Something I have wondered for a while and never found a satisfactory answer to, how come ales do not benefit from extensive cold conditioning to the same extent lagers do? In other words, why is it uncommon to cold condition an ale for weeks like we do lagers? My understanding is that lagering is mainly for clarity and that top and bottom fermenting yeasts alike go dormant at lagering temps, so why do we store lagers for so long at cold temps but not ales?
why don't ales benefit from cold storage as much as lagers?
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Lagering (or cold conditioning just above freezing) does more than clear the beer. Polyphenols, like those from hops, fall out and are reduced during that time. It increases shelf stability, although that isn't important generally for homebrewers. There is a mellowing of other flavors, allowing for a "crisper" and "cleaner" finish. Usually, in ales you don't want a super crisp finish, or such a clean finish as hop character or yeast character is part of the flavor profile.
This is mostly what I meant by clearing, but either way is this not equally desirable in ales? I certainly do not like tannins in any beer, but I guess they are less noticeable in ables.
This makes much sense. But aside from tannin reduction, how else is mellowing caused?
myndflyte
Well-Known Member
I think mellowing just happens. Have you ever made a salsa or sauce and when you taste it right after it's made it tastes a little off? But when you leave it in the fridge for a couple days and try it later, it tastes so much better. I think it's just a matter of the flavors blending together. At least that's how I look at it.
Well, my understanding is that this isn't really proven (or maybe it is, I don't know), but one theory is that by slowly staging down to lagering temp, you coax the yeast into remaining active at a very low temperature which lager yeast can do but ale yeast cannot, and they continue to work to clean up all the byproducts that are appropriate in ales but not in lagers.
The other theory is that that doesn't happen, that the yeast just drop out and go dormant like they do if you cold crash, and that what you're really doing is just dropping out all the harsher flavor profiles, like Yooper said.
If the latter is the case, then leaving a bottle or kegged beer in the fridge for a prolonged period before consuming will do exactly the same thing. And in either case, there are certainly lagered Ales. The most common cases being Kolsch and Altbier, but you can lager pretty much anything if you want. Scottish Ales would be good lagered, as would Bieres de Garde, or another obvious one is Baltic Porter. Hell, even some commercial Belgian brewers give a little cold conditioning prior to releasing their beer, and that's the last group of beers you'd think of as "lagered".
I get annoyed by the use of "lager" referring to a broad category of beers based on yeast strain as well as the "lagering" process. But that's the American terminology we use, and they mean different things. Lagers should be, but don't have to lagered, and ales can certainly be lagered.
The other theory is that that doesn't happen, that the yeast just drop out and go dormant like they do if you cold crash, and that what you're really doing is just dropping out all the harsher flavor profiles, like Yooper said.
If the latter is the case, then leaving a bottle or kegged beer in the fridge for a prolonged period before consuming will do exactly the same thing. And in either case, there are certainly lagered Ales. The most common cases being Kolsch and Altbier, but you can lager pretty much anything if you want. Scottish Ales would be good lagered, as would Bieres de Garde, or another obvious one is Baltic Porter. Hell, even some commercial Belgian brewers give a little cold conditioning prior to releasing their beer, and that's the last group of beers you'd think of as "lagered".
I get annoyed by the use of "lager" referring to a broad category of beers based on yeast strain as well as the "lagering" process. But that's the American terminology we use, and they mean different things. Lagers should be, but don't have to lagered, and ales can certainly be lagered.
Good points. To further the lagering terminology, a lot of commercial breweries cold condition their beer. The difference is that it is not always as long of a period as true lagering which is at least six weeks at or below freezing. American mega-swill lagers are only "cold conditioned" for 21 days last I heard.
In the great book on hefeweizen by Eric Warner "cold storage for 2-6 weeks" is mentioned at 39-47F. I think all beer benefits from a period of resting at cooler temps. For us, that period is how long we can let it sit in the keg before we drink it!
In the great book on hefeweizen by Eric Warner "cold storage for 2-6 weeks" is mentioned at 39-47F. I think all beer benefits from a period of resting at cooler temps. For us, that period is how long we can let it sit in the keg before we drink it!
estricklin
Well-Known Member
Good point, if you think about it almost all commercial ales are "lagered" in some way for at least some period of time in a clearing tank. Hence one reason why I tell everyone there's no voo doo to lagering.
A lot of proteins tangle together and fall to the bottom during lagering, the yeast can be very slightly active as the temperature is dropping and that can help to clean up some residual off flavor compounds. Many commercial brewers use this time to also carbonate the beer.
I believe Budwiser is lagered for 18 days. I personally have lagered beer anywhere from a few days up to many months and most of the "magic' seems to have happened at about the 3 weeks mark. That's just my personal experience though.
orangehero
Well-Known Member
There are plenty of ales that typically undergo cold conditioning, such as Kölsch and the strong Belgian styles. For other styles it's not necessary or you want freshness or quick turnaround.
Lager yeasts operate in slow motion when compared to ale yeasts. They are still in slow motion while in the lagering, or storage, phase. While you might lager for 6 weeks or more, post fermentation, most ales will have gone through their conditioning stage, which equates to lagering, in a shorter time period.
Try leaving a pale ale in your fermentor for an extra 2 weeks and then in the fridge for an extra month after you would normally drink it and I think you'll agree that it benefits equally when compared to a lager.
Try leaving a pale ale in your fermentor for an extra 2 weeks and then in the fridge for an extra month after you would normally drink it and I think you'll agree that it benefits equally when compared to a lager.
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Personally, I'll stick with this old Palmer definition. Ales yeast can be "Cold Conditioned", but only lager yeast can be . . . well . . . lagered. :cross:
Even though they can mean the same thing, it's about everyone speaking the same language. If you tell someone you're cold conditioning your beer, they should know it was made with ale yeast. If you tell them your lagering your beer, it's lager yeast.
Spot on! along with the "crispness" comment earlier in the thread. They are the same, but different.
There's a lot going on. In my mind, I simply think of it as Issac Newton helping out my beer. Heavy stuff falls to the bottom. Even microscopic heavy stuff. Once all that's gone, the more stable stuff is all that's left, leaving a cleaner, crisper, smoother flavor.
I mostly brew lagers these days. It takes longer, but I am never disappointed. Once I get into the swing of brewing them I find it very hard to get back to an ale brewing mindset. I think I just treat my lagers better for some reason. I baby them. I treat my ales like cheap night workers.
I mostly brew lagers these days. It takes longer, but I am never disappointed. Once I get into the swing of brewing them I find it very hard to get back to an ale brewing mindset. I think I just treat my lagers better for some reason. I baby them. I treat my ales like cheap night workers.
