Why doesn’t everyone BIAB?

[RM-MN]

Did I miss the news? When did EVERYONE'S grain bills become 20 Pound's? Mine can get up to 60 pounds but from what your saying I may be wasting alot of grain.

What is the volume of you wort you extract. I would expect my grain bill to be in the neighbood of 16 to 20 pounds for a 5 gallon batch and expect the OG to be 1.050 to 1.070. If you need 60 pounds of grain to reach that range of OG with a 5 gallon batch you are indeed wasting grain. Your mash efficiency is directly related to the quality of the crush and with BIAB that can be a very fine crush. From there further loses would be from a poor sparge and wort that doesn't make it to the fermenter due to hoses and pumps if used or a lot of material left behind in a whirlpool.

 

[Yooper]

Also any man worth their salt should be able lift a 20 pound / 10 kg bag, hold it up for 2 seconds with one arm while you set the strainer/grill on the boiler with the other without a damn pulley. Now if you have bad arithiris and your joints cannot stand the short stress, that is a different story. But sicknesses not withstanding 20 pounds is nothing if you really think about it. If you have done any physical labor in your life I am sure you have lifted and carried something heavier at some point, maybe a CRT TV or something.

Not everyone who brews is a man, and at 133 pounds, I'm not even a very big woman. I'm pretty darn strong, but my grain bills are in the neighborhood of 25-28 pounds, and with the water and grain, it's heavy! I brew indoors with my electric HERMS, usually 11 gallon batches, and rely on my pumps to help out. It doesn't make me less of a brewer who can lift more than me, or who is a different gender. I'm a decent brewer.

I just don't get the insults over my 3v vs someone who does BIAB. Why does anybody feel the need to demean others' systems/techniques?

Did I miss the news? When did EVERYONE'S grain bills become 20 Pound's? Mine can get up to 60 pounds but from what your saying I may be wasting alot of grain.

This- some do 1 gallon batches, and some do 1 barrel batches. There isn't a one-size-fits-all method.

We need to be thoughtful and helpful when discussions like this come up- plenty of us have reasons to do what we do, and it's not because we're simply ignorant.

 

[Blazinlow86]

What is the volume of you wort you extract. I would expect my grain bill to be in the neighbood of 16 to 20 pounds for a 5 gallon batch and expect the OG to be 1.050 to 1.070. If you need 60 pounds of grain to reach that range of OG with a 5 gallon batch you are indeed wasting grain. Your mash efficiency is directly related to the quality of the crush and with BIAB that can be a very fine crush. From there further loses would be from a poor sparge and wort that doesn't make it to the fermenter due to hoses and pumps if used or a lot of material left behind in a whirlpool.

The title of the tread is why doesn't everybody use biab. Id imagine if the title was changed to be "why doesnt everybody that brews 5 gallons or less at a time use biab" there wouldnt be much action as using a 3v for that purpose **could** be seen as overkill and i image majority of the 3v brewers are doing larger batch sizes. that being said removing the wort from the grain is still the way 99% of beer is brewed around the world and theres a reason for that. id be very surprised to see the professionals winching a grain bag out the top of there equipment anytime soon. cheers

 

[LittleRiver]

...removing the wort from the grain is still the way 99% of beer is brewed around the world and theres a reason for that. id be very surprised to see the professionals winching a grain bag...

True, but neither this forum nor this thread is about commercial brewing.

The 2018 General Homebrewer Survey from Brulosophy got this result from the 2700 home brewers that responded:

 

[applescrap]

That is interesting idea. I know Marshal over at Brulosophy has started calling them fabric filters instead of bags and pointed out possibility of using in mash tun. It would be awesome if the bag was disposable. I could hoist it out of my mash tun at end of the lauter, swing it over my trash can and let it go.

Right now I move my mash tun off the brew stand to cool a bit. If in a hurry I'll run a few gallons of cold water through the grain and let that drain. Then scoop out the grain into a 6 gallon bucket lined with a hefty bag. Then tie off the bag and dump it into the trash can. That moving the mash tun off the stand (important cause otherwise it never cools down due to proximity to my bk burner) and lifting the bucket of spent, moist, grain into the trash are both strenuous enough to let me know I'd not want to do this with a bag full of hot and much wetter grain.

Be interested in others' experience getting the grain out of the grain bag and into your trash. 30 pounds of loose wet grain are not going into my trash.

Yeah you would lift the bag out and open it straight in the bag with no mess. When my dumpster is just right, I dump in there. You hold the edge, actually works well. Filter is exactly right, its a fabric filter. Here, even wet and dirty you can see its very fine. With a vorlauf might produce clear wort and you could always squeeze if you so like. Maybe parti gyle a larger batch and with a squeeze, it will help you get a 2 for 1 brew day. Idk though. Btw I am seriously considering pet bags for fermenter. Simple clean up. You have to buy them in bulk last I checked, but they would last forever.

 

[LittleRiver]

...Be interested in others' experience getting the grain out of the grain bag and into your trash. 30 pounds of loose wet grain are not going into my trash.

After gravity has fully drained the bag into the kettle, I drop the bag into a bucket. I drape the top of the bag around the outside of the bucket and tighten the drawstring (Wilser bag). I take that to the woods and dump it out for the deer to eat.

The bag inverts and empties the contents, but stays attached to the bucket. This makes emptying the bag really easy, with no mess. You could do the same thing over a trash can lined with a trash bag.

 

[Blazinlow86]

True, but neither this forum nor this thread is about commercial brewing.

The 2018 General Homebrewer Survey from Brulosophy got this result from the 2700 home brewers that responded:

View attachment 604926

Again I'm only speaking about the original posters title which reads "why don't ALL brewers use biab. You seem to be reading the title incorrect. The question wasn't "why don't all 5 gallon homebrewers use biab". Big difference. Cheers

 

[z-bob]

True, but neither this forum nor this thread is about commercial brewing.

The 2018 General Homebrewer Survey from Brulosophy got this result from the 2700 home brewers that responded:

View attachment 604926

There are at least 2 ways to interpret that. Either the more experienced brewers have gotten over BIAB (or dismissed it as a fad because of their vast experience), or they started brewing before BIAB was a thing, so they are already invested in (and comfortable with) 3V and fly-sparging. The data is interesting, but I don't think you can draw any conclusions from it.

There was a comment earlier about professional brewers. I know one who also homebrews by the 1/2 barrel, and he uses BIAB at home. He likes to post suggestive pictures of his huge sack Obviously the method doesn't scale up well to multi-barrel breweries.

I don't really have a dog in this fight, I just like for people to make informed decisions; whatever they decide is fine.

 

[LittleRiver]

There are at least 2 ways to interpret that. Either the more experienced brewers have gotten over BIAB (or dismissed it as a fad because of their vast experience), or they started brewing before BIAB was a thing, so they are already invested in (and comfortable with) 3V and fly-sparging.

You're right, it can be interpreted more than one way. I think your second scenario is the most likely. A lot of folks started before BIAB was even a choice, and many of them are too invested in their gear/method to consider changing. People new to brewing can choose to go BIAB, and obviously many have.

The data is interesting, but I don't think you can draw any conclusions from it...

You can draw the conclusion that BIAB is currently the most popular method for all grain home brewing.

 

[NewJersey]

The title of the tread is why doesn't everybody use biab. Id imagine if the title was changed to be "why doesnt everybody that brews 5 gallons or less at a time use biab" there wouldnt be much action as using a 3v for that purpose **could** be seen as overkill and i image majority of the 3v brewers are doing larger batch sizes. that being said removing the wort from the grain is still the way 99% of beer is brewed around the world and theres a reason for that. id be very surprised to see the professionals winching a grain bag out the top of there equipment anytime soon. cheers

exactly. The vast majority of us are doing 5 gallon and slightly smaller number are doing 10 gallon. so, in 10 gallon pot (to make 5 gallons) or a 20 gallon pot (to make 10 gallons) there is no reason to not use a biab setup.
At this scale it makes perfect sense.
We're not making 5bbls of beer!

 

[Blazinlow86]

exactly. The vast majority of us are doing 5 gallon and slightly smaller number are doing 10 gallon. so, in 10 gallon pot (to make 5 gallons) or a 20 gallon pot (to make 10 gallons) there is no reason to not use a biab setup.
At this scale it makes perfect sense.
We're not making 5bbls of beer!

Agreed using the biab/3v method is a great option at the 5-10 gallon scale. Because I brew larger batches then that typically in my basement, have a dedicated open space to leave my system setup, have tons of free time, and not to be a smartass but basically unlimited homebrewing budget I went 3v. Maybe im just a sucker as i do ALL the things Brulosophy claims are bs too. cave men made beer after all. cheers

 

[Blazinlow86]

True, but neither this forum nor this thread is about commercial brewing.

The 2018 General Homebrewer Survey from Brulosophy got this result from the 2700 home brewers that responded:

View attachment 604926

what does that chart have to do with the question? its about why people **didnt** go biab. seems to me the only people that can really answer the question is the people that didnt go biab correct? most of us have saying we either do larger batches than most or we dont like or cant deal with the bag for whatever reason. how hard is it to understand?

 

[Dland]

I wonder how many batches of brew could have been made instead of this thread?

 

[Blazinlow86]

no kidding. its about a page of people explaining there reason for not choosing biab. then another 13 pages of biab users saying there incorrect. in all honesty im pretty sure it was a troll/bait thread to begin with lol

 

[MaaZeus]

Did I miss the news? When did EVERYONE'S grain bills become 20 Pound's? Mine can get up to 60 pounds but from what your saying I may be wasting alot of grain.

The persons I was replying to, implying that lifting and holding a 20 pound bag (I am loosely estimating he is doing 5 gallon/~20 liter patches, the most common size for homebrewers) is somehow hard which I find ridiculous idea for any adult person who has ever lifted more than a single pint of beer at a time with his arms. Right now you are redherring and putting words into my mouth. Anyway, what I did find ridiculous was the idea that you need to HOLD the bag up for extended periods of time. No BIAB brewer does that, I don't even understand where he got that idea from or maybe I just misunderstood his words badly.

I need one of those so bad. I have been wondering about a grate. Yes, it's flat, but that would spread the grains out. They seem to give sweet liquor up better that way. Otherwise its like it keeps some. Anyways the grate is stronger and could take a little more force. Originally I had two old refrigerator grates that I use stacked. Never thought of using the oven grate or buying one fairly easily I imagine. Since my Kettle sits in the middle of the table I have to reach out for it and lift the bag from there.

I don't know how much a soaking bag of grains weighs, but extended from my body like that I know it's not light. Sounds like you are pretty strong too, like me. I am so thankful for my strength. Yesterday I sawed a rusty drain nut off my wall in this little hole by hand. Holding the hacksaw in my ginormous hands. Then chisled it out, hah, with a little jewlers screwdriver. Sorry beating around the bush here. I try not to judge a persons worth by their strength, and I have added a cool video of a hero of mine. A no legged wrestler. I actually saw a no legged wrestler growing up. I know you were just sayin, but here you go

I do admit I am a huge and strong-cored guy (~1,93 meters and ~100kg weight) but I'm no body builder, just someone who does physical labor at work. But I still do find it hilarious seeing people on youtube having pulleys for their 5 gallon BIAB patches, something I lift with one arm and barely even notice the weight. And with that I mean just lifting and moving it around, holding anything up in static extended pose is a different story. Anyway, I'm not THAT strong that it would be anything special, I am pretty sure a 24 pack of 0.33cl bulk lager cans weights more than that and that is the size every bulk lager drinker (I used to be one), big and small, hauls around every friday from shop to home to get wasted.

 

[Qhrumphf]

This entire thread from the OP on has been BIABers suggesting traditional multi-vessel brewing is inferior.

And it doesn't suggest BIAB is more popular. By numbers batch sparging and continuous sparging (ie combined 3v system brewing) still outnumbers BIAB.

Some of us DID start with BIAB and moved to 3 vessel.

Completely aside, the "3v" part makes me chuckle. Professionally a "vessel" doesn't include water tanks, so "3 vessel" as used by most homebrewers is known as "2 vessel". 3 vessel is commonly mash/lauter, boil kettle, and whirlpool kettle. Many larger pros with 4 vessel brewhouses are using "6 vessel" or more by homebrew terms (mash, lauter, boil, whirlpool, hot liquor, cold liquor, with some really large ones having more than that.

Oh, and there are indeed some pro (nano scale only) systems that use a BIAB type setup with a basket in place of a bag. Probably max at 1-2bbl but can't say I've researched.

 

[Blazinlow86]

The persons I was replying to, implying that lifting and holding a 20 pound bag (I am loosely estimating he is doing 5 gallon/~20 liter patches, the most common size for homebrewers) is somehow hard which I find ridiculous idea for any adult person who has ever lifted more than a single pint of beer at a time with his arms. Right now you are redherring and putting words into my mouth. Anyway, what I did find ridiculous was the idea that you need to HOLD the bag up for extended periods of time. No BIAB brewer does that, I don't even understand where he got that idea from or maybe I just misunderstood his words badly.




I do admit I am a huge and strong-cored guy (~1,93 meters and ~100kg weight) but I'm no body builder, just someone who does physical labor at work. But I still do find it hilarious seeing people on youtube having pulleys for their 5 gallon BIAB patches, something I lift with one arm and barely even notice the weight. And with that I mean just lifting and moving it around, holding anything up in static extended pose is a different story. Anyway, I'm not THAT strong that it would be anything special, I am pretty sure a 24 pack of 0.33cl bulk lager cans weights more than that and that is the size every bulk lager drinker (I used to be one), big and small, hauls around every friday from shop to home to get wasted.

see post 134 above. someone replys they dont want to lift a 20 pound bag and your explaining why there incorrect.

 

[MaaZeus]

Not everyone who brews is a man, and at 133 pounds, I'm not even a very big woman. I'm pretty darn strong, but my grain bills are in the neighborhood of 25-28 pounds, and with the water and grain, it's heavy! I brew indoors with my electric HERMS, usually 11 gallon batches, and rely on my pumps to help out. It doesn't make me less of a brewer who can lift more than me, or who is a different gender. I'm a decent brewer.

I just don't get the insults over my 3v vs someone who does BIAB. Why does anybody feel the need to demean others' systems/techniques?




This- some do 1 gallon batches, and some do 1 barrel batches. There isn't a one-size-fits-all method.

We need to be thoughtful and helpful when discussions like this come up- plenty of us have reasons to do what we do, and it's not because we're simply ignorant.

My apologies maam. I was merely assuming that beer brewing is a male dominated hobby, hence the use of word man. And I never insulted the 3-pot system, I was merely pointing out the so bad logical fallacy in the post I quoted because it was so grave that I couldn't let it slide but had to get it out of my system and shoot it down, bluntly or otherwise. And this is not one size fits all hobby but I do hold a belief that 5 gallons / 20-25 liters IS the most common size people brew at. Those are the buckets you see in any general store and that is the size most beer and wine kits are designed for where most people start. People do brew smaller but in their case my point is even stronger. And then of course there are systems bordering a comercial macro brewer but I think its safe to say they are anomalies and outliers amongst hobbyists.

 

[MaaZeus]

see post 134 above. someone replys they dont want to lift a 20 pound bag and your explaining why there incorrect.

If they don't want to, they don't have to. I am just saying its not hard but just because it is not hard for an adult person doesnt mean they HAVE to start lifting it. What is completely incorrect is the fricking need to hold it up and letting it drip BY HAND. That was my petpeeve with the original post I quoted and what switched me into a rant mode.

*Edit* also am I wrong with my assumption that when a person says that he does not wan't to lift the 20 pound bag he is saying that because he thinks it is hard?

 

[Blazinlow86]

If they don't want to, they don't have to. I am just saying its not hard but just because it is not hard for an adult person doesnt mean they HAVE to start lifting it. What is completely incorrect is the fricking need to hold it up and letting it drip BY HAND. That was my petpeeve with the original post I quoted and what switched me into a rant mode.

*Edit* also am I wrong with my assumption that when a person says that he does not wan't to lift the 20 pound bag he is saying that because he thinks it is hard?

Possibly. Does it even matter. He doesn't want to lift a 20 pound bag. That's his answer to the question. Seems pretty reasonable to me. Cheers

 

[MaaZeus]

Possibly. Does it even matter. He doesn't want to lift a 20 pound bag. That's his answer to the question. Seems pretty reasonable to me. Cheers

Maybe not. But I do now realise that maybe I went bit off the rails with my original post, considering what point I was meaning to counter in the first place. Cheers.

 

[applescrap]

Haha, lmao, I hold it over the kettle by hand. I am the caveman in actuality. Really would like to stop doing that. I would also curl the bag in the yard for fun. Hey, what say we, I didnt demean 3v, 2v or biab. I actually have learned a lot of the rationale behind a 3v choice. Plenty of time, big brew space, keeping it set up. Sounds awesome. If you are in an appartment 3v probably not the best. 2v systems sound perfect for me. But I remain a 20g pot away and a good collander from what I need for 10g fv brewing. Ultimately, I see batch sparing as a really good option too, especially 2 or 3 batch sparges. I want to try 2 or 3 batch sparges and maybe I could sneak an extra 5g mild or something out of the deal. I think they do this in England. I am fascinated by lots of runnings and mixing different strength beers.

 

[z-bob]

This entire thread from the OP on has been BIABers suggesting traditional multi-vessel brewing is inferior.

Really?? I've been trying pretty hard to not suggest that!

 

[SteveH aka shetc]

Whoa, this took off to quick, and I didnt get to chime in. I wanted to start reasonably inexpensive. So there you go. You get a bag and a pot and a stove and away you go. Whats not to like? Turns out there is plenty to not like, and plenty to like as with any system. Although I will probably stick with biab, I have some considerations which I will share below for whatever thats worth. This rabbit hole is deep and I want to go in full monty but cant right now. Yes, full monty (ok not really full monty)

You move water or you move grains. Heard this once and its true. To op you are correct 20 g for 10g fv brewing. I made mistake of 15g and I can brew 10g fv but only lower gravity. For larger I have been considering topping off or sparging. Maybe even 25. I use two bags, you could use three if you like. That solves a problem right there. The easiest way to do this is a wench. Since I dont want to put a hole in my upper deck roof I use two bags. I will likely get and use a grate over the top at some point. Then you only need a kettle and the grate or huge strainer of some kind.

As it is I use a collander from the wedding pasta set over a bucket. It fits perfectly over the bucket but some wort can trickle down the sides. Then using disposable gloves I squeeze the grains into the bucket. I do this as I am heating so no time lost. So I have been considering a cooler for a while. Started a thread on this actually. Also I have no pony in this race. I am only looking for the easiest and most sensible way to get this done. Many dont understand me or this but so is life.

I mean I use a bucket and collander anyways, why not just use a cooler. Good mash temp keeping, easy cleaning, inexpensive, and so much to like. Denny conn has used the same one for like 500 batches and he seems laid back enough. This is a decent way to go. A bag in a cooler. Now is the real down and dirty. I can handily by myself lift 15 gallons of water wort around. Some of you can and some of you cant. So a pump might be required. I firmly believe smaller brewers and their ingenuity is way over looked. They provide many tips on easy brewing. I could learn a lot from them. I am more gorilla like. Honestly, I am so grateful and feel blessed to be strong enough to brew 10g easily, manually. You wouldn't know it looking at me. Looking at me you would see a chubby little 5'9 guy who thinks he is 5 10.

I digress. Combining all of these ideas and brew methods strikes me as a good way to go. I brewed 10g no chill the other day in under 2 and a half hours. With chilling I am right at 3 hours. Here is my rig. Small, tidy, fast, and effective imo. Thats it. That kettle and the element. With small bucket and collander. Your question has been answered already. A grainfather seems a clever way to go. Using a filter bag in a 3v system seems like an idea worth entertaining. Ultimately moving water or grain around without a pump or wench will be difficult. A 20g cooler and a 15g kettle would be an easy way to go fv quasi biab.

View attachment 604731View attachment 604732

"The easiest way to do this is a wench."

What does your wench look like?

 

[LittleRiver]

what does that chart have to do with the question? its about why people **didnt** go biab. seems to me the only people that can really answer the question is the people that didnt go biab correct? most of us have saying we either do larger batches than most or we dont like or cant deal with the bag for whatever reason. how hard is it to understand?

Re-read the original post (even if it's a troll, it's a good question for discussion).

It's a guy who does multi vessel brewing, but had recurring stuck sparge issues. He started using a bag in his cooler to get rid of that problem. The bag worked so well he is ditching his cooler and going to single vessel BIAB. The question is why doesn't everybody do that?

[He posted the question on this homebrewing web site, so by "everybody" he's not addressing commercial brewers, he's addressing home brewers.]

Some people (Yooper for example) have posted valid reasons why they don't BIAB. I don't see BIAB brewers challenging those valid reasons.

What has been challenged is the invalid stuff. People have posted that BIAB is more work, that bags could catastrophically fail, that you take a hit on conversion efficiency, that it's more expensive, that extra grain is needed, that lifting the bag is an overly onerous task, that it's unsafe, etc.

The experienced BIAB brewers have responded to show those arguments to be what they are: myths, misunderstandings, ignorance, and irrational fears.

[I don't mean any of that as an insult. I realize that last paragraph will sound arrogant, but I'm genuinely not saying it from a mindset of arrogance. I'm just stating the facts as I know them to be true. As I've already posted, there is no "correct" way to brew. If you're having fun you're doing it right.]

The reason I posted the survey chart is to show that BIAB is no small slice of the home brewing community. There is a definite trend of growth for BIAB. I think it's safe to extrapolate that into the future, since the benefits of BIAB are so tangible to so many home brewers. That is directly relevant to the original question of why don't more people BIAB. More people will.

 

[lump42]

You're right, it can be interpreted more than one way. I think your second scenario is the most likely. A lot of folks started before BIAB was even a choice, and many of them are too invested in their gear/method to consider changing. People new to brewing can choose to go BIAB, and obviously many have.



You can draw the conclusion that BIAB is currently the most popular method for all grain home brewing.

If you look at the past years surveys he's done, there has been a slow steady increase of BIAB, fly sparge holding steady, batch sparge lossing ground to BIAB and all-in-one.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Re-read the original post (even if it's a troll, it's a good question for discussion).

It's a guy who does multi vessel brewing, but had recurring stuck sparge issues. He started using a bag in his cooler to get rid of that problem. The bag worked so well he is ditching his cooler and going to single vessel BIAB. The question is why doesn't everybody do that?

[He posted the question on this homebrewing web site, so by "everybody" he's not addressing commercial brewers, he's addressing home brewers.]

Some people (Yooper for example) have posted valid reasons why they don't BIAB. I don't see BIAB brewers challenging those valid reasons.

What has been challenged is the invalid stuff. People have posted that BIAB is more work, that bags could catastrophically fail, that you take a hit on conversion efficiency, that it's more expensive, that extra grain is needed, that lifting the bag is an overly onerous task, that it's unsafe, etc.

The experienced BIAB brewers have responded to show those arguments to be what they are: myths, misunderstandings, ignorance, and irrational fears.

[I don't mean any of that as an insult. I realize that last paragraph will sound arrogant, but I'm genuinely not saying it from a mindset of arrogance. I'm just stating the facts as I know them to be true. As I've already posted, there is no "correct" way to brew. If you're having fun you're doing it right.]

The reason I posted the survey chart is to show that BIAB is no small slice of the home brewing community. There is a definite trend of growth for BIAB. I think it's safe to extrapolate that into the future, since the benefits of BIAB are so tangible to so many home brewers. That is directly relevant to the original question of why don't more people BIAB. More people will.

I don't think anyone has had any irrational fears in the thread. Do you have any SPECIFIC examples. one person said they don't have a good method to hang a winch setup. A biab user replied he was incorrect and that if he can install a ball valve in a cooler he should be able to build a support setup even though he's never met the poster or been to his house. Another posted they don't want to lift the bag. Biab user replied any man worth his salt can do it easily and carried on about how strong they are. Another mentioned they don't want deal with the bag catching the thermowell or spilling sticky wort possiblity. Biab user states that if the bag is made properly that's not possible. For a thread asking why people did NOT choose biab you sure have alot to say. You don't have to prove everyones opinion is wrong. Your not making better beer than non biab brewers just because you spent less money on equipment and have 5 more minutes to spare because you don't have to clean a mash tun. Out of curiosity why didnt you choose a 3v setup?. In your opinion does biab make better wort than a traditional setup? why do you think that pros building new brewhouses arent choosing biab? cheers

 

[Blazinlow86]

Oh I missed another good one. Someone mentioned they are doing 18 gallon batches and biab is to cumbersome for there specific layout. Biab users reply was they were making too mush beer, and cant understand why anyone would make that much beer in the first place lol....

 

[Rodent]

also am I wrong with my assumption that when a person says that he does not wan't to lift the 20 pound bag he is saying that because he thinks it is hard?

in my case? you are 100% incorrect in your assumption.

my back simply will not cooperate with such a maneuver - there are days it's painful simply carrying an empty 10 gallon boil kettle up from the basement to the kitchen where I brew. prior to my back injury, I worked construction and had no issues packing heavy loads. those days are long gone, and some days even getting up from a chair can be a painfully debilitating ordeal that is challenging at best.

I sure hope the day never comes where you find yourself on the opposite side of an injury that leaves you whimpering every time you bend down to put on your shoes, carry out the trash, bring a 5lb bag of sugar up from downstairs, or have to stand still in place for more than 90 seconds. if that day ever does come, and I surely hope it never does, I suspect you'll have a change of heart on many of your noted assumptions and beliefs about other people and their preference for not wanting to do (or not do) things

 

[Gravelscratcher]

I think it’s time to RDWAHAHB.

 

[Bobby_M]

Portions of this thread play out in my shop on a daily basis. I've been around long enough to understand why people walk in looking to upgrade a ragtag 3 vessel system to a polished matching-kettle system.

<sidebar> I've been brewing for 13 years and switched to eBIAB about 4 years ago. I'm currently making the best beer of my life and I get it done in less than 4 hours.

I don't go into every conversation immediately cutting people down and telling them they are wasting their money to work harder and clean more vessels. However, I do inquire about their motivations. There are a lot of times where people want to simplify the brew day and I have to remind them that a 3 vessel HERMS system with two pumps is not necessarily the way to get there. A lot of times, the reason they think they have to use a traditional system is because they learned to brew with a neighbor and that's always how it's been done.

Yes, there is also a stigma with BIAB as some cut rate, half assed method of brewing. When I hear that nonsense, I pour a sample and point to the wall of blue ribbons.

My mission is to get people into the type of brewing system that best addresses their motivations even if I don't share them. You want to mimick a pro system because you're a gear head. Awesome, here you go. You want to make a day of it and don't really care about how long it takes to clean up?

 

[Blazinlow86]

Portions of this thread play out in my shop on a daily basis. I've been around long enough to understand why people walk in looking to upgrade a ragtag 3 vessel system to a polished matching-kettle system.

<sidebar> I've been brewing for 13 years and switched to eBIAB about 4 years ago. I'm currently making the best beer of my life and I get it done in less than 4 hours.

I don't go into every conversation immediately cutting people down and telling them they are wasting their money to work harder and clean more vessels. However, I do inquire about their motivations. There are a lot of times where people want to simplify the brew day and I have to remind them that a 3 vessel HERMS system with two pumps is not necessarily the way to get there. A lot of times, the reason they think they have to use a traditional system is because they learned to brew with a neighbor and that's always how it's been done.

Yes, there is also a stigma with BIAB as some cut rate, half assed method of brewing. When I hear that nonsense, I pour a sample and point to the wall of blue ribbons.

My mission is to get people into the type of brewing system that best addresses their motivations even if I don't share them. You want to mimick a pro system because you're a gear head. Awesome, here you go. You want to make a day of it and don't really care about how long it takes to clean up?

well said. we all have different requirements and goals at the end of the day. if biab works for those its a great option as its cheap and easy as can be. cheers

 

[applescrap]

Portions of this thread play out in my shop on a daily basis. I've been around long enough to understand why people walk in looking to upgrade a ragtag 3 vessel system to a polished matching-kettle system.

<sidebar> I've been brewing for 13 years and switched to eBIAB about 4 years ago. I'm currently making the best beer of my life and I get it done in less than 4 hours.

I don't go into every conversation immediately cutting people down and telling them they are wasting their money to work harder and clean more vessels. However, I do inquire about their motivations. There are a lot of times where people want to simplify the brew day and I have to remind them that a 3 vessel HERMS system with two pumps is not necessarily the way to get there. A lot of times, the reason they think they have to use a traditional system is because they learned to brew with a neighbor and that's always how it's been done.

Yes, there is also a stigma with BIAB as some cut rate, half assed method of brewing. When I hear that nonsense, I pour a sample and point to the wall of blue ribbons.

My mission is to get people into the type of brewing system that best addresses their motivations even if I don't share them. You want to mimick a pro system because you're a gear head. Awesome, here you go. You want to make a day of it and don't really care about how long it takes to clean up?

Key points. And your knowledge really helped walk me through what I needed. And I am grateful for that and really happy with the direction it went. I am still very satisfied with my choices.

 

[MaaZeus]

in my case? you are 100% incorrect in your assumption.

my back simply will not cooperate with such a maneuver - there are days it's painful simply carrying an empty 10 gallon boil kettle up from the basement to the kitchen where I brew. prior to my back injury, I worked construction and had no issues packing heavy loads. those days are long gone, and some days even getting up from a chair can be a painfully debilitating ordeal that is challenging at best.

I sure hope the day never comes where you find yourself on the opposite side of an injury that leaves you whimpering every time you bend down to put on your shoes, carry out the trash, bring a 5lb bag of sugar up from downstairs, or have to stand still in place for more than 90 seconds. if that day ever does come, and I surely hope it never does, I suspect you'll have a change of heart on many of your noted assumptions and beliefs about other people and their preference for not wanting to do (or not do) things

My father has also ruines his back and arm joints by doing heavy labor in cold weather day in and out. I know and have seen what it is like to not be able to move and not lift things without pain. But I did say sicknesses like arithiris are a different story if you are not able to lift things.

 

[Gravelscratcher]

Really doesn’t matter how people choose to brew.
This whole thread is off the rails.
We all love beer and brewing, so let’s all group hug and move on. It’s like different denominations arguing...pointless really.

Edit:
Except for LODO brewers...they don’t count.

 

[NewJersey]

Portions of this thread play out in my shop on a daily basis. I've been around long enough to understand why people walk in looking to upgrade a ragtag 3 vessel system to a polished matching-kettle system.

<sidebar> I've been brewing for 13 years and switched to eBIAB about 4 years ago. I'm currently making the best beer of my life and I get it done in less than 4 hours.

I don't go into every conversation immediately cutting people down and telling them they are wasting their money to work harder and clean more vessels. However, I do inquire about their motivations. There are a lot of times where people want to simplify the brew day and I have to remind them that a 3 vessel HERMS system with two pumps is not necessarily the way to get there. A lot of times, the reason they think they have to use a traditional system is because they learned to brew with a neighbor and that's always how it's been done.

Yes, there is also a stigma with BIAB as some cut rate, half assed method of brewing. When I hear that nonsense, I pour a sample and point to the wall of blue ribbons.

My mission is to get people into the type of brewing system that best addresses their motivations even if I don't share them. You want to mimick a pro system because you're a gear head. Awesome, here you go. You want to make a day of it and don't really care about how long it takes to clean up?

exactly!
if you just wanna have 3 vessels or 5 or 10.... just admit you wanna goof around and overcomplicate just for the heck of it!

 

[applescrap]

Correct me if I am wrong but the modern pioneer of biab, the great pistol pat from Australia would likely agree with the title of this thread. There are lots of podcasts with him and even though he might not say it, he implies that this is the easiest, most convenient, and makes the most sense way to brew. Recently I have read that he sees no reason to sparge. Especially in light of grain prices. He argues that wasting any time for a dollar of grain makes no sense, iirc. He makes other points about that too. Agree or disagree his lifes work is worth checking out. He is the godfather of brew im the bag and I am happy to be looking into his stuff again and strongly reccomend that for any curious biab brewer. Btw in Australia they sell no chill wort in cubes iiac and you just return the cube. Sounds pretty cool.

 

[HTH1975]

What I’ve seen in this (and other threads) is that BIAB guys simplify the difference with 3-vessel systems as either separating the wort from the grain, or the grain from the wort. The problem with that oversimplification is that the two processes do not give the same results going into the boil kettle. I am able to get clear wort going into the boil kettle with a 3-vessel system. With BIAB, the wort is cloudy.

At each stage in the brewing process, the aim is to get clear wort. I like the challenge of doing this, it’s part of what makes the hobby interesting. The skill of it. BIAB does not involve that skill level imo. Do both processes produce good beer? Yes, but the hobby is more than just making beer, for me in any case.

 

[RM-MN]

What I’ve seen in this (and other threads) is that BIAB guys simplify the difference with 3-vessel systems as either separating the wort from the grain, or the grain from the wort. The problem with that oversimplification is that the two processes do not give the same results going into the boil kettle. I am able to get clear wort going into the boil kettle with a 3-vessel system. With BIAB, the wort is cloudy.

At each stage in the brewing process, the aim is to get clear wort. I like the challenge of doing this, it’s part of what makes the hobby interesting. The skill of it. BIAB does not involve that skill level imo. Do both processes produce good beer? Yes, but the hobby is more than just making beer, for me in any case.

With my brewing, clear beer is the intended result. Clear wort is not needed to get clear beer and indeed the two are not related.

 

[Bobby_M]

What I’ve seen in this (and other threads) is that BIAB guys simplify the difference with 3-vessel systems as either separating the wort from the grain, or the grain from the wort. The problem with that oversimplification is that the two processes do not give the same results going into the boil kettle. I am able to get clear wort going into the boil kettle with a 3-vessel system. With BIAB, the wort is cloudy.

At each stage in the brewing process, the aim is to get clear wort. I like the challenge of doing this, it’s part of what makes the hobby interesting. The skill of it. BIAB does not involve that skill level imo. Do both processes produce good beer? Yes, but the hobby is more than just making beer, for me in any case.

You can have reservations about cloudy wort if you want to but in the end it doesn't matter for beer clarity or quality. I recently picked up a 2nd place best of show for a Marzen that was brilliantly clear after only 3 weeks in the cold. If cloudy wort at the beginning of the boil was detrimental, I wouldn't settle for it.