JVD_X
Well-Known Member
It seems to me that some fly sparging techniques/equipment would cause hot-side aeration issues but it apparently does not. Can someone explain the paradox?
Why doesn't fly-sparging cause hot-side aeration?
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JVD_X
Well-Known Member
Fly sparging introduces a lot of air into the mash does it not? As it is drizzled (or in some cases misted) in the mash?
Baldy_Beer_Brewery
Well-Known Member
HSA is a big waste of worry. Even moreso when it comes to sparging.
+1 on that, a good solid fermentation will clean up most every thing HSA might produce. worry about O2 getting in after the fermentation, and storage temps, thats 99% of how beer stales.
cellardoor
Well-Known Member
HSA really is the boogieman of brewing. Even more so than yeast autolysis. I recommend listing to the Brewstrong podcast on HSA with Dr. Charlie Bamforth. Easily the most informative and enlightening podcast out there.
Because HSA has been pretty much disproven as anything homebrewer's need to worry about, and many commercial brewerie don't concern themselves with it either. It you look at some of the videos of wort falling into fermenters and out of mash tuns and into kettles.
To put it in perspective, do you think THESE GUYS worry about it?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3uyKjLTWJA]YouTube - Transferring from Mash Tun to Boil Kettle[/ame]
Looks pretty airy to me.
To put it in perspective, do you think THESE GUYS worry about it?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3uyKjLTWJA]YouTube - Transferring from Mash Tun to Boil Kettle[/ame]
Looks pretty airy to me.
ShortSnoutBrewing
Kwanesum Chinook Illahee
OMG...he blew into his Mash Tun...How can he do that...The possible spit and contamination....the horror....
OMG...he blew into his Mash Tun...How can he do that...The possible spit and contamination....the horror....
Well it is going to be boiled next afterall.
Even if you do believe in HSA (not sure I do), you don't splash the wort during a fly sparge. You sprinkle water gently onto the grain bed so that you add water without disturbing the grainbed. There really isn't any aeration going on.
To the OP, I think that a lot of the alarm over HSA has continued in brewing circles due to some outdated philosophy. The science is there to support it, but the amount of problem it causes is minuscule in comparison to other things to worry about in brewing.
That podcast with Dr. Bamforth is one of my favorites. I highly recommend you check it out. His basic conclusion is that, yes, there is potential for some HSA, but if a Homebrewer is relatively careful in what he does, it will not even be measureable.
He goes on to say that care in bottling, and limiting O2 exposure at that time is MUCH more important. Also noted is that the rate of degradation in beer is directly proportional to the temperature in which it is stored. Beer stored in warm environs will age at a rate several times that of a chilled beer.
To pretty much all the experienced brewers on this site, HSA is essentially nonexistant. Perhaps in time, all of the popular brewing books will get around to updating their information.
That podcast with Dr. Bamforth is one of my favorites. I highly recommend you check it out. His basic conclusion is that, yes, there is potential for some HSA, but if a Homebrewer is relatively careful in what he does, it will not even be measureable.
He goes on to say that care in bottling, and limiting O2 exposure at that time is MUCH more important. Also noted is that the rate of degradation in beer is directly proportional to the temperature in which it is stored. Beer stored in warm environs will age at a rate several times that of a chilled beer.
To pretty much all the experienced brewers on this site, HSA is essentially nonexistant. Perhaps in time, all of the popular brewing books will get around to updating their information.
ShortSnoutBrewing
Kwanesum Chinook Illahee
boiling will drive off the oxygen too. if HSA is real, it isn't instantaneous. If it were, splash pouring a pint would give you wet cardboard flavor halfway thru the pint. (skunked hops...different story).
and all i know about fly sparging its not THAT turbulent anyhow.
and all i know about fly sparging its not THAT turbulent anyhow.
McCuckerson
Well-Known Member
+1 on the boiling point
. That is why we aerate prior to pitching...... I used to worry about keeping my tubing below the surface of the wort when collecting, but it really doesn't matter. Revvy, great video! thanks. This brings up a good point: I think its time for a "Myth busters of Home Brewing" thread.
Yeah, HSA is there, but it just doesn't show up in homebrew (or much anything else). It just doesn't have that much on effect. I suppose that, if you left your wort hanging around a couple weeks, you might see it, but you'd also have larger problems on your hands.
HSA is on page 137 of the list of things homebrewers need to worry about, somewhere just below a stray scorpion popping out your stopper, crawling into your fermenter, and starting a mariachi band.
TL
HSA is on page 137 of the list of things homebrewers need to worry about, somewhere just below a stray scorpion popping out your stopper, crawling into your fermenter, and starting a mariachi band.
TL
JKoravos
Well-Known Member
Besides all that points already made, oxygen is virtually insoluble in water at mash temperatures and the vapor pressure of water at 150F forces most of the air out of the headspace anyway. I'd imagine you would actually have to splash the crap out of the mash to get oxygen in contact with the compounds that would cause HSA. Most commercial brewers use stirred mashes, so it's obviously not worrying them too much.
chefmike
Well-Known Member
My experience has been this:
I poured a batch from the boil kettle into a bucket at 190* and no chilled it (left it sealed until pitching temp).
It was fine. Drank the whole keg. Enjoyed it immensely.
So not only do I believe all these folks, I believe my experience! I do not worry much anymore. I prefer to have a homebrew!
I poured a batch from the boil kettle into a bucket at 190* and no chilled it (left it sealed until pitching temp).
It was fine. Drank the whole keg. Enjoyed it immensely.
So not only do I believe all these folks, I believe my experience! I do not worry much anymore. I prefer to have a homebrew!
McCuckerson
Well-Known Member
LOL! Chef, I did that too! My valve got clogged with orange peel ( don't want to talk about it), so I poured the whole darn thing into my wynpak. The whole time I was worrying about HSA and not the fact that I was pouring 5 gallons of near-boiling wort by hand, from a pot! OBTW, the no-chill Orange Blossom Ale that should have been ruined by HSA was darn near amazing. Brew on Bro!
WillPall
Well-Known Member
I think this belongs in the recently created "You know you're a brewer when..." thread.
I've also poured a near-boiling pot of wort into my primary, albeit into some chilled water. I noticed no off flavors that I could attribute to oxidation or HSA. It was actually a damn good beer.
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