Why doesn’t everyone BIAB?

[Soulshine2]

A far more important question - with spring around the corner - why doesn't everyone hate the Yankees?

give them time, its still football season

 

[Soulshine2]

Building a hoist, buying a mill and remilling grain plus adding insulation etc sounds like a lot more work than converting a cooler to me... And cheaper.

buy a mill anyway , convert the cooler. safer and work smarter ,not harder

 

[bendog15]

This pic makes me want to switch to electric.

Ss Brewtech is releasing a 20 gal elec pot and controller in Jan/feb. I’m gonna be making that purchase. Will be making the concert to 10 gal full vol BIAB with that bad boy!!! Can’t wait.

 

[GnenieGone]

Faster brew day is appealing. Maybe I didn't give it enough time for recipe modifications but my AG versions of the same brew in BIAB was flat out better. BIAB/PM seemed thin and lacking flavor. But putting old time rock and roll and telling the family "See you in 8hrs" is very appealing also.

 

[eric19312]

TL/DR: Three main reasons not everybody does BIAB:

1. BIAB takes some of the fun and challenge out of it for some.
2. BIAB is not the way our forefathers did it.
3. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

These ignore I think many of the of the reasons people provided on this thread.
My reason was scale and time efficiency. I tried BIAB (modeled) and saw no time advantage to BIAB, a loss of efficiency, and possible cost savings if I was starting out with no equipment but a major investment to migrate to BIAB from where I am now.
@Velnerj might fall into #3 but after considering sees no cost advantages to BIAB
@z-bob mentioned scale, ergonomics and trub to the kettle
@jready mentioned scale and back to back batches
@lump42 pointed out ability to use cast off coolers and plumbing to make his mash tun (reuse recycle repurpose!)
@OG-wan Kenobi is doing BIAB but acknowledged might not be way he would do larger batches
@kh54s10 may fall into your category 3. He is also aprehensive of the hot sticky bag but has his 3V and is happy with it.
@Soulshine2 mentioned ergonomics--for him even on 5 gallon batches the bag looks difficult to handle
@jack13 fits your reason #1

Nobody mentioned forefathers or tradition except those that have chosen to go BIAB. I see nothing wrong with choosing to go BIAB and would strongly recommend new brewers just getting into all grain seriously consider that route. But that doesn't mean I don't have equally valid reasons for choosing not to BIAB and appreciate OP's question about what those might be.

 

[Soulshine2]

Oh ,I'm all about tradition. The OP asked "why doesnt everyone BIAB?".
I gave my answer. More about simplicity and personal safety over ergonomics but it fits in there too. Might not be everyones answer,but its mine. I'm happy with my system. When I'm not,I'll change something. I prefer to keep it simple.
If it aint broke , I don't fix it.
All I can say or suggest is...If you have an all grain system , try BIAB ,you may like it . If not, you can still go back to the way you did it before.

 

[jready]

Ss Brewtech is releasing a 20 gal elec pot and controller in Jan/feb. I’m gonna be making that purchase. Will be making the concert to 10 gal full vol BIAB with that bad boy!!! Can’t wait.

I had a similar set up from Colorado brewing systems. It was nice. If you want 10 gallons of 1.07 or higher you will need to hold some water back. For big beers you might have to stick with 5 gallon batches. At least in my setup 30lbs +- was about capacity with full volume of water

 

[Gravelscratcher]

I originally went 3v, because that's all I knew. That's just what was out there, as far as I knew.
When I 1st heard about BIAB, it seemed like an outlier method, and my understanding was: you had to adjust your grains & hops to accommodate volume differences and loss of efficiency...sounded complicated.
A little research on HBT changed my mind about all that.
Hopefully it all works out, but it seems so much simpler, I can't imagine it won't work out (unless I dont get a good crush).

 

[VTX1300]

I went with the 3 vessel gravity system because that is what I thought was the only way to do it. I didn't know about BIAB when I started. Other than that, my brew day is my stress reliever day. I enjoy the process and the me time. SHMBO usually does girl stuff on brew day and leaves me and the dogs to do our thing.
Brew what you want, how you want. It's a personal choice on equipment and process. I understand many do BIAB due to space and equipment. It's all good. As long as you are brewing and enjoy what you brew.

 

[Gravelscratcher]

It's not the sparging that bugs me, it's the clean up and storage.
I hate washing & putting up dishes, but I love to cook.

 

[LittleRiver]

Building a hoist, buying a mill and remilling grain plus adding insulation etc sounds like a lot more work than converting a cooler to me... And cheaper.

I don't remill grain, it goes through the mill once with a .025" gap. Adding insulation is as simple as putting a blanket or old sleeping bag over the kettle. Cleanup with BIAB is a breeze. There's only one vessel to clean. There's no scooping of wet grain, it's already in a bag that can be emptied on the ground (for the deer) or into a trash container. I just can't buy the argument that BIAB is "a lot more work". I also can't buy the argument that multiple vessel rigs are cheaper.

...I run my hot water from my strike kettle into my tun (gravity)... let it drain to the kettle(gravity again)... no ropes ,no bag, no hoist ,much safer. I let the grains cool before scooping out of the tun...Irrational? I think not.

I never said your process was irrational. I said your fears of being injured by catastrophic bag failure are irrational.

Prove me wrong. Show me examples of people injured by catastrophic bag failure, or show me a calculation of how the forces on the bag can cause it to fail.

 

[z-bob]

I saw a gravity fed 3v system on youtube last year that I really liked; I think it was a British brewer. Fairly low-budget, but I thought it was elegant. If I had a permanent brew shack, that's probably what I would do. But BIAB lets me brew all-grain in my kitchen on the stove and put everything away when I'm done, and my efficiency is about 75% without grinding my grain all the way to flour.

I'm going to try "no-chill" with the one I'm brewing today to circumvent a massive fruit-fly problem. (I'll set the hot wort outside where it's 27 degrees, and I'll pitch the yeast outside tomorrow and seal it all up before I bring it in the house with the FF's.)

 

[govner1]

Because not everyone has the physical ability to deal with the hoist required for a hi gravity 6g AG batch.

 

[Qhrumphf]

i uses to think of homebrewers in the "Pazapazian" and "Palmer" camps. As in those who wing it vs those who listen to brewing science and control things.

These days it's more accurately BIAB vs LODO.

 

[shetc]

I did extract brewing for a couple of years. During that period, I researched how to switch to AG brewing. I came across BIAB and the little light bulb went on! I knew it was the perfect fit for me, that is, 5 gallon batches brewed maybe twice a month. Never looked back.

 

[jcav]

I think it is personal preference and what you enjoy brewing on. I love my three vessel e-herms Kal clone. Once you dial it in, it just produces fantastic beer. Now I also nail all the other aspects of brewing, from sanitation, yeast starters, oxygenate the wort, ferment at the correct temp for the yeast used, purging oxygen from kegs before kegging, clean and sanitze beer lines in the kegerator, etc., so I can't say it's just the system but it is all the things that go into making great beer. That being said, I don't see myself switching after the investment I made into the system I have. I am also a little leary of trying a whole new system when mine flat out works time after time. So I think it is great that all those who BIAB love their systems, but I love my 3 vessel just as much. Happy New Year eveyone!


John

 

[bendog15]

Some very intelligent and thought provoking responses on this thread. By 3V and BIAB brewers alike. For most of us, brew day is an escape from reality, a meditative “me” time when we can indulge in our favorite pastime. Wether youre doin it on a complicated setup or a bare bones minimal rig, it’s your hobby. It’s whatever works for you. Some love the multi vessel rigs. I admit I think the pumps and hoses and several burners looks cool as hell. And they enjoy the process. If I had a garage I would probably be in that category. Others hate doing dishes and longer brew days and want to get it done differently.
Some days I want to cook a beef bourguignon from scratch. Some days I microwave a burrito. I feel there is no right or wrong. It’s your process and as long as you enjoy it, more power to you. When you stop enjoying it, it’s a problem. As I stated in the OP, we’re all making wort. The yeast does the heavy lifting. I was just curious if biab produced a “different” beer. I can see it doesn’t. Cheers to all homebrewers out there. I raise my glass to you.
Best. Hobby. Ever.

 

[pnewgard]

I love biab for my 5 gallon batches. Very simple process. I had efficiency issues until I learned the double crush method. My 3600 watt induction burner is beyond awesome. But heh a 3 vessel system with pumps and control panels...well be still my brewing heart...some day!

 

[kevink]

How big of a BIAB pot and bag would you need for 18.5 gallon/1.065 preboil wort?

 

[trevelynzx]

For many, homebrewing is not just about creating a beer; it is an escape. The more challenging it is, the more of an escape it is. People like to tinker to spark their creativity. They tinker with recipes; tinker with equipment, set ups, and builds; tinker with electronics and programming; tinker with wort (rack into secondaries); tinker with yeast (make starters); tinker with beer (cook); tinker with manifolds and braids. Jury rig keg builds to avoid bottling, develop new and exciting ways to sparge, jury rig guns to fill bottles from keg, create new cleaning compounds; etc. Tinker, tinker, tinker. Build, build, build. Work, work, work. Keep the creative juices flowing. Keep working with their hands and their minds. For these folks, the more work, the more fun it is. And that is OK.

For others, there is a desire to keep it old school with the classic 3-tier setup. i.e., "I'll give up my HLT when they pry it from my cold dead hands." For these folks, Don't tell them sparging (or secondaries) are not necessary. Don't tell them this step or that equipment is not necessary. A bag? Hell, that's cheating. So it is written, so it shall be done. That is OK too.

Still others simply already have what has worked and see no reason to change. If I were starting today, I'd probably go BIAB. I bought a BIAG bag, but what am I supposed to do with my MLT? Watch it collect dust? What about all that time spent looking for a braided hose at the Goodwill. That summer I build the CPVC manifold? Or sparge arm? Or that other part I finally ordered? For these folks, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Perhaps they went too far down the rabbit hole and can't come out. But if it works, it worts; and that is OK as well. We all make beer one way or the other.


TL/DR: Three main reasons not everybody does BIAB:

1. BIAB takes some of the fun and challenge out of it for some.
2. BIAB is not the way our forefathers did it.
3. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

i call BS. our forefathers were the same as us - some would BIAB (or comparable tech for their time) and some would do 3-v. the “tinkerer” vs. the “practical” brains have been a constant since the dawn of humanity.

 

[trevelynzx]

Three reasons I don't BIAB:

1) I brew outside so no place to hang a pulley (no I don't have a garage or a step ladder). I'm not going to hold 20 pounds of hot grains over several gallons of hot wort for several minutes and squeeze a sticky mess to up my efficiency.

2) Because I brew outside I use propane and a burner. I think holding a mash temperature for 60 min would be a constant PIA not to mention the worry of a burnt bag at the bottom of the kettle.

3) Sparging. Never understood how it's done so easily and effectively in biab. Either you plan no sparge, which I bet is what most do, or you'd need another vessel to "batch sparge" into which defeats the simplicity of BIAB. Now with no sparge it means you need to up the grain bill which on the long run costs money and limits you to certain gravities (assuming your limited kettle size).

only the first half of #3 is valid. the rest are junk. unless you mean you’re crafty/ wealthy enough to afford a 3v system but can’t be bothered to get an old ladder or put a hook in the wall?

why are some of the 3v’ers in this thread so uppity?

 

[trevelynzx]

Building a hoist, buying a mill and remilling grain plus adding insulation etc sounds like a lot more work than converting a cooler to me... And cheaper.

none of this makes any sense. which is okay. let’s just call a spade a spade...

 

[trevelynzx]

Because not everyone has the physical ability to deal with the hoist required for a hi gravity 6g AG batch.

completely uninformed.

 

[z-bob]

Nobody mentioned forefathers or tradition except those that have chosen to go BIAB.

That's the most insightful comment in this whole thread. Bravo.

 

[Blazinlow86]

I like doing 2.5g biab test batches on the stove. Then I scale up to 12-18g batches on my 3v Kal clone. As others have mentioned I've had 40 pounds in the mash tun in my basement. I wouldn't wanna deal with hanging the bag out the top at that scale. My systems permanently setup so it's not such a hassle as using a 3v in the backyard. I always recommend any new brewers start on the stove top with small scale biab. Cheers

 

[rmyurick]

Tradition, I guess, is part of it, as well as a small increase in efficiency.

 

[Velnerj]

only the first half of #3 is valid. the rest are junk. unless you mean you’re crafty/ wealthy enough to afford a 3v system but can’t be bothered to get an old ladder or put a hook in the wall?

why are some of the 3v’ers in this thread so uppity?

Huh? Uppity? First of all I don't have a typical 3v system. I have 1 more vessel than the BIAB system. I've got a rigged DIY cooler mash tun, one kettle one burner and a fermenter. How is that so uppity compared to yours?

When I started and considered BIAB I didn't see it viable for me. I brew outside, (read no walls) I don't have pulleys, rope, a step ladder or a mill. If I wanted to go the BIAB route I'd have to invest in a lot more equipment than what I have now. A cooler with some simple plumbing parts seemed not only easier but cheaper as well.

I do plan on someday getting a mill but as for now I gotta rely on my lhbs for it.

 

[Soulshine2]

wow, just the

I don't remill grain, it goes through the mill once with a .025" gap. Adding insulation is as simple as putting a blanket or old sleeping bag over the kettle. Cleanup with BIAB is a breeze. There's only one vessel to clean. There's no scooping of wet grain, it's already in a bag that can be emptied on the ground (for the deer) or into a trash container. I just can't buy the argument that BIAB is "a lot more work". I also can't buy the argument that multiple vessel rigs are cheaper.



I never said your process was irrational. I said your fears of being injured by catastrophic bag failure are irrational.

Prove me wrong. Show me examples of people injured by catastrophic bag failure, or show me a calculation of how the forces on the bag can cause it to fail.

I'm not going to continue this with you.
If you like what you're doing ,fine.
I like brewing how I have been . It works for me.

 

[Yooper]

You're willing to accept the additional complexity, expense, and cleanup of a multiple vessel system, but don't accept the minimal effort & expense to rig a hoist point?

The sticky mess argument is not valid, as there's no need to squeeze the bag. Gravity will drain it into the kettle. When it's fully drained it is light and easy to handle, just grab it by the non-sticky top part and put it into a bucket.

I brew 11 gallon batches in my (indoor) laundry room. No way I can lift that much heavy wet grain, or rig a hoist!

I weigh 135 pounds, and pumps and a tippy dump allow me to brew whatever I want.

No problem to those who BIAB, but I think belittling people who do brew differently is. This whole thread smacks of being insulting to people who have a different method. I've met thousands of homebrewers over the years, and they all tend to be easy going people who share ideas and the love of brewing. No need to dismiss other's systems.

 

[kh54s10]

I still don't get the time savings. Yes, if you are comparing BIAB to fly sparging 3 vessel. No, if you are comparing to batch sparge gravity system. Unless you are doing a no sparge, the steps are the same. The clean up is the same. You clean a bag and a boil kettle. I clean a mash tun and a boil kettle.

I have done both and for me there is no time savings, in fact I can clean my mash tun faster than I can clean the bag.

 

[madscientist451]

I started doing BIAB in a cooler a few years back and I also wondered why everyone didn't do it? Retailers and equipment manufacturers can't make much money if you buy a round cooler at Walmart, a spigot and a BIAB bag, so they aren't going to advocate that kind of simple rig. But some people like a big shiny rig, pumps, hoses, 3 burners and have the space in the garage for all that stuff, so if that makes them happy, I'm for it.
Cleaning the bag is an extra chore, but I get all my grain out pretty quick, so I guess that's about even. Never having to worry about a stuck sparge is a plus.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Back in the day when I dabbled in BIAB before I switched to a more traditional setup, I reused the grain bag as many times as I could.

Cleaning that took a LOT longer than dumping out a cooler and hitting the inside and false bottom with a hose.

I used to "sparge" by first squeezing the bag then pouring water through it.

My efficiency was decent (mid 70s), but a far, far cry from the low-mid 90s efficiency I get from continuous sparging.

BIAB has a couple perks. No worry about stuck runoff being the big one. It's also easy for extract brewers to transition to since you just need a big bag.

But once you get to bigger batches or big beers, I think the effort or setup to hoist that bag blows all the appeal away.

Plus lower efficiency. Plus scorching risk if you try to direct heat a step mash.

 

[dandw12786]

I've never done it as I enjoy hanging out in the garage and I like my setup.

However, I just got back into this after a hiatus after a few years and only got three batches done before it started getting cold outside. This means the hoses get emptied out and put away, and if I do have a day that's warm enough to brew its an extra hour or so getting everything back out. Plus, having my wort cooling water draining down the driveway in winter is kind of a recipe for disaster later when it freezes that evening. So my kegerator is sitting empty.

I should really look into BIAB at least for the winter months. I've got a decent gas stove that I think could handle the 7 gallon boil, my hood vents outdoors so my house wouldn't smell like a brewery too much (not an issue for me, but I doubt my wife would appreciate it), and while my keggle is too big my old 10 gallon aluminum pot should work well enough.

Maybe I'll give it a shot this winter.

 

[mpdog]

Back in the day when I dabbled in BIAB before I switched to a more traditional setup, I reused the grain bag as many times as I could.

Cleaning that took a LOT longer than dumping out a cooler and hitting the inside and false bottom with a hose.

I used to "sparge" by first squeezing the bag then pouring water through it.

My efficiency was decent (mid 70s), but a far, far cry from the low-mid 90s efficiency I get from continuous sparging.

BIAB has a couple perks. No worry about stuck runoff being the big one. It's also easy for extract brewers to transition to since you just need a big bag.

But once you get to bigger batches or big beers, I think the effort or setup to hoist that bag blows all the appeal away.

Plus lower efficiency. Plus scorching risk if you try to direct heat a step mash.

All of the above. I built my setup incrementally, starting with a kettle and a grain bag. Scorched the first batch, got very bad efficiency. Second batch did better, but realized pulling the grain bag out by hand wasn't the best, since I needed to suspended it there to drain. A hoist seemed inconvenient since my kettle burner is already waist-high and the pulley would need to be well above. Added an insulated SS mash tun and used the kettle for double purpose (heating the water and recirculating much like Blichmann Breweasy). Efficiency was better but not great, and my stacked setup wasn't all that stable. Added a HLT for herms recirculating and fly sparging. Works fine, good efficiency. I have enough space for 3v and I have time to clean the MLT while it boils anyway..

 

[GnenieGone]

I should really look into BIAB at least for the winter months. I've got a decent gas stove that I think could handle the 7 gallon boil, my hood vents outdoors so my house wouldn't smell like a brewery too much (not an issue for me, but I doubt my wife would appreciate it), and while my keggle is too big my old 10 gallon aluminum pot should work well enough.

Maybe I'll give it a shot this winter.

Think that's the key. There's a purpose/time for everything. For me a quick 4-5% easy drinking beer, sure why spend 8hrs when 3 works. I even do a no-boil Hefe with all DME/RO/5min boiled hops added. 15min from gathering to end of clean. It's turns out really nice. But for me a 12% RIS or Belgian Quad needs to be done AG (traditional). Creativity is one of th reasons we get into brewing in the first place so why not experiment anyway? Right?

I use my 6in x 14in SS strainer for "BIAB". Fits 5lbs of grain. Add some DME later on..easy peasy.

 

[Gravelscratcher]

No boil sounds interesting...I need to look into that.

 

[kevin58]

"why doesn't everyone BIAB?" Because there is no one, right way to make beer.

 

[GnenieGone]

No boil sounds interesting...I need to look into that.

Here it is. 3.5gallon RO. I add some gypsum/Calcium Chloride for old time sake. Working on a No Boil Saison IPA using all cryo hops also.

 

[LittleRiver]

...No problem to those who BIAB, but I think belittling people who do brew differently is. This whole thread smacks of being insulting to people who have a different method...

You've made the assumption that my intent was to be insulting, which is not the case. Comments were made that BIAB is not safe:

"...I'm leery that the bag could break should I attempt to raise it to drain and I will have hot wet grains or 150 degree water all over me. Just not an ergonomic or safe..."

His fear (his emotion) is real, I'm not questioning that. If he's fearful of BIAB he most certainly should not brew that way. I honestly don't care how he brews. If he's having fun he's doing it right.

But if he's going to post on a public forum that BIAB is not safe, then it's OK for me to post that the fear of catastrophic bag failure is irrational, i.e. it does not have a basis in reason or logic (it's an emotional reaction). Can anyone cite an instance of catastrophic failure of a BIAB bag?

People may read this thread for many years to come, so the incorrect statement that BIAB is not safe needed to be challenged. That's not an act of insult.

 

[Gravelscratcher]

Here it is. 3.5gallon RO. I add some gypsum/Calcium Chloride for old time sake. Working on a No Boil Saison IPA using all cryo hops also.View attachment 604554

I was thinking cryo hops would be better for a no boil too (assuming hops are put in at mash, and not boiled separately).
I may experiment w/ a SMaSH recipe w/ cryo hops or something.
I just read a small article on no boil, and it sounds pretty cool.

Edit:
The article I read was a AG/BIAB/No Boil/No Chill.
He had good results.
He did all his hops in the mash too.