Why Do US Brewers Try To Replicate Branded Beers ?

[johnnyboy1965]

Im not saying that there is anything wrong with cloning a beer, and if you can do it, congratulations.
What Im saying is "why would you want to do it"
Cost ... Im still not sure
Logistics.....Yes, I agree (but it must have been an acceptional beer)
Skill/Craft... I agree

 

[mojotele]

I make clone beers as I'm still trying to improve my process of making beer. Using a clone recipe tells me what to expect and, if the result is different, I can analyze the situation to determine what in my brewing process caused the difference. Improving quality is all about controlling the variables.

I've already started making SMaSH beers to learn hop flavors, and I will eventually start doing the same to learn malt flavors. At that point, I'll try making my own recipes.

EDIT: You just answered the question I had...

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

My aplogies, Jay, I mean no offense and you seem to be on edge with this topic but, I view a clone as an identical copy of an original. Grain for grain, freckle for freckle, flaw for flaw.

Producing something similar within the range is just that. But it is not a clone.

Granted that in the history of brewing it is doubtful that there is any combination that has not been tried. Yes, respect is politacally correct when you take a recipe, for anything, as a base but that does not constitute a clone if you change anything about that recipe. Even if it is simply the ratio.

With each recipe I brew, I take what I have on hand and my experience plus some research and devise what I think is an acceptible combination. Occasionally, the result is a product that is uncannily similar to a packaged product despite having no prior knowledge of the packaged composition. This, is not a clone. This is chance.

My two cents.

 

[brewagentjay]

Johnny I hear you .... In your brain your thinking why bother?....In my brain I'm thinking why not?

Cloning just seems like a natural process to start.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I use commercial beers as a base line. When I start crafting a beer, I start by making a clone recipe, then change what I think I want to change about the beer. It is how my artistic mind works. I have to be grounded in reality for the changes I am making to make sense.

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Johnny I hear you .... In your brain your thinking why bother?....In my brain I'm thinking why not?

Cloning just seems like a natural process to start.

I agree...you do have to have a base linre to start...
Malted Barley, Hops, Water , Yeast.
The combinations are endless. Now its up to you.

 

[Synovia]

Why would any HB want to clone a beer.

Because, contrary to the whole "indie-rock wanting to be different from everyone else, everything mainstream sucks" mentality, there are breweries out there that make much better beer than your or I.

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Because, contrary to the whole "indie-rock wanting to be different from everyone else, everything mainstream sucks" mentality, there are breweries out there that make much better beer than your or I.

NO NO NO they dont.. They make a product that they can sell. None of my beers have ever, or will be sold

 

[heywolfie1015]

Speaking to the cost issue, if you brew the right kind of beer, it really can be more cost effective. My buddy loves Avery beers, so he and I sat down and figured out a clone of The Reverend (see my recipes). When all is said and done, it tastes pretty close and we have the pride of ownership over it, so that goes to the craft/skill aspect everyone else talked about. However, the cost savings is also just huge. Assuming $5.99 per bomber of The Rev, we made the equivalent of $190 worth of beer...all for $60.

Some might respond that you have to also consider the time and equipment costs, but (a) time spent brewing is enjoyable, so I don't view it as a "cost"; and (b) I paid back my equipment costs a few batches ago by the overall savings from brewing in large batches.

I'm not saying brewing a clone will always end up costing you less, but if it is something you really enjoy and it is an expensive style of beer, then cost comes into play.

Finally, examining cloning overall, I think you have to look at why some people brew. Many do it as a creative outlet, a way to experiment and produce never before seen beers. Others (like myself) do it in order to have a ready supply of really tasty beer that we feel proud to drink and serve. With that mindset, cloning a beer makes sense because it justifies why you do this hobby. Going with a tried and true recipe supplies you with beer you know you like and lets you experiment with the next batch.

 

[l1ranger]

simply put - because i want to make a beer that is close to that original beer.

of course there's a ton of reasons why any individual might want to do that. these reasons my or may not be acceptable or understood by you, but they are to that individual.

its homebrew. its my beer, my way, for my reasons.

I've only done 3 batches - my second was an Old Speckled Hen clone.
for some insight as to why.
the girlfriend likes OSH, so I thought I'd make her something she'd enjoy. I also like it.
I rarely find OSH around here, and when I do, its in clear glass and often not good b/c of it(skunked).
Now I've got a foundation to work from. If the recipe is good, I'll use it again. if it needs some tweaking, I'll change somethign and see how it works. repeat ad nauseum until I've got it nailed down where I want it.
Being new to brewing, I've got to start somewhere. clones, ingredient kits, and others recipes are the best place to start. As experience grows, I'll learn more and more about he process and ingredients and start doing my own thing, but even then, the mood will likely strike me to make a clone, and then 'improve' it, atleast in my eyes.

 

[Synovia]

NO NO NO they dont.. They make a product that they can sell. None of my beers have ever, or will be sold

If you think your beer is better than every commercial beer, you are severely deluding yourself.

 

[heywolfie1015]

NO NO NO they dont.. They make a product that they can sell. None of my beers have ever, or will be sold

There is absolutely no way at least one commercial brewery out there makes a better beer than you? C'mon, that's just silly. I've had plenty of amazing home brews, but I've had just as many amazing commercial beers. Just because someone makes a living out of selling a product doesn't mean the product is automatically bad or inferior.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I think that many take the creators value of a product out of subjective context.

Rogue for instance. By their labels they assert that they make the best beer in the world. I, for one, find them to be un-impressive. So, do I subjectively think that I can brew better beer than Rogue? You bet your ass I do because I have yet to have anything by Rogue that I want two of.

So, is it so wrong for a creator to be convinced that their product is better than what is on market? Certainly not. It's the core to which capitalism thrives.

 

[Houblon]

Back when I first started brewing I tried a number of clones but soon realized that some of the beers tasted better(more hops/richer malt) than the real thing. So today I only work on 1 clone houblon chouffe, the cost of having real houblon on hand would be too much and the clone is so damn close & cheap to make.

The other beers I brew are made for our taste and if theres a special or unique beer we'll buy a case.

 

[johnnyboy1965]

If you think your beer is better than every commercial beer, you are severely deluding yourself.

My HB is a lot better than any beer that is served in any pub in the West Mids.
That is a fact. I will nver be able to get the consistancy right as I only brew 5 gls at a time. I dont want to. The next brew will be totaly different.

 

[gtpro]

because if you start with a great recipe and mediocre skills, you can still produce a good beer.

 

[brewagentjay]

I'm gonna have to agree with my english friend and Gila on this one. It's called Pride....

Should be proud of your beer and if you like it better than commerical then it is better at least to you....
:rockin:

 

[heywolfie1015]

So, is it so wrong for a creator to be convinced that their product is better than what is on market? Certainly. It's the core to which capitalism thrives.

"Wrong?" Absolutely not. However, is it a bit much to 100% foreclose the possibility that there might be something better out there? I tend to think so.

Remember also that "best" to you is not necessarily "best" to someone else. You can be as proud of your beer as you like; we wouldn't be on this board if we weren't. But keeping an open mind on commercial products allows you to critique your own product and compare it to what is popular with the consuming public. Just because it's for sale doesn't mean it's bad. If Sierra Nevada hadn't taken a chance in the 70s and 80s and made a better beer, most of us would still be forced to swill BMC without other options today. And I would venture a guess that SN is still one of the best American Pale Ales in the country, hands down.

 

[Homercidal]

I have done clones, because, starting out, I want to perfect my system and be able to brew what I want. Part of that is brewing a beer to a particular style or commercial beer. It is a challenge to get the amount of the right types of hops to balance the malt, etc.

YOU may not have any good beer near you, but in Michigan, there are several breweries that are making EXCELLENT beer. Bells, Founders, New Holland, Arcadia, Right Brain (you'd like these guys). I'm not even touching the SE part of Michigan where there are many more great breweries.

As far as cost, when I went to AG I compared the cost of 48 bottles of Bell's Two Hearted IPA to the ingredients list for making a similar beer. $1.50 per bottle of Bells (8x 6 packs, because that's how I can get it) versus $.50 per bottle of my own. I'm saving $1 per bottle, or $48 per batch to make it myself. How am I not saving money?

 

[MrInternet]

My HB is a lot better than any beer that is served in any pub in the West Mids.
That is a fact. I will nver be able to get the consistancy right as I only brew 5 gls at a time. I dont want to. The next brew will be totaly different.

Wow. It must suck hardcore to live in such a beer desert. I can drive 10 minutes in any direction and find local brew on tap that puts to shame anything I will likely EVER make. If I honestly thought that every batch of beer I made was better than ANY commercial brewery, I would probably quit homebrewing... at that point, Beer is either such a simple endeavor that I've totally conquered it, or I'll never be able to enjoy another commercial brew in my life, which is a horrifying thought.

Or.... you could just have fallen prey to the mentality that many HB'ers have, which is that their beer is ACTUALLY better than any commercial. It might taste better to you, but that doesn't make it a "fact" that it's ACTUALLY better. Saying I can brew something that tastes better than Rolling Rock or Beck's is one thing... saying that I can walk into a bar with 200 beers on tap and still think my HB is superior... well, I'd have to agree that is likely delusion.

I've found that many HB'ers think far too highly of their beer... or at least, more highly than its quality should give them reason to think. It's natural with the products of love and labor... we think too highly of our own kids, our own house, things that we've made, etc. That doesn't make it fact...

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

And I would venture a guess that SN is still one of the best American Pale Ales in the country, hands down.

Thus proof that best and better is subjective of the beholder.

Of all the Pale ales on market, my subjective assertion is that the SN offering is the worst.

So who is right? Neither of us and both of us.

Because what is "best" to the individual is all that matters.

 

[Synovia]

My HB is a lot better than any beer that is served in any pub in the West Mids.
That is a fact. I will nver be able to get the consistancy right as I only brew 5 gls at a time. I dont want to. The next brew will be totaly different.

How do you know its fact, and not just your personal opinion? Have you done double blind testing?


Chances are, you're letting your preconceptions influence your taste.

 

[brewagentjay]

It's a matter of pride....how do you know your the best at something you do? YOU JUST KNOW IT.....Kinda like Love...

I say have pride in your beer....someday I hope to be calling mine the best....

 

[Synovia]

It's a matter of pride....how do you know your the best at something you do? YOU JUST KNOW IT.....Kinda like Love...

I say have pride in your beer....someday I hope to be calling mine the best....

You can have pride in your beer, and not be delusional.


I make good beer and I'm proud of that. There are many breweries that make better.

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Long post coming up....
First somre background information on myself.
Im a chef, 45 years old and been cooking since the age of 15. Ive worked in the "Executive" role of most 3* Michelin restuarants throughout Europe. I retired last year. I now work(part time) as a Judge for the BCF ( British Culinary Federation)( Google my name).
Sorry, Ive got to go now TBC

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Regardless of qualifications, number of stars, or units sold per annum. It ALL still comes to personal preference.

I have sat to table to sup fair from world renowned chefs and found the food to be absolute crap. Then gone home to have a PB&J that I thought was absolutely divine.

Is it delusional for one to prefer Skippys and welches over Beluga and Foi Gras?

Only by the onlooker who asserts that a personal opinion, pre-concieved or not, is fallable.

 

[Yooper]

You can have pride in your beer, and not be delusional.


I make good beer and I'm proud of that. There are many breweries that make better.

My beer is pretty good. I have yet to say that any of them are perfect. Either I'm not that good of a brewer, or I'm able to maintain subjectivity. I don't think there IS a perfect beer, of any style. Some of my beers have pleased me very much, and I'm proud of them. I've only made one batch that I didn't like. That doesn't make me a better brewer than the commercial brewers, though.

I've had some mediocre commercial beers, some awful commercial beers, and some fantastic commercial beers. My beer is better than the mediocre and the awful. It's better than many of the "good" beers. But to say that it's better than any commercial beers is ludicrious.

I've had some bad homebrew, too. People who have entered contests with their beer who think it's wonderful must be very disappointed in their scores. Most homebrewers think their beer would score a 45, and if often scores a 25. It doesn't matter, though, as long as they love it. I think many homebrewers think more highly of their beer than I would.

 

[heywolfie1015]

Because what is "best" to the individual is all that matters.

Right, and that shows why the OP's dismissiveness toward clone brewers should be tempered a bit. If you think a certain commercial brand is the best you've tasted, knock yourself out trying to brew it at home, and enjoy the process.

 

[Synovia]

Regardless of qualifications, number of stars, or units sold per annum. It ALL still comes to personal preference.

No, it doesn't.

Personal Preference is personal preference. Saying "I like my homebrew better" is completely different than saying "Its a fact that my homebrew IS better beer".

One is a subjective thing. The other involves blind taste tests by qualified judges of the style.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

So if you find a beer you like to drink (bottle/pub/whatever) is it not better to drink that beer than try to replicate it ?

Not for me because I don't buy beer. I drink what I brew and I brew what I drink. But my 'cloning' doesn't fit (for example) GMB's definition of cloning...they're more like 'inspired by' brews.