. Many of them lost today I imagine. Cider for apples is one example and perry if made from pear juice.

I am okay though if one uses the name of the fruit and then call it wine. But only loosely. It's not really wine.

 

[acm28]

Humans have been making "wine" from fruits other than grapes for about as long as they've been making wine from grapes. Or who knows, maybe even longer. The original question isn't about linguistics or legalities, it's about why grape wine is the dominant fermented fruit juice beverage.

What I wanted to say is that each thing has its name, wine is made from grapes, beer is made from malt (generally), etc... and each thing should be called by its name.
As for it being the most dominant fermented fruit drink, I think that's due to its wide variety. You can feel this variety much more than in most drinks, just within the wine you have many different styles (dry, sparkling, liqueurs, etc...) and then this still depends on the hundreds of grape varieties (which are strongly influenced by the climate ) and combinations thereof. Within that, it still depends on how they are made and the "work" they do afterwards... that is, with the exception of perhaps beer, which also has a lot of possible combinations, wine is the alcoholic beverage (I'm not counting spirits) that offers more variety, so it's easier for it to be the most dominant.
(Of course, in my opinion, there could be another reason, but in my opinion, I think it might be because of this. oh, and the cultural part also plays a very important role)

 

[mac_1103]

But they had other names for those ferment fruit juices. Many of them lost today I imagine. Cider for apples is one example and perry if made from pear juice.

And lots of them are called wine - rice wine, dandelion wine, etc. I wasn't talking about cider or perry or any other beverage that has always had its own name.

As for it being the most dominant fermented fruit drink, I think that's due to its wide variety.

And as I said before, I think it's because no other fruit is as well-suited to making a fermented beverage that tastes good. The stuff practically makes itself.

 

[mashdar]

cider

You mean apfelwein?

 

[acm28]

And lots of them are called wine - rice wine, dandelion wine, etc. I wasn't talking about cider or perry or any other beverage that has always had its own name.

And as I said before, I think it's because no other fruit is as well-suited to making a fermented beverage that tastes good. The stuff practically makes itself.

I understand but those terms are wrong, you can call them what you want, however they will not be wine from the moment they use more of the grapes (of course, I'm not counting yeasts and other compounds already present in the grapes but which have to add to "balance" the wine).

It's not quite like that, despite the enormous potential of grapes, making (drinkable) wine requires a lot of work, doing it is simple but doing it with quality is not that easy.

 

[mac_1103]

you can call them what you want

It's got nothing to do with what I want to call them. And it's got nothing to do with modern legal regulations of what can be called what when you're trying to sell it or export it or import it. People have been calling them wine for as long as they've been calling the stuff made from grapes wine.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

If we get back to the original question, I would just simply suggest that grapes do it better than any other fruit. I do blackberries, blueberries, cranberry, and peach. They are all good, but the grape is by far the easiest and the best all around.
I can’t look at this and not get excited:

My friend calls me over and tells me, “I have what I wanted; you can have the rest.” …and I find this!

 

[patto1ro]

I've seen several answers, some more correct than others, but the "true" and only answer is simple. Wine is the product of fermented grapes, no more and no less, it cannot contain any other type of fruit otherwise it can no longer be called wine.
I say this, not because I remembered but because in a way I am linked to the wine sector and this is regulated by several organizations, one of which is the OIV (international wine organization) so if you want to know more you can consult their website but answering in very succinctly to the initial question, if it were made with other fruits it would no longer be wine.

Any fermented fruit juice is wine. Including cider.

 

[patto1ro]

Fermented grain=beer.
Fermented fruit=wine.
Distilled either=fun, fun,fun.

 

[Graham H]

I say this, not because I remembered but because in a way I am linked to the wine sector and this is regulated by several organizations, one of which is the OIV (international wine organization) so if you want to know more you can consult their website but answering in very succinctly to the initial question, if it were made with other fruits it would no longer be wine.

On the surface it appears as if the determination of the exclusivity of the definition was made by people with a vested interest in maintaining the exclusivity of the definition.

I agree that the most common definition of wine is fermented grape juice, but I respectfully disagree with your claim that it must be the only definition. An industry-specific organization might want it so, but the word is already in use (albeit less frequently) as the wider definition.

I’ve been home brewing for several years and I’ve made various beers and ciders, but the only wine I’ve ever made is Apfelwein.

 

[acm28]

Okay, everyone has their own opinion. As I said previously in another message, I understand that you want to use this more enlarged definition, although for me it is wrong (and for you I am wrong ) but that is because it was what I was taught in my years of study and at a professional level by credible sources, but opinions change a lot even due to geographical and cultural reasons.

In any case, and although I was the one who brought this topic here, I think it is more relevant to focus on the initial issue (because on this we can debate as much as we want and I don't think either side will change their opinion) a Since this has a lot of possible debate. Regardless of everything, I already left my answer to the initial question in a message above, if you want to return to this topic I think it would be more advantageous but if you want to stay with me that's fine, especially because I was actually the one who "introduced" it.

As for it being the most dominant fermented fruit drink, I think that's due to its wide variety. You can feel this variety much more than in most drinks, just within the wine you have many different styles (dry, sparkling, liqueurs, etc...) and then this still depends on the hundreds of grape varieties (which are strongly influenced by the climate ) and combinations thereof. Within that, it still depends on how they are made and the "work" they do afterwards... that is, with the exception of perhaps beer, which also has a lot of possible combinations, wine is the alcoholic beverage (I'm not counting spirits) that offers more variety, so it's easier for it to be the most dominant.
(Of course, in my opinion, there could be another reason, but in my opinion, I think it might be because of this. oh, and the cultural part also plays a very important role)

 

[worlddivides]

Okay, everyone has their own opinion. As I said previously in another message, I understand that you want to use this more enlarged definition, although for me it is wrong (and for you I am wrong ) but that is because it was what I was taught in my years of study and at a professional level by credible sources, but opinions change a lot even due to geographical and cultural reasons.

In any case, and although I was the one who brought this topic here, I think it is more relevant to focus on the initial issue (because on this we can debate as much as we want and I don't think either side will change their opinion) a Since this has a lot of possible debate. Regardless of everything, I already left my answer to the initial question in a message above, if you want to return to this topic I think it would be more advantageous but if you want to stay with me that's fine, especially because I was actually the one who "introduced" it.

We don't "want" to use this more enlarged definition. It's not a matter of opinion. This is a matter of right and wrong. My job is in linguistics and regardless of whether you want to come from a "descriptionist" perspective (describing how language is actually used - in which case, and it might be different in other languages, but in English, wine is not limited to grapes) or a "prescriptionist" perspective (describing how dictionaries and so on say language should be used - which also says that wine is used for an alcoholic beverage made by any fruit, such as Merriam-Webster, Oxford, etc.), you are wrong. So you shouldn't change your "opinion." You should correct your incorrect definition.

 

[Rish]

When I was a kid, my parents skrimped and saved to buy a Britannica Encyclopedia set, mainly for my brothers and me to use. I have a lot of respect for and confidence in this source. Here's what I found from Britannica (my emphasis) on this question. I'm good with it but from what I've read here, some won't be.RDWHAHB(or wine)
*********""
wine, the fermented juice of the grape. Of the grape genus Vitis, one species, V. vinifera (often erroneously called the European grape), is used almost exclusively. Beverages produced from V. labrusca, the native American grape, and from other grape species are also considered wines. When other fruits are fermented to produce a kind of wine, the name of the fruit is included, as in the terms peach wine and blackberry wine.

 

[Graham H]

wine, the fermented juice of the grape. Of the grape genus Vitis, one species, V. vinifera (often erroneously called the European grape), is used almost exclusively. Beverages produced from V. labrusca, the native American grape, and from other grape species are also considered wines. When other fruits are fermented to produce a kind of wine, the name of the fruit is included, as in the terms peach wine and blackberry wine.

Hmmm… I find it a bit odd that their definition of a “non-wine” (not made from grapes) is described as “a kind of wine,” and not “similar to wine,” or “substitute for wine.” I think the folks at Britannica could have been a bit clearer in their choice of wording.

 

[worlddivides]

Hmmm… I find it a bit odd that their definition of a “non-wine” (not made from grapes) is described as “a kind of wine,” and not “similar to wine,” or “substitute for wine.” I think the folks at Britannica could have been a bit clearer in their choice of wording.

But it is wine, but just a different "kind of wine." The way it works is that because grapes are the most common kind of wine, saying "wine" without a qualifier specifies that it is made from grapes, while adding a qualifier specifies that it's made from that substance.

I do think that Wikipedia's wine article is actually clearer than Encyclopedia Britannica (ironic too since I got a set of them as a kid and Wikipedia is edited by regular users):
"Wine is an alcoholic drink made from fermented fruit. Yeast consumes the sugar in the fruit and converts it to ethanol and carbon dioxide, releasing heat in the process. Wine is most often made from grapes, and the term "wine" generally refers to grape wine when used without any qualification. Even so, wine can be made from a variety of fruit crops, including plum, cherry, pomegranate, blueberry, currant, and elderberry."

Though on that subject, the fact that wines made from fruits other than grapes are called "wine" alone should settle the matter even without looking at dictionaries or encyclopedias:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_wine

 

[mashdar]

And tomato is a fruit. QED!

 

[worlddivides]

And tomato is a fruit. QED!

Indeed.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/foods/...s the same,both varieties resemble white wine.

 

[Johnny2]

If we get back to the original question, I would just simply suggest that grapes do it better than any other fruit. I do blackberries, blueberries, cranberry, and peach. They are all good, but the grape is by far the easiest and the best all around.
I can’t look at this and not get excited:

View attachment 854644
My friend calls me over and tells me, “I have what I wanted; you can have the rest.” …and I find this!

What kind of grapes are those?

 

[mashdar]

Why is a topic about wine in the beginner beer brewing section.

Barley wine? : D

 

[Johnny2]

Barley wine? : D

Barley wine has as much to do with wine as ginger beer with beer.

 

[Lampy]

I see parallels to the contention over nut "milk" in this discussion; though I think calling any fermented fruit beverage "X wine" makes more sense than calling any white, opaque fluid "X milk".